Being without sin
- Thread starter MahogonySnail
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
S
When a man walks in moral light, that does not give him access to God's understanding, but if he lets God's light enter in, that will give him understanding and if he walks in that light he will get wisdom from above. We can only get wisdom from above when we lack it, if we are willing to walk in God's light by faith and not lean on our own understanding / Jm 1:5-8. Unfortunately, many believers walk in their own understanding that comes through moral light and credit God when God had nothing to do with it.
They live in a system of what is right and wrong based on the norms and standards of their moral conscience, instead of living by the law of faith / Rom 3:27 in God's word that discerns between light and darkness (a) good and evil (b) and life and death (c). The law of the moral conscience has no power to give them those things that come from God's light. Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father of lights / Jm 1:17. There is a righteousness associated with the moral law of the conscience but that righteousness comes from a good and moral man and not from God above.
There is a salvation that comes from the understanding of a person who walks in moral light who has never been transformed and renewed in the spirit of their mind / Eph 4:23,24. They don't walk in moral darkness but they don't walk in the light of God's word that reveals God as light, in whom is no darkness nor shadow of turning. People that live in moral light can change because of their own understanding but those that live in God's light do not change because they live in the understanding that God has given them, who is immutable and changes not / Heb 6:17,18, Mal 3:6.
(a) 1Th 5:5, 1Pt 2:9, 1Jn 2:8
(b) 3Jn 1:11, 1Pt 3:11, Heb 5:14
(c) Jn 5:24, 1Jn 3:14, 2Tim 1:10, Rom 8:6
They live in a system of what is right and wrong based on the norms and standards of their moral conscience, instead of living by the law of faith / Rom 3:27 in God's word that discerns between light and darkness (a) good and evil (b) and life and death (c). The law of the moral conscience has no power to give them those things that come from God's light. Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father of lights / Jm 1:17. There is a righteousness associated with the moral law of the conscience but that righteousness comes from a good and moral man and not from God above.
There is a salvation that comes from the understanding of a person who walks in moral light who has never been transformed and renewed in the spirit of their mind / Eph 4:23,24. They don't walk in moral darkness but they don't walk in the light of God's word that reveals God as light, in whom is no darkness nor shadow of turning. People that live in moral light can change because of their own understanding but those that live in God's light do not change because they live in the understanding that God has given them, who is immutable and changes not / Heb 6:17,18, Mal 3:6.
(a) 1Th 5:5, 1Pt 2:9, 1Jn 2:8
(b) 3Jn 1:11, 1Pt 3:11, Heb 5:14
(c) Jn 5:24, 1Jn 3:14, 2Tim 1:10, Rom 8:6
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved(John 3:19-20).
People of the world make excuses for why they cannot do good all the time and that is because they really do not want to do good all the time.They use the excuse we are only human.People are born homosexual.
People have a choice so they can choose the good if the want.The problem is that the world cannot take the strain of temptation and will cave in from time to time but there is no excuse because they can do good all the time by being a Christian led by the Spirit.
The sad thing is a lot of people who claim to be with Christ also make excuses for why they cannot be good all the time which should not be so.
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh(Galatians 5:16).
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God(1 John 3:9).
The Bible plainly states that if you are led of the Spirit you cannot sin.If you are born of God you do not commit sin.
A person can live a sinless life if they allow the Holy Spirit to lead them.
I would like to clear up a controversy that some people believe that is you live for Christ you are not under the law as if they do not have to live a sinless life.You have to obey the law and Paul said we do not do away with the law but we establish the law.We have to obey the law and we have to allow the Spirit to lead us so that we live a sinless life like Christ.
Do not be deceived you can live sinless life.
The truth is everybody that has ever been born wants to be a Christian.The problem is some people do not realize it yet but when they realize they made a mistake they will want to be a Christian then but it will be too late.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law(Galatians 5:18).
The Bible says that if you are led of the Spirit you are not under the law.
A Spirit led life will not sin.
The reason a person is not under the law if they are led of the Spirit is because a Spirit led life does nothing wrong so the law cannot touch them for prosecution because they are not doing anything wrong.
It does not mean we do not have to obey the law it means that if we are led of the Spirit we are sinning so the law cannot touch us for prosecution because we are not doing anything wrong.
The sad thing is there are millions of people who claim to be a Christian that are not led of the Spirit so they are still under the law because a person that is not led of the Spirit is still under the law because you cannot totally overcome the flesh without the Spirit.
The purpose of Calvary is so that we could have the Spirit to act like Christ so that we can be right with God to make it to heaven.
The blood of Christ gets us to the Spirit.
In the Old Testament the blood of bulls and goats could never completely take away sins so they could not receive the Holy Spirit.
In the New Testament are sins are completely removed by the blood of Christ causing us to be able to receive the Spirit and act like Christ to be right with God.
It is all about living a sinless lifestyle that gives you fellowship with God.It is all about receiving the Spirit to act like Christ to be right with God.The blood of Christ removing our sins completely causes us to receive the Spirit.It has all been about having the Spirit to be right with God.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus(1 Timothy 2:5)
The Bible says the mediator between God and men is the man Christ Jesus.The man Christ Jesus is our savior for only a sinless man can approach a holy God on mankind's behalf.No man could do this so God manifest Himself in the flesh and became that sinless man to take away our sins.God reconciled sinful mankind back to Himself in the person of Jesus Christ fully God and fully man in harmoney.
When a person receives the Spirit then they are like the man Christ Jesus,God and person in harmony.
Like Jesus said that He wants us to be one with the Father as He is one with the Father.
It is all about having the Spirit and a person can live a sinless life.
Matt
20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved(John 3:19-20).
People of the world make excuses for why they cannot do good all the time and that is because they really do not want to do good all the time.They use the excuse we are only human.People are born homosexual.
People have a choice so they can choose the good if the want.The problem is that the world cannot take the strain of temptation and will cave in from time to time but there is no excuse because they can do good all the time by being a Christian led by the Spirit.
The sad thing is a lot of people who claim to be with Christ also make excuses for why they cannot be good all the time which should not be so.
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh(Galatians 5:16).
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God(1 John 3:9).
The Bible plainly states that if you are led of the Spirit you cannot sin.If you are born of God you do not commit sin.
A person can live a sinless life if they allow the Holy Spirit to lead them.
I would like to clear up a controversy that some people believe that is you live for Christ you are not under the law as if they do not have to live a sinless life.You have to obey the law and Paul said we do not do away with the law but we establish the law.We have to obey the law and we have to allow the Spirit to lead us so that we live a sinless life like Christ.
Do not be deceived you can live sinless life.
The truth is everybody that has ever been born wants to be a Christian.The problem is some people do not realize it yet but when they realize they made a mistake they will want to be a Christian then but it will be too late.
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law(Galatians 5:18).
The Bible says that if you are led of the Spirit you are not under the law.
A Spirit led life will not sin.
The reason a person is not under the law if they are led of the Spirit is because a Spirit led life does nothing wrong so the law cannot touch them for prosecution because they are not doing anything wrong.
It does not mean we do not have to obey the law it means that if we are led of the Spirit we are sinning so the law cannot touch us for prosecution because we are not doing anything wrong.
The sad thing is there are millions of people who claim to be a Christian that are not led of the Spirit so they are still under the law because a person that is not led of the Spirit is still under the law because you cannot totally overcome the flesh without the Spirit.
The purpose of Calvary is so that we could have the Spirit to act like Christ so that we can be right with God to make it to heaven.
The blood of Christ gets us to the Spirit.
In the Old Testament the blood of bulls and goats could never completely take away sins so they could not receive the Holy Spirit.
In the New Testament are sins are completely removed by the blood of Christ causing us to be able to receive the Spirit and act like Christ to be right with God.
It is all about living a sinless lifestyle that gives you fellowship with God.It is all about receiving the Spirit to act like Christ to be right with God.The blood of Christ removing our sins completely causes us to receive the Spirit.It has all been about having the Spirit to be right with God.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus(1 Timothy 2:5)
The Bible says the mediator between God and men is the man Christ Jesus.The man Christ Jesus is our savior for only a sinless man can approach a holy God on mankind's behalf.No man could do this so God manifest Himself in the flesh and became that sinless man to take away our sins.God reconciled sinful mankind back to Himself in the person of Jesus Christ fully God and fully man in harmoney.
When a person receives the Spirit then they are like the man Christ Jesus,God and person in harmony.
Like Jesus said that He wants us to be one with the Father as He is one with the Father.
It is all about having the Spirit and a person can live a sinless life.
Matt
Hey Phil, don't know if you had time to look at the blog I linked to or not, but as I said, it is incomplete. I have done a similar study of the use of soteria (salvation) and it's derivative forms in the NT and have been just as unconvinced about our present state of salvation through this study.
Likewise, there are a number of things that we can say we are being saved from as a result of God's grace, but my concern is to understand what Christ and His disciples understood when they made reference to salvation. Again and again without deviation scripture seems to ultimately have in mind the second death as the final enemy from which we are saved. From the very beginning, in fact, the stated enemy has always been death- "In the day that you eat of it you will surely die". Since the immortality of the soul became a widely accepted doctrine in the post-Apostolic era (it certainly is not a Hebrew or Apostolic idea) it has been increasingly difficult to maintain the narrower understanding of salvation afforded by scripture (alone).
As for the have been/are being/will be saved statement....where does scripture say that we have been (past tense) saved? It doesn't, as my blog spells out rather tediously. Are being saved? From what...since you point to sanctification, then you must mean being saved from sinning. Again, scripture never says we are being saved (passive progressive) from sinning; it commands us to stop sinning (not in our own strength, but not without it either). Will be saved...I obviously agree with this.
Now let's just wait and see how badly I get hammered for this....
Likewise, there are a number of things that we can say we are being saved from as a result of God's grace, but my concern is to understand what Christ and His disciples understood when they made reference to salvation. Again and again without deviation scripture seems to ultimately have in mind the second death as the final enemy from which we are saved. From the very beginning, in fact, the stated enemy has always been death- "In the day that you eat of it you will surely die". Since the immortality of the soul became a widely accepted doctrine in the post-Apostolic era (it certainly is not a Hebrew or Apostolic idea) it has been increasingly difficult to maintain the narrower understanding of salvation afforded by scripture (alone).
As for the have been/are being/will be saved statement....where does scripture say that we have been (past tense) saved? It doesn't, as my blog spells out rather tediously. Are being saved? From what...since you point to sanctification, then you must mean being saved from sinning. Again, scripture never says we are being saved (passive progressive) from sinning; it commands us to stop sinning (not in our own strength, but not without it either). Will be saved...I obviously agree with this.
Now let's just wait and see how badly I get hammered for this....
And within the camp of Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone) there is not a narrow sense of Salvation. you obviously did not read my post correctly salvation (soteriology) is an umbrella term.
When you say the Apostle never had this understanding, I am concerned about you understanding of Scripture, for until after Jesus' resurrection they still had the Jewish Apocalyptic notion of Messiah, Jesus opened their eyes and explained it to them.. please read Acts.
The new Testament is Eschatalogical in its Kingdom thought, even an elementary reading of Paul's epistles will enlighten this to you. However, although this was inaugurated it has yet to be consumated, including soteriology).
Read John 3,
Please read Ephesians 2:1-10 very carefully.
And yes the soul of the believer will be with God for all eternity
. I really don't know where you get you soteriology from.Anyhow have a good night
S
It's easy to love people if you really want to. You do it the same way Christ did, you lay your life down. Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it / Eph 5:25.
Greater love has no man than this that he lay his life down for his friends / Jn 15:13. The Spirit can't do that for you either, you have to lay your own life down.
You know how you love people, you lay your life down whether you feel like it or not, whether it's convenient or not and you never do it for your sake. Love will even take the blame for another's guilt, isn't that what Christ did on the cross for you and me when He laid His life down and took our place on the cross and took our blame?
That's the kind of love that comes from the cross. If you want to love your enemies, be good to them. You don't have to fellowship with them but you can be good to them.
Greater love has no man than this that he lay his life down for his friends / Jn 15:13. The Spirit can't do that for you either, you have to lay your own life down.
You know how you love people, you lay your life down whether you feel like it or not, whether it's convenient or not and you never do it for your sake. Love will even take the blame for another's guilt, isn't that what Christ did on the cross for you and me when He laid His life down and took our place on the cross and took our blame?
That's the kind of love that comes from the cross. If you want to love your enemies, be good to them. You don't have to fellowship with them but you can be good to them.
Hi Distinctive,
Just read your essay online, infact, I have read it twice. You certainly are trying to put forth an argument. Not a very good one I might add, although you have admitted it is not finished. Once you have finished, it may be more persuasive, of course you will circulate your, new perspective on soteriology to your peers.
You are trying to infer through the lack of a greek word, or tense, that we are not saved until the the day of the Lord. well, The new Testament Scripture's suggests that your hypotheses is flawed, it would be like saying the trinity does not exist, it is not in the bible.
I am sure it will be a good read when you are finished writing. Of course any good essay will show how it is correct and everyone else is wrong. I am sure you will try this.
And if nothing else it is a good way to advertise your blog
Kind regards
Phil
Just read your essay online, infact, I have read it twice. You certainly are trying to put forth an argument. Not a very good one I might add, although you have admitted it is not finished. Once you have finished, it may be more persuasive, of course you will circulate your, new perspective on soteriology to your peers.
You are trying to infer through the lack of a greek word, or tense, that we are not saved until the the day of the Lord. well, The new Testament Scripture's suggests that your hypotheses is flawed, it would be like saying the trinity does not exist, it is not in the bible.
I am sure it will be a good read when you are finished writing. Of course any good essay will show how it is correct and everyone else is wrong. I am sure you will try this.
And if nothing else it is a good way to advertise your blog
Kind regards
Phil
on a side note, this topic is not about salvation. We don't need to be without sin to be saved. Holiness and perfection are to do with the state of the heart towards God, and that being whilst clothed in Christ's righteousness not our own.
Being without sin has benefits for a more secure walk with God (for the sinless person the evil one cannot touch him), greater confidence in our prayers (a clear conscience) and resultant increased faith = greater and faster answers to prayer, and more answered prayers since God won't hear us if we are in sin, greater peace of mind and greater love (love is not made perfect in anyone who fears due to their persistent sinfulness), and greater testimony and witness towards the unsaved (nothing turns an unbeliever off Christ more than a Christian who is shown to be a sinner).
Being without sin has benefits for a more secure walk with God (for the sinless person the evil one cannot touch him), greater confidence in our prayers (a clear conscience) and resultant increased faith = greater and faster answers to prayer, and more answered prayers since God won't hear us if we are in sin, greater peace of mind and greater love (love is not made perfect in anyone who fears due to their persistent sinfulness), and greater testimony and witness towards the unsaved (nothing turns an unbeliever off Christ more than a Christian who is shown to be a sinner).
L
Hi Distinctive,
Just read your essay online, infact, I have read it twice. You certainly are trying to put forth an argument. Not a very good one I might add, although you have admitted it is not finished. Once you have finished, it may be more persuasive, of course you will circulate your, new perspective on soteriology to your peers.
You are trying to infer through the lack of a greek word, or tense, that we are not saved until the the day of the Lord. well, The new Testament Scripture's suggests that your hypotheses is flawed, it would be like saying the trinity does not exist, it is not in the bible.
I am sure it will be a good read when you are finished writing. Of course any good essay will show how it is correct and everyone else is wrong. I am sure you will try this.
And if nothing else it is a good way to advertise your blog
Kind regards
Phil
Just read your essay online, infact, I have read it twice. You certainly are trying to put forth an argument. Not a very good one I might add, although you have admitted it is not finished. Once you have finished, it may be more persuasive, of course you will circulate your, new perspective on soteriology to your peers.
You are trying to infer through the lack of a greek word, or tense, that we are not saved until the the day of the Lord. well, The new Testament Scripture's suggests that your hypotheses is flawed, it would be like saying the trinity does not exist, it is not in the bible.
I am sure it will be a good read when you are finished writing. Of course any good essay will show how it is correct and everyone else is wrong. I am sure you will try this.
And if nothing else it is a good way to advertise your blog
Kind regards
Phil
Hey Phil, don't know if you had time to look at the blog I linked to or not, but as I said, it is incomplete. I have done a similar study of the use of soteria (salvation) and it's derivative forms in the NT and have been just as unconvinced about our present state of salvation through this study.
Likewise, there are a number of things that we can say we are being saved from as a result of God's grace, but my concern is to understand what Christ and His disciples understood when they made reference to salvation. Again and again without deviation scripture seems to ultimately have in mind the second death as the final enemy from which we are saved. From the very beginning, in fact, the stated enemy has always been death- "In the day that you eat of it you will surely die". Since the immortality of the soul became a widely accepted doctrine in the post-Apostolic era (it certainly is not a Hebrew or Apostolic idea) it has been increasingly difficult to maintain the narrower understanding of salvation afforded by scripture (alone).
As for the have been/are being/will be saved statement....where does scripture say that we have been (past tense) saved? It doesn't, as my blog spells out rather tediously. Are being saved? From what...since you point to sanctification, then you must mean being saved from sinning. Again, scripture never says we are being saved (passive progressive) from sinning; it commands us to stop sinning (not in our own strength, but not without it either). Will be saved...I obviously agree with this.
Now let's just wait and see how badly I get hammered for this....
Likewise, there are a number of things that we can say we are being saved from as a result of God's grace, but my concern is to understand what Christ and His disciples understood when they made reference to salvation. Again and again without deviation scripture seems to ultimately have in mind the second death as the final enemy from which we are saved. From the very beginning, in fact, the stated enemy has always been death- "In the day that you eat of it you will surely die". Since the immortality of the soul became a widely accepted doctrine in the post-Apostolic era (it certainly is not a Hebrew or Apostolic idea) it has been increasingly difficult to maintain the narrower understanding of salvation afforded by scripture (alone).
As for the have been/are being/will be saved statement....where does scripture say that we have been (past tense) saved? It doesn't, as my blog spells out rather tediously. Are being saved? From what...since you point to sanctification, then you must mean being saved from sinning. Again, scripture never says we are being saved (passive progressive) from sinning; it commands us to stop sinning (not in our own strength, but not without it either). Will be saved...I obviously agree with this.
Now let's just wait and see how badly I get hammered for this....
If he is SDA, then why would even bother reinventing the wheel of their theology.
Thanks for that Lauren, I just asumed he was coming in some form of Evangelical stance (but he is trying to give the impression that he has discovered something new).
Phil
Ive had this happen many times in my life, but this has been the most faith affected moment.
I see more in faith because my fear of failing has been removed.
Some will still argue about wether we sin or not.
I see now it is not that we still sin, we still do. It is that we are free of sin, sin no longer holds us.
And yes as Paul said it does not give us a free pass to commit any sin.
It simply means that we live under grace, that sin no longer convicts us.
We died in the flesh with Jesus, and rose again with him.
No longer of the world, but still living in it.
God bless, pickles
Ps, still and always weak unless I rest in Jesus. Thankyou Jesus!
I see more in faith because my fear of failing has been removed.
Some will still argue about wether we sin or not.
I see now it is not that we still sin, we still do. It is that we are free of sin, sin no longer holds us.
And yes as Paul said it does not give us a free pass to commit any sin.
It simply means that we live under grace, that sin no longer convicts us.
We died in the flesh with Jesus, and rose again with him.
No longer of the world, but still living in it.
God bless, pickles
Ps, still and always weak unless I rest in Jesus. Thankyou Jesus!
The scripture: we piped you a tune and you did not dance, we sang you a durge and you did not mourn.:
Truelly comes to mind.
But all of us must remember that we see and know that which has been revieled to us in Jesus, by Our Father, through the Holy Spirit.
That which is decided, and taught, in his timing.
God bless, pickles
Truelly comes to mind.
But all of us must remember that we see and know that which has been revieled to us in Jesus, by Our Father, through the Holy Spirit.
That which is decided, and taught, in his timing.
God bless, pickles
john wrote that we are being perfected in.....................love.
he went on to say that perfect love cast out....................fear.
because fear has expectation of judgment.
the one abiding attribute of god is that he is love. of us it is said that we love. only of god is it said that he is love,
as we grow in god, in jesus christ, it is in love, or it is not truly in him at all.
he went on to say that perfect love cast out....................fear.
because fear has expectation of judgment.
the one abiding attribute of god is that he is love. of us it is said that we love. only of god is it said that he is love,
as we grow in god, in jesus christ, it is in love, or it is not truly in him at all.