When Is The Actual Sabbath?

Jayoish · Apr 17, 2016

Can you please provide proof to your statement? The Bible states otherwise!!!

In Genesis verses 1-3 ,it state that on the 7th day GOD rested and sanctified that day

Genesis 2:
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Then it say in verses 4-5 that after he had did this blue print of the earth he was creating that there were not a man to till the ground, yet. If there was not a man to till the ground when GOD blessed the 7th day and sanctified it, then there were no JEW; therefore, it can not be the Jew's Sabbath, but GOD's Sabbath. Your statement is a myth!!!! It is the Lord's Sabbath and all men of the earth has to remember it and keep it holy.

Genesis 2:
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

So you error in your thinking of this!!!

Shalom,

Jayoish

Jayoish · Apr 17, 2016

sparkman said:

I would recommend reading Sabbath in Christ by Dale Ratzlaff.

I was a former Sabbathkeeper, as a member of Worldwide Church of God (Armstrongism), for over a decade.

My conviction is that the Sabbath is not applicable per Colossians 2:16-17. In addition, Sabbath-breaking was not mentioned on any of the sin lists of the Gentiles. In addition, the Sabbath was a sign of the Old Covenant between God and Israel and not God and mankind, therefore it never was applicable to those who were not under the Old Covenant.

SDAs spend a lot of effort claiming that the weekly Sabbath isn't mentioned in Colossians 2:16-17 but they cannot prove it. The word Sabbath is sabbaton, which has a weekly context. Indeed, it is translated "week" eight times in the NT. For example, mia ton sabbaton means "first day of the week" where mia means one and sabbaton means week.

One basic question that should be asked is whether the Old Covenant is in effect, and whether the Sabbath, festivals, and clean/unclean meat laws are moral in nature, or were part of the "boundary markers" which separated ancient Israel from the Gentile nations around it.

This is a very long discussion, though, and usually those in the discussion have already made their minds up. Unless they are claiming that the Sabbath is a requirement for salvation, and everyone else is unsaved, I typically won't waste the time explaining the problems with their position. Most Sabbath keepers in the chat room don't make such claims, but there are cultic individuals which make such claims (Armstrongites for example).

For every point the Sabbathkeepers make, a counter-point can be made.

I would recommend this video to understand the Abrahamic, Old, and New Covenant, and why the Sabbath is included in Colossians 2:16-17. Also, is the Ten Commandments a separate group of laws which are still applicable, while the Book of the Covenant is not applicable?

It is based somewhat on the "Sabbath in Christ" book by Dale Ratzlaff. Dale is a former SDA pastor and teacher. I highly recommend the book as well. I don't agree with one minor point Dale makes, but I agree with the overall thesis.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKnzCuBYVJm5aePMh-rTUtoi2-QNiKDs2

At any rate, individuals should follow their own conscience on the issue of days, and I respect the willingness of Sabbathkeepers to obey God in what they understand to be true, whether I agree or not. Hopefully all Christians have this spirit. Read Romans 14 regarding these issues of differences of opinions on days and food.

I would recommend reading the Bible, the only true source of GOD's word.

Shalom,

Jayoish

Jayoish · Apr 17, 2016

resurrection33 said:

Yes he did, but that doesn't change the day of the Sabbath! What all of you fail to realize is when you say Sabbath you are referencing to the 7th day. So yes the 7th day was made for us, not us for it! Therefore, we must rest in it, not any other day. I

As I previously posted, GOD had rested on the 7th day and sanctified it before man was made. When he created his blue print of what he was going to do, he already decided that the 7th day will his day of rest and he had sanctified it. Man was not around; therefore, the Sabbath was created for man, it was created first before man!!!!

Genesis 2:
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

Shalom,

Jayoish

Jayoish · Apr 17, 2016

tanakh said:

Agreed and the feast day, the High Sabbath do!

Shalom,

Jayoish

Jayoish · Apr 17, 2016

santuzza said:

Our Saturday is the 7th day, then that is all you need to know. Sunday is not the 7th day, it is the first ay of the week!!!!!!!!

Shalom,

Jayoish

Jayoish · Apr 17, 2016

TMS said:

You do error in your information here! Jesus did not die on Friday and rose on Sunday. I ask you to prove this statement with scripture. Because in the bible states Jesus states he will be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights. And it is impossible to get 3 days and 3 night from Friday night to Sunday morning, no matter which math you use!!!!!

Matthew 12:
38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Shalom,

Jayoish

Jayoish · Apr 17, 2016

G

resurrection33 said:

So what you guys are not Jews, the Bible state that when a stranger (other nation) take on the GOD of Israel, then the stranger has to obey his laws, statues and commandments. GOD actually states in the Bible for the stranger or eunuch to do the same as Israel.

Genesis 12:
48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Isaiah 14:
1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

Isaiah 56:
Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

Roman 1:
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Roman 10:
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Roman 3:
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

So as you can see what is good for the Jew is also good for other nations!!! God promise to other nation who want him to be their GOD is that if they keep his Sabbath, he will give a place in his walls for their sons and daughters and they will not be cut off. You must keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it and take hold of his covenant in order to be a part of him.

For you to make this statement, then you are saying you do not want to be a part of GOD!!!

You can't have it both ways, you are going to be saved and he is your GOD and yall are his people, but the Sabbath was given to the JEWS not us!!!

Shalom,

Jayoish

Jayoish · Apr 17, 2016

prove-all said:

Does God care ?

Both houses of Israel were sent into national punishment and banishment
from the Holy Land because they broke God’s Sabbath(s)!

(Jeremiah 29:10), many of the house of Judah returned to the Holy Land
to rebuild the temple, and restore the worship there

The Prophet Nehemiah tells why they had been driven into captive slavery
70 years before (Nehemiah 13:15-18).

The house of Judah was without excuse. They had been warned by the prophets.

“Thus saith the Eternal; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day
neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers…
(Jeremiah 17:21-22, 27).

The house of Judah did not heed it.And burned the house of the Eternal, and the king’s house;
and all the houses of Jerusalem, and all the houses of the great men, burned he with fire”
(Jeremiah 52:12-13)

WHY Israel Defeated in Leviticus 26: “Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image
to bow down unto it: for I am the Eternal your God. Ye shall keep my sabbaths,
and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Eternal” (verses 1-2).

God promised abundant production and wealth, national peace, and national dominance
that would have led to world dominance (verses 3-13).

But, said God (verses 14-33), if they refused to obey those commandments,
they would suffer sickness and disease, and driven from their land as slaves
to their enemies’ lands.

God made a special eternally binding covenant with them involving the Sabbath
(Exodus 31:12-17). The Sabbath was made the national sign by which the true God
would be identified and known to them, and by which they were to be identified as His people.

After the division into two nations—when the kingdom of Israel made Jeroboam
their king, the first thing this king did was introduce idolatry and Sabbath-breaking.

Ezekiel was given a message from God to the house of Israel(Ezekiel 3:1).

God says, in Ezekiel 20: “Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt,
and brought them into the wilderness. And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them
my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.

Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them,
that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them” (verses 10-12).

“But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness:
they walked not in MY statutes, and they despised MY judgments?…?
and MY sabbaths they greatly polluted?…” (verse 13).

Then God pleaded with their children, a generation later. Notice!

“But I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes of
your fathers, neither observe THEIR judgments, nor defile yourselves with THEIR idols:
I am the Eternal your God; walk in MY statutes, and keep MY judgments, and do them;

And hallow MY sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you,
that ye may know that I am the Eternal your God” (verses 18-20).

The entire emphasis here is between God’s statutes, judgments and Sabbaths
on the one hand, and their FATHERS’ different sabbaths, statutes and judgments.

the children rebelled against me,” continued God, through the Prophet Ezekiel.
“[T]hey polluted MY sabbaths?…” (verse 21).

He scattered them, in national captivity and slavery (verse 23).

“Because they had not executed MY judgments, but had despised MY statutes,
and had polluted MY sabbaths, and their eyes were after their FATHERS’ idols”

“And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries
wherein ye are scattered?…?with fury poured out. And I will bring you into
the wilderness of the people [coming exodus—Jeremiah 23:7-8],

and there will I plead with you face to face” (Ezekiel 20:34-35).

“Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt,
SO will I plead with you, saith the Lord God?.… And I will purge out from
among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me..
and YE shall know that I am the Lord” (verses 36-38).

43And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein
ye have been defiled; and ye shall lothe yourselves in your own sight
for all your evils that ye have committed.

44And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have wrought with you for
my name's sake, not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your
corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel, saith the Lord God.

He says our people, when they are no longer rebellious, who will then be
keeping His Sabbath, shall remember their ways in which they were defiled,
and shall loathe themselves for their Sabbath-breaking!
-

They were removed out of their land. “For the children of Israel walked in
all the sins of Jeroboam which he did; they departed not from them;

Until the Lord removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the
prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day”
(2 Kings 17:22-23).

21For he rent Israel from the house of David; and they made Jeroboam the son of Nebat king:
and Jeroboam drave Israel from following the Lord, and made them sin a great sin.

For the children of Israel walked in all the sins of Jeroboam which he did;
they departed not from them; 1 Kings 15:30 (KJV)

Because of the sins of Jeroboam which he sinned, and which he made Israel sin,
by his provocation wherewith he provoked the Lord God of Israel to anger.
1 Kings 14:16 (KJV)

And he shall give Israel up because of the sins of Jeroboam, who did sin,
and who made Israel to sin.

Isreal became slaves, then lost to the world, dispersed with there captures.
by deforce, becoming the lost 10 tribes,

15Though thou, Israel, play the harlot, yet let not Judah offend;

-130 year after Isreal lost to the world and long gone,
Judah does not listen and goes captive too.

that faithless one, Israel, how she played the harlot

[A]nd her false sister Judah saw it. She saw that for
all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel,

I had sent her away with a decree of divorce;
yet her false sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the harlot also.

And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery
I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah
feared not,but went and played the harlot also. Jeremiah 3:8 (KJV)

I will remove Judah also out of my sight, as I have removed Israel,
and will cast off this city Jerusalem which I have chosen,
and the house of which I said, My name shall be there” (2 Kings 23:27).

Jeroboam changed the fall Sabbath feasts from the 7th month to the 8th month,
it is also implyed that they changed the sabbath to the first day of week at this time.

so Does it matter to God about [his convocations] ?

“And I will wait upon the Lord, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob(sinful Isreal)
Isaiah 8:17: God is now hidding his face from them, striped of name, heritage, idenity,
and for Davids sake and Gods Holy name do we even see the so. tribe of Judah.

all because of sabbaths breaking, which to God is idoltry

Yes!!!!

Exodus 31:
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Shalom,

Jayoish

Jayoish · Apr 17, 2016

Mo0448 said:

You are wrong, Jesus did not break the Sabbath Law and he did not allow his disciples to do so either. It was lawful to do good on the Sabbath, so anytime Jesus healed someone, it was okay. Only the Pharisees was ignorance in these things. Also, the disciples did nothing wrong, it was lawful to eat on the Sabbath and that is what they did, but they did not work on the Sabbath such as cook their food, they plucked it and just ate it as it was.

You contradicted yourself in this passage, as well. How can Jesus be blameless and sin free but broke the Sabbath and allow his disciples to do so, too. That would be sin!

Shalom,

Jayoish

chootchooot · Apr 17, 2016

Saturday is the sabbath

Jayoish · Apr 17, 2016

blue_ladybug said:

You can allow these people to deceive you, if you want, but I warn you that you will pay the consequences!!!!!

This question is an understatement, we can choice to follow Christ of not, also. GOD made us a free agent where we can choice to serve him or not! He did not and still is not making us obey his commandment, but just know that your choice is for eternality!!!

Deuteronomy 30:
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.

Shalom,

Jayoish

Jayoish · Apr 17, 2016

4enlightment said:

Yes, that is true, but everyday can not be our Sabbath! Or we would not be able to work and provide a living for ourselves because the Bible states the Sabbath must be a day of rest, no work. How can you support yourself, if you can't work every day!

Shalom,

Jayoish

Lifted_by_the_word · Apr 17, 2016

Jayoish said:

I'm not going to flat out say that Jesus is the Sabbath,but Jesus did say that he is greater then the Sabbath and there is this verse.

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Isn't that what the Sabbath is,to reconcile with God?same with Jesus. You can say that he is the Sabbath and the rest of the feasts and this verse does hold merit to back that up.

I could be wrong though,but it does give me something else to look into other then the remnant and The Two Witnesses that I always bring up.

mpaper345 · Apr 17, 2016

blue_ladybug said:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

When the saints receive the Spirit,they are observing the sabbath,and it is a spiritual rest now,for that which is natural is first,the Old Testament,then that which is spiritual,the New Testament,and the sabbath goes from a physical day of rest,to a spiritual rest by the Holy Spirit.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The physical ordinances had no bearing on a spiritual relationship with God,but they had to do them to keep right with Gid,until Jesus came,and then Jesus took them out of the way,so let no man judge you concerning the sabbath days,for they were only a shadow of what was to come,but the body is of Christ,by the Spirit,our spiritual rest.

So I suppose we can worship everyday if we want,which they could also worship everyday in the Old Testament,but is there a day that God would want us to make sure we come together,at least on that day.

Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

We do not observe a sabbath day,for the sabbath is a spiritual rest,by the Spirit,and we can come together at anytime and worship God,but since Jesus rose on the first day,maybe God wants us at least to gather on that day,which Paul tells them to gather the collections on the first day,and preached on the first day,until midnight.

That Paul was something else,where a lot of preachers end their service at nine,or before,Paul preaches until midnight,which when Paul goes to preaching he does not stop until the entire day is over.Paul is a lean,mean,preaching machine.

posthuman · Apr 17, 2016

Lifted_by_the_word said:

in one sense, no, not quite, but in another sense, yes, very much!

You shall surely observe My sabbaths;
for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations,
that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.
(Exodus 31:13)

I gave them my Sabbaths, as a sign between me and them,
that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.
(Ezekiel 20:12)

the sabbath is to cease from your own works, and to understand and know that Jah is the One who sanctifies you; you do not sanctify yourself.

this is the shadow, and the reality is found in Christ - that by placing faith in Him, He has declared us righteous and clean. not by works, but by grace through faith. through Him we are reconciled -- but we do not reconcile ourselves. the purpose of the sabbath laws, and the revelation of the gospel, is that God reconciles & redeems you, through trusting in the finished work of Jesus the Christ. we do not redeem ourselves or reconcile ourselves to Him, but He, us, to Himself.

resurrection33 · Apr 17, 2016

Jayoish said:

What makes you think Saturday is the last day of the week?

tourist · Apr 17, 2016

resurrection33 said:

Exactly. Who determined the order of the days of the week?

prove-all · Apr 17, 2016

tourist said:

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.
And the evening and the morning were the first day.

2nd, 3rd, ...etc.

john832 · Apr 17, 2016

blue_ladybug said:

resurrection33 said:

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The seventh day is the Sabbath. Calendars come and go but the weekly cycle has remained since creation.

As far as the question of should we worship on the Sabbath or does it matter?

Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

What is a convocation?

H4744

מִקְרָא
miqrâ'
mik-raw'
From H7121; something called out, that is, a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the palce); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading.

What is a holy convocation? A holy public meeting or assembly. We call 'em church services today.

john832 · Apr 17, 2016

resurrection33 said:

What makes you think it is not?

When Is The Actual Sabbath?

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