81% of Christians think Christianity is following rules in the bible

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Sep 4, 2012
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I'm getting the impression that HeRoseFromTheDead is Catholic because he hates what Martin Luther taught. Only people i know of today who hate what Martin Luther taught is the Catholics.
No. I'm definitely not catholic. Read what Martin Luther wrote. He was crazy.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Listen to the Holy Spirit HeRoseFromTheDead, and STOP listening to what the World teaches.

If it were not for God using Martin Luther and John Calvin an others, we would all be slaves in the Catholic Church trying to work for our Salvation by our works!

Could it be you are in reality a closeted Catholic on here trying to make problems for those who refuse to follow what you say?

All i have heard from you is works based Christianity. You teach we have to do this or that our we will lose our Salvation if we do not do what you say.

Until you receive the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit, you will continue to walk in blindness and will never understand exactly what the Holy Spirit says in the Scriptures.
There were other reformers besides Calvin and Luther. Many of them Calvin and Luther persecuted, just like the catholic church did.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Listen to the Holy Spirit HeRoseFromTheDead, and STOP listening to what the World teaches.

If it were not for God using Martin Luther and John Calvin an others, we would all be slaves in the Catholic Church trying to work for our Salvation by our works!

Could it be you are in reality a closeted Catholic on here trying to make problems for those who refuse to follow what you say?

All i have heard from you is works based Christianity. You teach we have to do this or that our we will lose our Salvation if we do not do what you say.

Until you receive the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit, you will continue to walk in blindness and will never understand exactly what the Holy Spirit says in the Scriptures.
I don't say that you have to do this or that. I merely say what Jesus said: that you have to do the will of GOD to be saved.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Amen..we must do the will of the Father!..What is the will of the Father for salvation ( as in going to be with the Lord for eternity based on His finished work alone )

The Will of the Father is to believe on Jesus and in His grace for salvation only.

John 6:40 (NASB)
[SUP]40 [/SUP] "For this is the will of My Father,
that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23[/SUP]
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us,
by the Spirit whom He has given us.
 
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Dec 9, 2011
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I don't say that you have to do this or that. I merely say what Jesus said: that you have to do the will of GOD to be saved.
Just remember that obedience doesn't come first,salvation comes first,and then we are GOD's workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works.

Its the spirit that was saved AND sealed and cannot sin because we were born of INCORRUPTIBLE seed.

GOD Is a SPIRIT and just men were made perfect In our spirits..

GOD to man....SPIRIT to spirit.

Although we are weak In the flesh and still sin,we were saved and sealed In the spirit and cannot sin.

Your emphasis seems to be on the flesh of the reborn person.

GOD forgave those that accessed grace through faith In CHRIST alone once and for all, but we should want to work to the outside the new us thats on the Inside.

Be conscious of your right standing with GOD.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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ok. I think that set of rules thinking has become in (as a wide spread belief) because people got sick of the traditional christians (the ones that dont really care and just go to church on christmas and easter but really dont commit themselves to christ in any way) so there came this ''fire and brimstone'' teaching where preachers would force laws and hell down everyones throat with hope people are too scared to do wrong and walk step by step by the book (radical and legalistically) . And I think that this is why people think its all about rules. People dont get shown that its about love ,people mainly get slammed with :You will go to hell, you are a sinner! Repent!!
And rather than doing their own research people rather just accept something to have a excuse to not get into it i the first place.
The modern church could use some "fire & brimstone" preaching that demands a commitment & requires us to repent of our sins.

It's true repentance that brings revival.

2 Chronicles 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
 
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PurerInHeart

Guest
To love God IS to obey Him. "If you love Me you will keep my commands." The rich man told Jesus he obeyed the commands since childhood. But he couldn't give up his wealth- that would have shown that God is his focus, and not himself. I get it, I truly do. What you're saying is you need the later, and you think that I'm saying you need the first, when what I'm saying is you need both. If you were strong enough to be the later, then you would easily do the first because you love Him enough to obey His commands.

I don't have a checklist to check off to earn my way to heaven. I obey because I love Him, and He gives me the gift of grace because I obey Him. My obedience does not earn His grace, but He only gives the gift of grace to those who obey Him. He does not give the gift of grace to demons who believe, murders who believe, the sexually immoral who believe, etc. But to those who take up their cross daily to follow Christ. Taking up their cross daily does not earn grace, but it is only gifted to those who take up their cross daily.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Just remember that obedience doesn't come first,salvation comes first,and then we are GOD's workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works.

Its the spirit that was saved AND sealed and cannot sin because we were born of INCORRUPTIBLE seed.

GOD Is a SPIRIT and just men were made perfect In our spirits..

GOD to man....SPIRIT to spirit.

Although we are weak In the flesh and still sin,we were saved and sealed In the spirit and cannot sin.

Your emphasis seems to be on the flesh of the reborn person.

GOD forgave those that accessed grace through faith In CHRIST alone once and for all, but we should want to work to the outside the new us thats on the Inside.

Be conscious of your right standing with GOD.
It's the whole person that is sealed and saved. This idea that only the spirit, or inner man, is saved is gnostic. You don't exist apart from your body, and you never will. The whole person is saved, or the person isn't saved at all.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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The law of sin is still in our bodies and will be until we get new ones from the Lord. We see the distinction here in Romans 8.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin,
yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

We are sealed now with the Holy Spirit in our inner man of the heart created in righteousness and holiness.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)

[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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ok. I think that set of rules thinking has become in (as a wide spread belief) because people got sick of the traditional christians (the ones that dont really care and just go to church on christmas and easter but really dont commit themselves to christ in any way) so there came this ''fire and brimstone'' teaching where preachers would force laws and hell down everyones throat with hope people are too scared to do wrong and walk step by step by the book (radical and legalistically) . And I think that this is why people think its all about rules. People dont get shown that its about love ,people mainly get slammed with :You will go to hell, you are a sinner! Repent!!
And rather than doing their own research people rather just accept something to have a excuse to not get into it i the first place.
They tried to offer a remedy but it was poison. They thought that morality and striving in the flesh was the solution instead of relying upon God to sanctify them. It was once known as the "holiness movement" and while people were sincere, they were sincerely wrong. If you hold the law up and tell people to obey, it doesn't set them free. It condemns them! Even more so, because the flesh takes advantage of the law.

Oh how sincerity can be masqueraded as truth, yet it can put forth a lie. A congregation in sin and given the law to bring about change will inevitably make all of them quit Christianity or make, of them, many hypocrites and liars. I forgot a third option, bring them to an end of themselves and see their need for God to set them free. The true remedy to sin is by God's grace, it breaks sin's dominion. It's God's process of sanctification that has lasting change.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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The whole man - body, soul, spirit - is sealed and saved, not just the spirit, or inner man.

[Christ] in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your complete spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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I don't say that you have to do this or that. I merely say what Jesus said: that you have to do the will of GOD to be saved.
VVhich is to believe in the Son of God, that He sent (I.e; Jesus Christ).
 
Nov 22, 2015
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It is God that sanctifies us through Christ's work. We are waiting for the redemption of our bodies.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23[/SUP] Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass. ( isn't is good to know that the Lord will be faithful; to bring about one day our spirit, soul and body - that we are both sanctified now in our spirit and are being sanctified in our soul and body? )

As believers, our born-again spirits are complete in every way. Paul made it very clear in this verse that it is God’s will for our entire person to be sanctified. Our souls and bodies will not experience the same degree of sanctification as our spirits until we go to be with the Lord or He returns for us. They can be blameless but not sinless.

We are still waiting for the redemption of our bodies to come. The first fruits is our spirit/inner man completely sealed in Christ and it cannot sin.

Romans 8:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
 
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Dec 9, 2011
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It's the whole person that is sealed and saved. This idea that only the spirit, or inner man, is saved is gnostic. You don't exist apart from your body, and you never will. The whole person is saved, or the person isn't saved at all.
Its error to say that the whole body Is saved and sealed here on this earth.

If everyone was sealed In there whole body,then the whole body would be perfect and those that are reborn would not sin because they would be perfect In spirit and also In the body.

We are not perfect In the body yet,we have not received our new bodies yet.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence,work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Phil 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

You were saved by Grace through faith and not by your works. So how did that work out? Are you sure that is how it happened?

What about all your righteousness that you did? Surely that must have contributed?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I read this quote from the George Barna Research Group and it hit me how far we have come the true gospel of the grace of Christ.

This survey essentially said that 81% of Christians believe that Christianity is nothing more then going through the bible and finding a bunch of rules listed in the bible and trying our best to actually live by them.

How did we water down the true gospel of an exchanged life in Christ and learning to live by the life of Another in us now because we have died with Christ ( our old man was crucified with Him ) and have been raised up with Him to newness of life - how did it become so warped to reduce it down to the keeping of rules?


We are to live by the life of Christ in us - not by the keeping of rules. Jesus died "for" us so that He could live "in" us and that He could live "through" us.

This brand of religion is no different then buddhaism or any other good moral living religion.

Here is the link.

https://www.barna.org/barna-update/...ers-a-year-in-review-perspective#.VzhQsSfmqdI

What are other's thoughts on why the gospel has been watered down to this religious rule-keeping instead of living from an exchanged life in and through us that is ours because of our union with Christ - a new creation in Him?

I am reading a book on satan and his tactics.

One of satans greatest victories is religion. If satan can paint God as a different God than he really is (different gospel) then satan can have millions upon millions of people who think they will go to heaven, who will end up in hell.. But more than this, he will have these warriors who think they are fighting for Christ fighting for himself and keeping people away from the truth of the gospel of Christ. possibly even taking out true Christians from the battle as they too fall for this legalistic ritual/rules based Christian lifestyle which has no power at all.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
I am reading a book on satan and his tactics.

One of satans greatest victories is religion. If satan can paint God as a different God than he really is (different gospel) then satan can have millions upon millions of people who think they will go to heaven, who will end up in hell.. But more than this, he will have these warriors who think they are fighting for Christ fighting for himself and keeping people away from the truth of the gospel of Christ. possibly even taking out true Christians from the battle as they too fall for this legalistic ritual/rules based Christian lifestyle which has no power at all.
I couldn't agree more.

"Religion consists of all the things (believing, behaving, worshiping, sacrificing) the human race has ever thought it had to do to get right with God. About those things, Christianity has only two comments to make. The first is that none of them ever had the least chance of doing the trick: the blood of bulls and goats can never take away sins (see the Epistle to the Hebrews) and no effort of ours to keep the law of God can ever finally succeed (see the Epistle to the Romans). The second is that everything religion tried (and failed) to do has been perfectly done, once and for all, by Jesus in his death and resurrection. For Christians, therefore, the entire religion shop has been closed, boarded up, and forgotten. The church is not in the religion business. It never has been and it never will be, in spite of all the ecclesiastical turkeys through two thousand years who have acted as if religion was their stock in trade. The church, instead, is in the Gospel-proclaiming business. It is not here to bring the world the bad news that God will think kindly about us only after we have gone through certain creedal, liturgical and ethical wickets; it is here to bring the world the Good News that “while we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly.” It is here, in short, for no religious purpose at all, only to announce the Gospel of free grace." -Robert F. Capon
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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I read this quote from the George Barna Research Group and it hit me how far we have come the true gospel of the grace of Christ.

This survey essentially said that 81% of Christians believe that Christianity is nothing more then going through the bible and finding a bunch of rules listed in the bible and trying our best to actually live by them.

How did we water down the true gospel of an exchanged life in Christ and learning to live by the life of Another in us now because we have died with Christ ( our old man was crucified with Him ) and have been raised up with Him to newness of life - how did it become so warped to reduce it down to the keeping of rules?


We are to live by the life of Christ in us - not by the keeping of rules. Jesus died "for" us so that He could live "in" us and that He could live "through" us.

This brand of religion is no different then buddhaism or any other good moral living religion.

Here is the link.

https://www.barna.org/barna-update/...ers-a-year-in-review-perspective#.VzhQsSfmqdI

What are other's thoughts on why the gospel has been watered down to this religious rule-keeping instead of living from an exchanged life in and through us that is ours because of our union with Christ - a new creation in Him?
Does this 81% mean nominell christians ore born again christians?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Does this 81% mean nominell christians ore born again christians?
I think it's people that classify themselves as Christians. There will always be tares with the wheat so only God can separate them out at the end of the age.
 
P

Persuaded

Guest
I read this quote from the George Barna Research Group and it hit me how far we have come the true gospel of the grace of Christ.

This survey essentially said that 81% of Christians believe that Christianity is nothing more then going through the bible and finding a bunch of rules listed in the bible and trying our best to actually live by them.

How did we water down the true gospel of an exchanged life in Christ and learning to live by the life of Another in us now because we have died with Christ ( our old man was crucified with Him ) and have been raised up with Him to newness of life - how did it become so warped to reduce it down to the keeping of rules?


We are to live by the life of Christ in us - not by the keeping of rules. Jesus died "for" us so that He could live "in" us and that He could live "through" us.

This brand of religion is no different then buddhaism or any other good moral living religion.

Here is the link.

https://www.barna.org/barna-update/...ers-a-year-in-review-perspective#.VzhQsSfmqdI

What are other's thoughts on why the gospel has been watered down to this religious rule-keeping instead of living from an exchanged life in and through us that is ours because of our union with Christ - a new creation in Him?
I see several reasons for this false belief.

First is the fact that most members of local churches are just like the church at Corinth. i.e. carnal and can not receive the meat of the Word.

Secondly, to many pastors are also carnal and do not know the meat of the Word.

Thirdly, those who know the problem don't have the guts to stand up and address the situstion as Paul did.