-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Don't let them distract you, you are correct. The Bible is neither twisted or confusing until they go out of their way to try and make it so.
The term 'falling away' is found in 2 Thess 2:3, but only in the KJV. Most other translations render it 'catching away', and it indeed is a reference to the rapture.
2 Thess 2:1-3 says that the Second Coming of Christ will not happen until after 1.) the catching away (rapture), and 2.) the man of sin is revealed (tribulation period). This agrees totally with all the rest of scripture.
Matthew 24:15-28 is addressed to the Traditional Jews and others who have been left behind after the rapture. They will have to endure the 7 year Tribulation and reject the mark of the beast. This will most likely cost them their lives.
The term 'falling away' is found in 2 Thess 2:3, but only in the KJV. Most other translations render it 'catching away', and it indeed is a reference to the rapture.
2 Thess 2:1-3 says that the Second Coming of Christ will not happen until after 1.) the catching away (rapture), and 2.) the man of sin is revealed (tribulation period). This agrees totally with all the rest of scripture.
Matthew 24:15-28 is addressed to the Traditional Jews and others who have been left behind after the rapture. They will have to endure the 7 year Tribulation and reject the mark of the beast. This will most likely cost them their lives.
Oh...so you think they are the same reaping being described twice...? Even when it says: And then another angel...? But you think it is the same one? Oh wait...it isn't Rev 19! It is Rev 14:14 and onward. Haha, that is why what you said made no sense to me. 
I'm talking about the 2 reapings beginning at 14:14.
I'm talking about the 2 reapings beginning at 14:14.
E
So you are saying Jesus never died on the cross, rose again and sat down on the right hand and overcame?
Better reread Rev 2 & 3 and heed his own words.
Lot was not spared from tribulation he was spared from utter destruction. Same for Noah.
Noah had to wade through the destruction.
Tribulation and destruction are 2 very different things.
Noah and Lot were spared destruction for having faith....
Better reread Rev 2 & 3 and heed his own words.
Lot was not spared from tribulation he was spared from utter destruction. Same for Noah.
Noah had to wade through the destruction.
Tribulation and destruction are 2 very different things.
Noah and Lot were spared destruction for having faith....
Last edited:
The gr. For falling away is apostasia which means to abandon belief or religion. I Don't see how it can mean being caught up. Please prove me wrong. I want out of here as much as the next guy. I do believe the man of sin Is being revealed first to those who are tuned in. There's a sign post up ahead...the next stop....in the air.
So far I cant reach the world with the salvation message nor can i reach the ecclesia with the assembly message.....'beam us Lord...there's no intelligent life down here'! Smile.
So far I cant reach the world with the salvation message nor can i reach the ecclesia with the assembly message.....'beam us Lord...there's no intelligent life down here'! Smile.
Morning Oyster67,
Regarding the above, the word used is "apostasia" which as "Yet" pointed out, cannot be used to convey the idea of being caught up, but is derived from two words, aphístēmi: apo - 'away from' and histemi - 'leave, depart' (implying desertion). Properly a leaving from a previous standing.
If Paul wanted you convey the idea of being "caught up" he would have used the same word "harpazo" which is what he used in 1 Thes.4:16 and 2 Cor.12:2. Also, I looked at the major translations and not one of them renders "apostasia" in 2 thes.2:3 as "catching away." The translation of the word "apostasia" varies from, falling away, revolt, rebellion, departure, etc.
Furthermore, the word "apostasia" is only in one other place in Acts 21:21 which was referring to forsaking or turning away from the covenant of the law of Moses.
In conclusion, the word "apostasia" can in no way be used to convey the idea of being "caught up" in the air to meet the Lord.
I Hope that this is beneficial to you.
Regarding the above, the word used is "apostasia" which as "Yet" pointed out, cannot be used to convey the idea of being caught up, but is derived from two words, aphístēmi: apo - 'away from' and histemi - 'leave, depart' (implying desertion). Properly a leaving from a previous standing.
If Paul wanted you convey the idea of being "caught up" he would have used the same word "harpazo" which is what he used in 1 Thes.4:16 and 2 Cor.12:2. Also, I looked at the major translations and not one of them renders "apostasia" in 2 thes.2:3 as "catching away." The translation of the word "apostasia" varies from, falling away, revolt, rebellion, departure, etc.
Furthermore, the word "apostasia" is only in one other place in Acts 21:21 which was referring to forsaking or turning away from the covenant of the law of Moses.
In conclusion, the word "apostasia" can in no way be used to convey the idea of being "caught up" in the air to meet the Lord.
I Hope that this is beneficial to you.
Last edited:
Hello John,
Just FYI, the destruction of the temple is never referred to in scripture as "the day of the Lord." The day of the Lord has specifically to do with the wrath of God that will take place during that last seven years. It is also referred to as the "hour of trial" that is going to come upon the whole world.
Just FYI, the destruction of the temple is never referred to in scripture as "the day of the Lord." The day of the Lord has specifically to do with the wrath of God that will take place during that last seven years. It is also referred to as the "hour of trial" that is going to come upon the whole world.
D
Oh...so you think they are the same reaping being described twice...? Even when it says: And then another angel...? But you think it is the same one? Oh wait...it isn't Rev 19! It is Rev 14:14 and onward. Haha, that is why what you said made no sense to me. I'm talking about the 2 reapings beginning at 14:14.
I'm talking about the 2 reapings beginning at 14:14.
Just last week, I was being harassed with Private Messaging by a man begging for filthy lucre to build a cathedral to further enhance his begging activities.
Aren't you glad that we can chose to use our time on CC to share the good news of Salvation and the Rapture of the saints instead of misusing our time and resources for making more mammon? To the Admins. credit, they banned him last night. Thank you to whoever shot that wolf's paw off. He was still young. We can still pray for him and others like him. That is probably the only reason that the rapture has not already happened Yet.
Aren't you glad that we can chose to use our time on CC to share the good news of Salvation and the Rapture of the saints instead of misusing our time and resources for making more mammon? To the Admins. credit, they banned him last night. Thank you to whoever shot that wolf's paw off. He was still young. We can still pray for him and others like him. That is probably the only reason that the rapture has not already happened Yet.
Good morning AllenW,
In the OT the day of the Lord was specifically referring to an unprecedented time of God's wrath upon the whole world. The Lord through Paul, gives us another characteristic of the day of the Lord demonstrating that the Lord's appearing and the churches gathering is also referred to as the day of the Lord and in fact is what initiates it. Please consider the following:
"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words. Now about the times and seasons, brothers, we do not need to write to you. For you are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
In the scripture above, notice that immediately after Paul gives a detailed account of the gathering of the church, dead and living, in 5:1 he then says, "now about the times and the seasons" would have to refer back to the event that he just gave a detailed account of. In other words, regarding the time and dates of when the gathering of the church was going to take place you have no need for me to write you, because the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
Again, "the day of the Lord" would have to refer back to the event of the dead in Christ being raised and the living in Christ being changed and caught up. Therefore, the gathering of the church is apart of and is what initiates the day of the Lord, which is then followed by the wrath of God, which makes up the rest of the day of the Lord.
In the OT the day of the Lord was specifically referring to an unprecedented time of God's wrath upon the whole world. The Lord through Paul, gives us another characteristic of the day of the Lord demonstrating that the Lord's appearing and the churches gathering is also referred to as the day of the Lord and in fact is what initiates it. Please consider the following:
"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words. Now about the times and seasons, brothers, we do not need to write to you. For you are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
In the scripture above, notice that immediately after Paul gives a detailed account of the gathering of the church, dead and living, in 5:1 he then says, "now about the times and the seasons" would have to refer back to the event that he just gave a detailed account of. In other words, regarding the time and dates of when the gathering of the church was going to take place you have no need for me to write you, because the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
Again, "the day of the Lord" would have to refer back to the event of the dead in Christ being raised and the living in Christ being changed and caught up. Therefore, the gathering of the church is apart of and is what initiates the day of the Lord, which is then followed by the wrath of God, which makes up the rest of the day of the Lord.
Paul's words are never junk. What is junk, is the folk theology of people who misuse his words to support an untenable eschatological theology. And that means "Left Behind" theology and dispensationalism.
I'm glad you own some Greek interlinears. But always be aware they are not perfect, and limited by word order, as well as using the most simplified words to interpret the Greek.
If you move into a Lexicon, like Bauer (BAGD) and some exegetical tools like "The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament by Rogers Jr. and Rogers III, you will be farther ahead.
Then learn how to recognize and translate the noun cases, which are so important, as well as a good understanding of verb tenses, which are so often not translated properly! I am working through a Summer Reader, and they just have eliminated proper use of translating present participles. Not so good for a book which is supposed to be helping you maintain your Greek over the summer!
When you have done all that, we can talk about Greek. I do not think it is necessary to have a Master's level Greek course, although it sure helps. Self study is great, if you are consistent and work hard to learn the basics, as well as memorizing words. I am down to memorizing words with a frequency of 14 times or more in the NT. But even getting to 50 times or more in the NT is great and will help you immensely in your translations.
I'm kind of excited about Greek today, since my course is starting again for fall.
I have to go, but I will come back and answer some of the questions raised in this thread, pertaining to the Greek.
I'm glad you own some Greek interlinears. But always be aware they are not perfect, and limited by word order, as well as using the most simplified words to interpret the Greek.
If you move into a Lexicon, like Bauer (BAGD) and some exegetical tools like "The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament by Rogers Jr. and Rogers III, you will be farther ahead.
Then learn how to recognize and translate the noun cases, which are so important, as well as a good understanding of verb tenses, which are so often not translated properly! I am working through a Summer Reader, and they just have eliminated proper use of translating present participles. Not so good for a book which is supposed to be helping you maintain your Greek over the summer!
When you have done all that, we can talk about Greek. I do not think it is necessary to have a Master's level Greek course, although it sure helps. Self study is great, if you are consistent and work hard to learn the basics, as well as memorizing words. I am down to memorizing words with a frequency of 14 times or more in the NT. But even getting to 50 times or more in the NT is great and will help you immensely in your translations.
I'm kind of excited about Greek today, since my course is starting again for fall.
I have to go, but I will come back and answer some of the questions raised in this thread, pertaining to the Greek.
Yes, what soon must take place.
Many scholars place revelation in Ad 60s, most like 62-65. The word "soon" and "very soon" are continually repeated.
Of course 1 day is a thousand yrs to God so maybe 2000 yrs is "soon" to God, but the temple being destroyed definitely falls into this soon category.
And it also does a lot of other things...
It fits with Ezekiel. Which is the 1st temple being destroyed.
It fits with the great day of the Lord for ISRAEL'S judgment.
It starts a new age. Because there are now no more temple sacrifices possible.
It ties into Matt 24, perfectly. Jesus said this generation will not pass away, He also says run to the mountains of Judea, and in Matt 24 he points to every stone being pulled apart, which is exactly what happened.
Now of course Matt 24 could be a double prophesy and so could Revelation, but I think there's a lot more going on here than traditional view allows for.
Many scholars place revelation in Ad 60s, most like 62-65. The word "soon" and "very soon" are continually repeated.
Of course 1 day is a thousand yrs to God so maybe 2000 yrs is "soon" to God, but the temple being destroyed definitely falls into this soon category.
And it also does a lot of other things...
It fits with Ezekiel. Which is the 1st temple being destroyed.
It fits with the great day of the Lord for ISRAEL'S judgment.
It starts a new age. Because there are now no more temple sacrifices possible.
It ties into Matt 24, perfectly. Jesus said this generation will not pass away, He also says run to the mountains of Judea, and in Matt 24 he points to every stone being pulled apart, which is exactly what happened.
Now of course Matt 24 could be a double prophesy and so could Revelation, but I think there's a lot more going on here than traditional view allows for.