Should I Tithe or Pay My Bills?
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Malachi 3:
10"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.
This is what the Bible says and please notice that God is asking us to Test him in this area...
10"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.
This is what the Bible says and please notice that God is asking us to Test him in this area...
That's O.T.
Israelites were responsible to give 3 different types of tithes.
If you want to use Malachi, then give a Levitical Tithe, Festival Tithe, and Poor Tithe.
That's 3 types of tithes, not just one. And yes, that means it's not just 10% anymore.
If you're using Mal to support tithing, but not giving all 3 types of tithes, you're really robbing God big time.
Or, we can go N.T.
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. -2 Cor 9:7
Israelites were responsible to give 3 different types of tithes.
If you want to use Malachi, then give a Levitical Tithe, Festival Tithe, and Poor Tithe.
That's 3 types of tithes, not just one. And yes, that means it's not just 10% anymore.
If you're using Mal to support tithing, but not giving all 3 types of tithes, you're really robbing God big time.
Or, we can go N.T.
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. -2 Cor 9:7
Matthew 23:[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
Sooooo . . .
Tithing is an Old Covenant Law, and tithes were given to the Levites (priests) of Israel.
The Levitical Priesthood has been replaced and most of us are not Israelites anyway.
In the New Covenant, we give from the heart.
Many modern churches use the terms, "tithes and offerings", signifying and hoping for a guaranteed 10% tithe for their local church for salaries and expenses, and then giving members the 'freedom' of 'offering' on and beyond their 10% 'obligation' to ministries of their choice inside or outside of their local church.
The New Covenant Scriptures don't have it set up that way at all.
We are to give as we are led and are able.
As Willie stated earlier, it's not unreasonable for a group of believers to receive vision and direction from God for a ministry and then seek funding for it. Seeking funding can mean a lot of things - I personally like the George Mueller method (click here).
The local fellowship we have been a part of for over 20 years has not once preached on tithing. They let needs be known - mostly for missions and ministries, and they let the need be known, let folks know how/where to give, and leave it at that. We do have an annual 'business meeting' in the summer where the budget is accounted for for the previous year and the projected budget is made known for the coming year. These are unusually fun meetings, preceded by a pot-luck meal and where great joy is taken in seeing God's provision for the previous year. Ours is an elder-led fellowship of about 300 or so, and there is loving accountability within our local Body. Surprising amounts are given from our relatively small fellowship to outside ministries and needs within our body and sphere of influence. Additionally, there is ample provision for our modest building (which is paid for) and operating expenses, including 2 pastors' salaries which are modest, and who both, until recent years, were bi-vocational, meaning they had full-time jobs in addition to being our pastors.
All needs are met by trusting believers to give as they feel led and not as compelled by some 'law' or 'principle'.
In our 20 years there, we have been on the giving and receiving ends - most recently during the last year believers stepped up in amazing ways to help provide for our family of nine as we were consumed with the treatment and care of one of our children who had brain and spine cancer (for those of you who don't know me, he's doing well - clear scans as of July - rechecks quarterly now). We were gifted with countless meals, a vehicle, funds, and lots and lots of prayer and support (cards, notes, texts, emails, etc.). When we've been able to be on the giving end, we do, in like fashion as described above, however we're led. Sometimes that means money, sometimes it means stuff, food, acts of service, or time.
So to the OP (which is likely more rhetorical rather than specific, I do understand): Pay your bills. If you are spending more than you make, stop it. Learn to live beneath your means. Give when you feel led as you are able. Take joy in giving; don't view it as a 'duty' or 'law', but as a way for you to love those around you. Money is the least of those ways to love those around you, btw - there are lots of needs in any local body. Ask around - your pastors/elders will be able to steer you in the directions of needs for home repairs, meals, visitation, needed rides, encouragement, prayer, etc. Money is not is not the only way by which we can love others.
All done now
.
-JGIG
Tithing is an Old Covenant Law, and tithes were given to the Levites (priests) of Israel.
The Levitical Priesthood has been replaced and most of us are not Israelites anyway.
In the New Covenant, we give from the heart.
Many modern churches use the terms, "tithes and offerings", signifying and hoping for a guaranteed 10% tithe for their local church for salaries and expenses, and then giving members the 'freedom' of 'offering' on and beyond their 10% 'obligation' to ministries of their choice inside or outside of their local church.
The New Covenant Scriptures don't have it set up that way at all.
We are to give as we are led and are able.
As Willie stated earlier, it's not unreasonable for a group of believers to receive vision and direction from God for a ministry and then seek funding for it. Seeking funding can mean a lot of things - I personally like the George Mueller method (click here).
The local fellowship we have been a part of for over 20 years has not once preached on tithing. They let needs be known - mostly for missions and ministries, and they let the need be known, let folks know how/where to give, and leave it at that. We do have an annual 'business meeting' in the summer where the budget is accounted for for the previous year and the projected budget is made known for the coming year. These are unusually fun meetings, preceded by a pot-luck meal and where great joy is taken in seeing God's provision for the previous year. Ours is an elder-led fellowship of about 300 or so, and there is loving accountability within our local Body. Surprising amounts are given from our relatively small fellowship to outside ministries and needs within our body and sphere of influence. Additionally, there is ample provision for our modest building (which is paid for) and operating expenses, including 2 pastors' salaries which are modest, and who both, until recent years, were bi-vocational, meaning they had full-time jobs in addition to being our pastors.
All needs are met by trusting believers to give as they feel led and not as compelled by some 'law' or 'principle'.
In our 20 years there, we have been on the giving and receiving ends - most recently during the last year believers stepped up in amazing ways to help provide for our family of nine as we were consumed with the treatment and care of one of our children who had brain and spine cancer (for those of you who don't know me, he's doing well - clear scans as of July - rechecks quarterly now). We were gifted with countless meals, a vehicle, funds, and lots and lots of prayer and support (cards, notes, texts, emails, etc.). When we've been able to be on the giving end, we do, in like fashion as described above, however we're led. Sometimes that means money, sometimes it means stuff, food, acts of service, or time.
So to the OP (which is likely more rhetorical rather than specific, I do understand): Pay your bills. If you are spending more than you make, stop it. Learn to live beneath your means. Give when you feel led as you are able. Take joy in giving; don't view it as a 'duty' or 'law', but as a way for you to love those around you. Money is the least of those ways to love those around you, btw - there are lots of needs in any local body. Ask around - your pastors/elders will be able to steer you in the directions of needs for home repairs, meals, visitation, needed rides, encouragement, prayer, etc. Money is not is not the only way by which we can love others.
All done now
.-JGIG
Yes, those are Jesus' words pre-Calvary.
Post Calvary:
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. -2 Cor 9:7
Coincidentally, Jesus also called justice, mercy and faithfulness weightier matters than tithing. To Him, that was more important than the 3 tithes required under Levitical law.
Post Calvary:
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. -2 Cor 9:7
Coincidentally, Jesus also called justice, mercy and faithfulness weightier matters than tithing. To Him, that was more important than the 3 tithes required under Levitical law.
Sooooo . . .
Tithing is an Old Covenant Law, and tithes were given to the Levites (priests) of Israel.
The Levitical Priesthood has been replaced and most of us are not Israelites anyway.
In the New Covenant, we give from the heart.
Many modern churches use the terms, "tithes and offerings", signifying and hoping for a guaranteed 10% tithe for their local church for salaries and expenses, and then giving members the 'freedom' of 'offering' on and beyond their 10% 'obligation' to ministries of their choice inside or outside of their local church.
The New Covenant Scriptures don't have it set up that way at all.
We are to give as we are led and are able.
As Willie stated earlier, it's not unreasonable for a group of believers to receive vision and direction from God for a ministry and then seek funding for it. Seeking funding can mean a lot of things - I personally like the George Mueller method (click here).
The local fellowship we have been a part of for over 20 years has not once preached on tithing. They let needs be known - mostly for missions and ministries, and they let the need be known, let folks know how/where to give, and leave it at that. We do have an annual 'business meeting' in the summer where the budget is accounted for for the previous year and the projected budget is made known for the coming year. These are unusually fun meetings, preceded by a pot-luck meal and where great joy is taken in seeing God's provision for the previous year. Ours is an elder-led fellowship of about 300 or so, and there is loving accountability within our local Body. Surprising amounts are given from our relatively small fellowship to outside ministries and needs within our body and sphere of influence. Additionally, there is ample provision for our modest building (which is paid for) and operating expenses, including 2 pastors' salaries which are modest, and who both, until recent years, were bi-vocational, meaning they had full-time jobs in addition to being our pastors.
All needs are met by trusting believers to give as they feel led and not as compelled by some 'law' or 'principle'.
In our 20 years there, we have been on the giving and receiving ends - most recently during the last year believers stepped up in amazing ways to help provide for our family of nine as we were consumed with the treatment and care of one of our children who had brain and spine cancer (for those of you who don't know me, he's doing well - clear scans as of July - rechecks quarterly now). We were gifted with countless meals, a vehicle, funds, and lots and lots of prayer and support (cards, notes, texts, emails, etc.). When we've been able to be on the giving end, we do, in like fashion as described above, however we're led. Sometimes that means money, sometimes it means stuff, food, acts of service, or time.
So to the OP (which is likely more rhetorical rather than specific, I do understand): Pay your bills. If you are spending more than you make, stop it. Learn to live beneath your means. Give when you feel led as you are able. Take joy in giving; don't view it as a 'duty' or 'law', but as a way for you to love those around you. Money is the least of those ways to love those around you, btw - there are lots of needs in any local body. Ask around - your pastors/elders will be able to steer you in the directions of needs for home repairs, meals, visitation, needed rides, encouragement, prayer, etc. Money is not is not the only way by which we can love others.
All done now.
-JGIG
Tithing is an Old Covenant Law, and tithes were given to the Levites (priests) of Israel.
The Levitical Priesthood has been replaced and most of us are not Israelites anyway.
In the New Covenant, we give from the heart.
Many modern churches use the terms, "tithes and offerings", signifying and hoping for a guaranteed 10% tithe for their local church for salaries and expenses, and then giving members the 'freedom' of 'offering' on and beyond their 10% 'obligation' to ministries of their choice inside or outside of their local church.
The New Covenant Scriptures don't have it set up that way at all.
We are to give as we are led and are able.
As Willie stated earlier, it's not unreasonable for a group of believers to receive vision and direction from God for a ministry and then seek funding for it. Seeking funding can mean a lot of things - I personally like the George Mueller method (click here).
The local fellowship we have been a part of for over 20 years has not once preached on tithing. They let needs be known - mostly for missions and ministries, and they let the need be known, let folks know how/where to give, and leave it at that. We do have an annual 'business meeting' in the summer where the budget is accounted for for the previous year and the projected budget is made known for the coming year. These are unusually fun meetings, preceded by a pot-luck meal and where great joy is taken in seeing God's provision for the previous year. Ours is an elder-led fellowship of about 300 or so, and there is loving accountability within our local Body. Surprising amounts are given from our relatively small fellowship to outside ministries and needs within our body and sphere of influence. Additionally, there is ample provision for our modest building (which is paid for) and operating expenses, including 2 pastors' salaries which are modest, and who both, until recent years, were bi-vocational, meaning they had full-time jobs in addition to being our pastors.
All needs are met by trusting believers to give as they feel led and not as compelled by some 'law' or 'principle'.
In our 20 years there, we have been on the giving and receiving ends - most recently during the last year believers stepped up in amazing ways to help provide for our family of nine as we were consumed with the treatment and care of one of our children who had brain and spine cancer (for those of you who don't know me, he's doing well - clear scans as of July - rechecks quarterly now). We were gifted with countless meals, a vehicle, funds, and lots and lots of prayer and support (cards, notes, texts, emails, etc.). When we've been able to be on the giving end, we do, in like fashion as described above, however we're led. Sometimes that means money, sometimes it means stuff, food, acts of service, or time.
So to the OP (which is likely more rhetorical rather than specific, I do understand): Pay your bills. If you are spending more than you make, stop it. Learn to live beneath your means. Give when you feel led as you are able. Take joy in giving; don't view it as a 'duty' or 'law', but as a way for you to love those around you. Money is the least of those ways to love those around you, btw - there are lots of needs in any local body. Ask around - your pastors/elders will be able to steer you in the directions of needs for home repairs, meals, visitation, needed rides, encouragement, prayer, etc. Money is not is not the only way by which we can love others.
All done now
.-JGIG
If you used electricity and refuse to pay your power bill, you guilty of stealing. I doubt God would expect you to break a commandment in order to tithe, seems counterproductive to say the least. If you refuse to make a car payment, you'll lose your car, won't be able to get to work, and lose your job. Then the amount of your tithe turns to zip. Again, seems counterproductive.. I'd just ask your preacher to delay getting his new Mercedes and putting in that Olympic size swimming pool until you get caught up on your debts.
M
I've not read the other threads, but strangely the Sunday service included
a bit about giving yesterday.
The pastor was encouraging people to give regularly and talked about the joy and blessings
of giving. I've experienced both and find that no matter what I give, I can't out give God.
But he also said, the last thing I want is for people to give when they are up to their ears in debt,
or give but then end up in trouble because they can't pay their bills/rent etc.
He said to anyone in debt and struggling financially he encouraged them to take a close
look at their finances and set out a plan. Or to attend a CAP (Christians against poverty) course
which the church runs. I believe CAP is also active in Canada and maybe America.
If jobless and unable to give, to pray about that and ask for help from others to look for a job etc.
Then once out of debt and when a financial plan is in place, to then see what money can be given
to the Lord's work, because that is what it is. It's giving to God.
He specifically said he did not want people to end up in further debt because of giving to the
church, but that we all have a reasponsibility as Christians to deal with our money and manage it
differently from the world, be good stewards of what God has given us etc.
a bit about giving yesterday.
The pastor was encouraging people to give regularly and talked about the joy and blessings
of giving. I've experienced both and find that no matter what I give, I can't out give God.
But he also said, the last thing I want is for people to give when they are up to their ears in debt,
or give but then end up in trouble because they can't pay their bills/rent etc.
He said to anyone in debt and struggling financially he encouraged them to take a close
look at their finances and set out a plan. Or to attend a CAP (Christians against poverty) course
which the church runs. I believe CAP is also active in Canada and maybe America.
If jobless and unable to give, to pray about that and ask for help from others to look for a job etc.
Then once out of debt and when a financial plan is in place, to then see what money can be given
to the Lord's work, because that is what it is. It's giving to God.
He specifically said he did not want people to end up in further debt because of giving to the
church, but that we all have a reasponsibility as Christians to deal with our money and manage it
differently from the world, be good stewards of what God has given us etc.
In my church there is no tithing - each member prays for God's guidance in determining the amount of support, then puts the money in an envelope (with no senders name) and drops it in a collection box. After the service the collection box is opened in the presence of at least four members and the total amount is logged in a book.
Members who are going through financial problems are advised not to contribute at all.
Members who are going through financial problems are advised not to contribute at all.
E
If you sow sparingly, you will reap sparingly....
All of you that boast of giving 10% is that all you have to give!?!?!
SO many churches suffer financially because of arm twisting and demanding the mandatory 10%...you get what you ask for....if you demand the peeps to sow 10% you will only reap 10%...if you encourage them to sow bountifully out of their heart cheerfully and sow bountifully according to their means, you will reap bountifully....
All of you that boast of giving 10% is that all you have to give!?!?!
SO many churches suffer financially because of arm twisting and demanding the mandatory 10%...you get what you ask for....if you demand the peeps to sow 10% you will only reap 10%...if you encourage them to sow bountifully out of their heart cheerfully and sow bountifully according to their means, you will reap bountifully....
I used to think,we should tithe because JESUS said,you pay your tithes and this you should have done,but you passover judgement and the love of GOD
I realize that after reading about the women that gave a penny and JESUS said,she had given more because she gave all she had while the others gave out of the abundance they had,so I understand what GOD loves a cheerful giver means,so then,a persons motivation Is what GOD sees.
If you give and you don't really want to give,GOD will not like that even If you give a lot.
I realize that after reading about the women that gave a penny and JESUS said,she had given more because she gave all she had while the others gave out of the abundance they had,so I understand what GOD loves a cheerful giver means,so then,a persons motivation Is what GOD sees.
If you give and you don't really want to give,GOD will not like that even If you give a lot.
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Hildegard von Bingen was tithed by her family to the church. She was an amazing woman, born in 1098. If you have not read up on her, you should She knew more on many subjects than most men for centuries after her Some of her artwork:
The circle of life^^ Below is Hildegard's depiction of her having visions:
She also wrote music. Medieval musicologists treat her music they way she probably intended it, mono tonally with very little instrumentation, perhaps a droning in the background... boring LOL. I love what Richard Souther has done with her compositions.
[video=youtube;ctx5fo-8DTI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctx5fo-8DTI&index=2&list=PLFtQA-qYfCs9qJMVXRydS1i_DFv4qPFU7[/video]
She knew more on many subjects than most men for centuries after her Some of her artwork:
The circle of life^^ Below is Hildegard's depiction of her having visions:
She also wrote music. Medieval musicologists treat her music they way she probably intended it, mono tonally with very little instrumentation, perhaps a droning in the background... boring LOL. I love what Richard Souther has done with her compositions.
[video=youtube;ctx5fo-8DTI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctx5fo-8DTI&index=2&list=PLFtQA-qYfCs9qJMVXRydS1i_DFv4qPFU7[/video]
Hildegard von Bingen was tithed by her family to the church. She was an amazing woman, born in 1098. If you have not read up on her, you should She knew more on many subjects than most men for centuries after her Some of her artwork:
The circle of life^^ Below is Hildegard's depiction of her having visions:
She also wrote music. Medieval musicologists treat her music they way she probably intended it, mono tonally with very little instrumentation, perhaps a droning in the background... boring LOL. I love what Richard Souther has done with her compositions.
[video=youtube;ctx5fo-8DTI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctx5fo-8DTI&index=2&list=PLFtQA-qYfCs9qJMVXRydS1i_DFv4qPFU7[/video]
She knew more on many subjects than most men for centuries after her Some of her artwork:
The circle of life^^ Below is Hildegard's depiction of her having visions:
She also wrote music. Medieval musicologists treat her music they way she probably intended it, mono tonally with very little instrumentation, perhaps a droning in the background... boring LOL. I love what Richard Souther has done with her compositions.
[video=youtube;ctx5fo-8DTI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctx5fo-8DTI&index=2&list=PLFtQA-qYfCs9qJMVXRydS1i_DFv4qPFU7[/video]