Where were we before we were born?
- Thread starter Grace777x70
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I never looked at the Jewish Kabbalah before. I do know that the scripture says that all creation is waiting for the manifestations of the sons of God. What that means in real life is unknown to me.
Paul did say that Christ is hidden in the creation. He would use creation to talk about truth - like the birds of the sky being taken care of by the Father. The lilies of the field. The way truth grows in us - first the blade, then the ear, then the full corn in the ear.
When I think about how plants turn into the sun which then produces chlorophyll for growth and change in the plant - it speaks of Christ to me - We look to the Son and the revelation of Him brings grace and faith that changes us by the Holy Spirit within us.
I firmly believe we are not even scratching the surface of the beauty and life that is in our Lord Jesus Christ.
Paul did say that Christ is hidden in the creation. He would use creation to talk about truth - like the birds of the sky being taken care of by the Father. The lilies of the field. The way truth grows in us - first the blade, then the ear, then the full corn in the ear.
When I think about how plants turn into the sun which then produces chlorophyll for growth and change in the plant - it speaks of Christ to me - We look to the Son and the revelation of Him brings grace and faith that changes us by the Holy Spirit within us.
I firmly believe we are not even scratching the surface of the beauty and life that is in our Lord Jesus Christ.
P
Well Magenta, I understand your perspective, but I also have an equally valid understanding and different perspective based on the following actual experience. It seems you deleted the post? I did not mean to alarm you. Sincerely, James
Let this be for
. . . those who have seen their beloved pass from their view . . .
. . . those who lie ill and are without hope . . .
. . . those who are afraid of their human mortality . . .
. . . and for those who long for peace with life . . .
The following is my best description of
a very personal and a most remarkably true event.
Several months had passed since I took that spiral staircase journey to God.
I am asleep in my bedroom (3–4 am).
I wake up facing the wall to my left, and I raise my head.
Compelled for some reason to turn my head, I look then to the right,
and there, a few feet from my bed, is a Light.
Not a light bulb, nor light coming thru the window.
It was a Light from a different dimension
(Light, that of itself, was alive!)
that just opened up in the middle of my small bedroom.
And I was just about to release an audible “huh?”
When the Light Speaks,
“Be Not afraid; it is I, Peter.”
I barely had time to blink or feel the fear that was just readying to rise
when the voice slowly spoke again,
“Be not afraid; it is I, Peter.”
But this second time the voice and words seem to come from literally everywhere inside me and around me.
I was immersed in their energy and sound,
and I subsequently found myself to have departed from this earth entirely.
I was a Light just like Peter.
I was following behind him, not on legs, however, as I had no human body.
I was more like a
Living Light-filled Expanding Orb of Consciousness,
for lack of better words,
and all of me was totally sobbing with joy!
And I mean, soul-deep sobbing over and over again exclaiming, “It’s so Good to be Home again!” and nothing had ever felt better, truer, and more Real.
Freed from the earth, and finally, Home Again!
YES!!!
We were moving in what felt like a diagonal slant upward direction.
I saw nothing and no one else.
And the further we proceeded, the larger I kept expanding,
all the while filling up even further with a joy that was truly indescribable
and so intense!
Incredibly, in just seconds, it felt as though I had swelled to hundreds of miles in every direction!
(Could there be too much of a “good thing” because I was losing control?)
I was trying to now “hold on” to my (already way the heck out there) boundaries.
I was like a gigantic balloon and my fingertips (that did not exist, though I was trying to use some form of that thought) were stretched to the max and now failing in their effort to contain the now-impending explosion of nuclear joy!
Yikes!?
And as strange or humorously stupid as this may sound,
I was suddenly afraid of “blowing up”!
OK, sure, with Joy Beyond Comprehension,
but still,
I’m feeling like this balloon is going to burst and
Pop! goes the ME-zel.
I stop.
(Apparently fear acts like a brake, even there.)
Peter now stops and turns to me and says gently and with assurance,
“Come, it’s just a little further;
you’re almost there,”
but I reply, “I don’t know how!”
Now is that hysterical or what?
But I really was occupied with the whole “holding on” to some kind of boundary idea, and I feel apologetic (as your brother) that I wimped out at the last moment, a hair’s breath from certain changes to my ego that I sensed might render me void of any chance of retaining a relevant first and last name, leaving me likely speechless and more likely, me-less.
But Peter knew where I was at before I did, and then warmly confided to me “Just wanted to show you, so you know.” And just as suddenly I was returned to this world; me, my body, the room, my bed, and I was delightfully intact with a whole new understanding of the truth of our soul and of our home not being of this earth, but in that of the infinite ether of spirit.
I slid out of my bed and knelt in profound gratitude and thanked my Father and my brother for this most blessed moment of my life. I knew that all of us—, you, me, your family, friends, neighbors, every one of us—are actually together forever. That was a very reassuring thing to know with absolute certainty at the young age of twenty-two.
This was not a near-death experience; I was simply taken and returned. It was the coolest trip of my life, and the awe and preciousness of it remains with me always. To say I am grateful is an understatement. For those that may wonder if this divine soul-snatcher is the same entity as Peter the disciple of Christ, the topic never came up. He never said he was, so I cannot tell you he was, and nothing like that mattered at the time anyway, though “within me,” I do know him to be that brother and your brother. But I would have been equally glad for the lift, no matter the name he gave.
James Francis
Let this be for
. . . those who have seen their beloved pass from their view . . .
. . . those who lie ill and are without hope . . .
. . . those who are afraid of their human mortality . . .
. . . and for those who long for peace with life . . .
The following is my best description of
a very personal and a most remarkably true event.
Several months had passed since I took that spiral staircase journey to God.
I am asleep in my bedroom (3–4 am).
I wake up facing the wall to my left, and I raise my head.
Compelled for some reason to turn my head, I look then to the right,
and there, a few feet from my bed, is a Light.
Not a light bulb, nor light coming thru the window.
It was a Light from a different dimension
(Light, that of itself, was alive!)
that just opened up in the middle of my small bedroom.
And I was just about to release an audible “huh?”
When the Light Speaks,
“Be Not afraid; it is I, Peter.”
I barely had time to blink or feel the fear that was just readying to rise
when the voice slowly spoke again,
“Be not afraid; it is I, Peter.”
But this second time the voice and words seem to come from literally everywhere inside me and around me.
I was immersed in their energy and sound,
and I subsequently found myself to have departed from this earth entirely.
I was a Light just like Peter.
I was following behind him, not on legs, however, as I had no human body.
I was more like a
Living Light-filled Expanding Orb of Consciousness,
for lack of better words,
and all of me was totally sobbing with joy!
And I mean, soul-deep sobbing over and over again exclaiming, “It’s so Good to be Home again!” and nothing had ever felt better, truer, and more Real.
Freed from the earth, and finally, Home Again!
YES!!!
We were moving in what felt like a diagonal slant upward direction.
I saw nothing and no one else.
And the further we proceeded, the larger I kept expanding,
all the while filling up even further with a joy that was truly indescribable
and so intense!
Incredibly, in just seconds, it felt as though I had swelled to hundreds of miles in every direction!
(Could there be too much of a “good thing” because I was losing control?)
I was trying to now “hold on” to my (already way the heck out there) boundaries.
I was like a gigantic balloon and my fingertips (that did not exist, though I was trying to use some form of that thought) were stretched to the max and now failing in their effort to contain the now-impending explosion of nuclear joy!
Yikes!?
And as strange or humorously stupid as this may sound,
I was suddenly afraid of “blowing up”!
OK, sure, with Joy Beyond Comprehension,
but still,
I’m feeling like this balloon is going to burst and
Pop! goes the ME-zel.
I stop.
(Apparently fear acts like a brake, even there.)
Peter now stops and turns to me and says gently and with assurance,
“Come, it’s just a little further;
you’re almost there,”
but I reply, “I don’t know how!”
Now is that hysterical or what?
But I really was occupied with the whole “holding on” to some kind of boundary idea, and I feel apologetic (as your brother) that I wimped out at the last moment, a hair’s breath from certain changes to my ego that I sensed might render me void of any chance of retaining a relevant first and last name, leaving me likely speechless and more likely, me-less.
But Peter knew where I was at before I did, and then warmly confided to me “Just wanted to show you, so you know.” And just as suddenly I was returned to this world; me, my body, the room, my bed, and I was delightfully intact with a whole new understanding of the truth of our soul and of our home not being of this earth, but in that of the infinite ether of spirit.
I slid out of my bed and knelt in profound gratitude and thanked my Father and my brother for this most blessed moment of my life. I knew that all of us—, you, me, your family, friends, neighbors, every one of us—are actually together forever. That was a very reassuring thing to know with absolute certainty at the young age of twenty-two.
This was not a near-death experience; I was simply taken and returned. It was the coolest trip of my life, and the awe and preciousness of it remains with me always. To say I am grateful is an understatement. For those that may wonder if this divine soul-snatcher is the same entity as Peter the disciple of Christ, the topic never came up. He never said he was, so I cannot tell you he was, and nothing like that mattered at the time anyway, though “within me,” I do know him to be that brother and your brother. But I would have been equally glad for the lift, no matter the name he gave.
James Francis
I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.
John 15:15
The mystery religions always have played on secrets. Jesus did not.
Jesus told us everything we need to know.
Now if Jesus told us everything, how come some claim to now know
more than Jesus? It suggests there source is somewhere else.
John 15:15
The mystery religions always have played on secrets. Jesus did not.
Jesus told us everything we need to know.
Now if Jesus told us everything, how come some claim to now know
more than Jesus? It suggests there source is somewhere else.
John 16:12-15 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.
Let me suggest those who say they now have this new revelation, unless it amplifies
what has gone before and is not a contradiction it is just heresy.
The church is full of false prophets who have gone to every extreme you can go to.
When Jesus talked about new things, these were revelations of the power of the Holy
Spirit and going to their deaths as a witness to His death and resurrection.
But the gnostic mystery tellers always want to spin it out into something they
2000+ years on have now just realised.
what has gone before and is not a contradiction it is just heresy.
The church is full of false prophets who have gone to every extreme you can go to.
When Jesus talked about new things, these were revelations of the power of the Holy
Spirit and going to their deaths as a witness to His death and resurrection.
But the gnostic mystery tellers always want to spin it out into something they
2000+ years on have now just realised.
For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
Romans 8:19-21
We are the children of God but the revelation is only when Christ returns.
There is no mystery, everything will be changed and decay will be no more.
Those of the Latter reign believe it is a special set of christians who will no die
but be eternal and rule with Christ. But they are heretics who spin this domination
junk, of becoming worldly rich and powerful and coming to rule, when the actual
apostles became poor and persecuted and died proclaiming victory through faith
in Jesus, which was the total opposite to this latter reign heresy.
But see who is pushing this agenda, and is finally being unmasked from being a
believing christian into the heretic he actually is.
Romans 8:19-21
We are the children of God but the revelation is only when Christ returns.
There is no mystery, everything will be changed and decay will be no more.
Those of the Latter reign believe it is a special set of christians who will no die
but be eternal and rule with Christ. But they are heretics who spin this domination
junk, of becoming worldly rich and powerful and coming to rule, when the actual
apostles became poor and persecuted and died proclaiming victory through faith
in Jesus, which was the total opposite to this latter reign heresy.
But see who is pushing this agenda, and is finally being unmasked from being a
believing christian into the heretic he actually is.
P
Jesus told the man that was being crucified next to Him, that That Day he would be with Him in Paradise. Yet you and many think Peter sleeps for thousands of years. Well, gratefully, somebody briefly woke him up early one morning about 43 years ago. I know, because I was there. Therefore, It remains unarguable Truth to me alone and offered as such. God Bless you, peace james
I was only responding to the part of your post I left intact, and I gave Scripture that refuted what you said. Nothing you have added here proves by any means that our soul pre-exists our earthly dimension. Thank you for sharing your paranormal experience. I have had quite a few myself so I know how what they are like 
"Right-on, right-on." This is my belief. May not be too popular, and it wasn't what I grew up believing, but I find that's what I conclude the more I study scripture. So to the passages above I'd only add a few more passages:
John 1:12-13
12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children not born of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
There's a distinction made by John of being children of God vs. being children of man; that we aren't children of God (or from above) unless and until we believe and receive Christ (to be born again/anew)...and this ties to other passages like John 3:6 that says, "those born of flesh are flesh and those born of spirit are spirit"; like Hebrews 2:7 that says, "You made them a little lower than the angels; you crowned them with glory and honor"; and like someone already mentioned Genesis 2:7, "God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul."
We - the human creature - can't exist without the marriage of spirit (god's breath) and body. No more than a physical creature can exist without a part from their mother AND their father.
Spirit (breath of life) + Body = Soul
Two different things merge to become one. This is why I also believe that if either one is taken away we aren't a soul (i.e. living being) anymore, we're simply nonexistent. We no longer exist and only exist in the memory of God like before we were created. "Saved" (like a file on a hard drive, but in actuality in the mind of God). I believe this is the described "the book of life" mentioned in scripture, which was described to help us understand this concept.
For the invisible things of God, are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made so that we are without excuse (paraphrase of Romans 1:20).
I feel the concept of the immortal soul came from influence of mystery religions and, in a way, is a variation of the deception the serpent told Eve in the garden: "You shall not surely die...You will be like God..."
You hit the nail on the head. Yes, He knew you before you were 'though of' by your parents much less born.
Having said that, he already knows what the DNA markers are that determine who and what (boy/girl) you are or will be!
God knows and sees the Past, Present and Future. This why the Bible was divinely designed, written and inspired by God Himself. He can tell you everything that is going to happen to you and how you are going to deal with it. He already knows if you are written in the Book of Life or not. He already knows if you will be part of the 'Church' ---elect or will take the mark of the beast.
Rem...... we are only three dimension beings. In other words, we see everything in Length, Width and Depth. What about the fourth dimension (Time).
We can only see the past and the very fraction (10 ^-64) of a second known as the present. God sees time from all three of the periods. Thus, He is at least four dimensional and the Bible gives us hints that there might be as many as 10 dimensions out there. Rem..the Donkey and Balaam? The donkey could see the person (Jesus) who was blocking their way and Balaam could not. To me this shows us that dimensions beyond the four dimensions we know of are real and travel between them is possible.
Mankind's Science only Proves God is Real!
Quantum Physics has shown us that if you cut a string in half, then cut one of the pieces in half until you reach a string with a length of 10 to the minus 64th power( a (10) with 64 zeros added on), the particles lose their 'location'. In other words, they are everywhere at the same time.
Think about it... (The Trinity) is everywhere at the same time!!!!!!! What type of being can be everywhere at the same time. One of pure energy and one that is multi-dimensional? Our Lord Jesus Christ.
Yet the Bible speaks of :"But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased." Daniel 12:4
in the last 75 years, our knowledge has exponentially grown when compared to the first nineteen hundred and forty + years after Jesus Christ Birth.
That's why I never use the Urban Dictionary
Guf (גּוּף, also transliterated Guph or even Gup) is a Hebrew word, meaning "body".
In Jewish mysticism the Chamber of Guf, also called the Otzar (הָאוֹצָר, Hebrew for "treasury"), is the Treasury of Souls, located in the Seventh Heaven.
According to Jewish mythology, in the Garden of Eden there is a Tree of life or the "Tree of Souls: that blossoms and produces new souls, which fall into the Guf, the "Treasury of Souls". Gabriel reaches into the treasury and takes out the first soul that comes into his hand. Then Lailah, the Angel of Conception, watches over the embryo until it is born.
According to Rabbi Isaac Luria, the trees are resting places for souls and sparrows can see the soul's descent, explaining their joyous chirping. The Tree of Souls produces all the souls that have ever existed, or will ever exist. When the last soul descends, the world will come to an end. According to the Talmud, Yevamot 62a, is that the Messiah will not come until the Guf is emptied of all its souls. In keeping with other Jewish legends that envision souls as bird-like, the Guf is sometimes described as a columbarium, or birdhouse. The mystic significance of the Guf is that each person is important and has a unique role which only he or she, with his or her unique soul, can fulfill. Even a newborn baby brings the Messiah closer simply by being born.
The peculiar idiom of describing the treasury of souls as a "body" may be connected to the mythic tradition of Adam Kadmon, the primordial man. Adam Kadmon, God's "original intention" for humanity, was a supernal being, androgynous and macro-cosmic (co-equal in size with the universe). When this Adam sinned, humanity was demoted to the flesh and blood, bifurcated and mortal creatures we are now. According to Kabbalah, every human soul is just a fragment (or fragments) cycling out of the great "world-soul" of Adam Kadmon. Hence, every human soul comes from the guf [of Adam Kadmon].
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guf
And that is why I stick to the Bible
Guf (גּוּף, also transliterated Guph or even Gup) is a Hebrew word, meaning "body".
In Jewish mysticism the Chamber of Guf, also called the Otzar (הָאוֹצָר, Hebrew for "treasury"), is the Treasury of Souls, located in the Seventh Heaven.
According to Jewish mythology, in the Garden of Eden there is a Tree of life or the "Tree of Souls: that blossoms and produces new souls, which fall into the Guf, the "Treasury of Souls". Gabriel reaches into the treasury and takes out the first soul that comes into his hand. Then Lailah, the Angel of Conception, watches over the embryo until it is born.
According to Rabbi Isaac Luria, the trees are resting places for souls and sparrows can see the soul's descent, explaining their joyous chirping. The Tree of Souls produces all the souls that have ever existed, or will ever exist. When the last soul descends, the world will come to an end. According to the Talmud, Yevamot 62a, is that the Messiah will not come until the Guf is emptied of all its souls. In keeping with other Jewish legends that envision souls as bird-like, the Guf is sometimes described as a columbarium, or birdhouse. The mystic significance of the Guf is that each person is important and has a unique role which only he or she, with his or her unique soul, can fulfill. Even a newborn baby brings the Messiah closer simply by being born.
The peculiar idiom of describing the treasury of souls as a "body" may be connected to the mythic tradition of Adam Kadmon, the primordial man. Adam Kadmon, God's "original intention" for humanity, was a supernal being, androgynous and macro-cosmic (co-equal in size with the universe). When this Adam sinned, humanity was demoted to the flesh and blood, bifurcated and mortal creatures we are now. According to Kabbalah, every human soul is just a fragment (or fragments) cycling out of the great "world-soul" of Adam Kadmon. Hence, every human soul comes from the guf [of Adam Kadmon].
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guf
And that is why I stick to the Bible
Well He obviously created us at some point- because unlike Him, we had a beginning. I personally believe He creates our soul when He creates our body. Curiousity questions can be intriguing, and we may have to wait this lifetime to find out. But everything we NEED to know is in the Bible. Still it's good to ponder such things.
You do know that you experienced an angel of light... a demonic experience don't you???
Out of body experiences and speaking with the dead (those that have departed from this world) is not something that is scriptural.
satan loves to do this to get people all caught up in experiences and feelings rather than God's Word.... deception follows encounters like this, the first one being the person believing it was of God... it was from the god of this world since we know the true God does not sanction contacting the dead.
Out of body experiences and speaking with the dead (those that have departed from this world) is not something that is scriptural.
satan loves to do this to get people all caught up in experiences and feelings rather than God's Word.... deception follows encounters like this, the first one being the person believing it was of God... it was from the god of this world since we know the true God does not sanction contacting the dead.
Last edited: