Lies

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resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#41
Dec 19, 2009
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#41
maxwel said:
ONE MORE POINT:

D. Even if it IS morally justifiable, at times, for frail, fallen humans to lie... LIES are AGAINST GOD'S NATURE. He CANNOT LIE, neither can he GIVE US A MANDATE TO LIE. It is simply antithetical to his nature, and he cannot do it.




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If you were hiding Jews during World War II so that the Nazis couldn't kill them, and if the Nazis came to you and asked you if you knew where the Jews were, I hope you would have lied and said, "No."
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#42
#42
Why hide and then say 'yes, I have some'?
I'd not hide them in the first place. I answer to God for me. If it were my lot to die for Christ, I wouldn't ask to be hidden. It's a form of denial imo.
resurrection33 said:
If you were hiding Jews during World War II so that the Nazis couldn't kill them, and if the Nazis came to you and asked you if you knew where the Jews were, I hope you would have lied and said, "No."
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maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#43
Apr 18, 2013
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#43
resurrection33 said:
If you were hiding Jews during World War II so that the Nazis couldn't kill them, and if the Nazis came to you and asked you if you knew where the Jews were, I hope you would have lied and said, "No."
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I have never turned a Jew over to the Nazis.

To date, it remains my conviction to never turn any Jews over to the Nazis.

: )

My point, in my long and tedious post, was simply that God CANNOT tell us to lie, nor does he NEED to tell us to lie... we simply do it by our nature.

Whether we have good intentions or bad intentions, God never needs to tell us to lie.
It's already part of our nature.


PLEASE NOTE:

1. Nowhere did I address MAN'S OBLIGATION to LIE or NOT LIE under SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES....
I never addressed that at all.

2. All I did was examine some biblical and philosophical issues surrounding this conundrum.

3. People often don't need to be told what to do. They often make good decisions if they just think about what the bible says, and what it doesn't say... and why each of these are as they are.






 
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resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#44
Dec 19, 2009
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#44
HisHolly said:
Why hide and then say 'yes, I have some'?
I'd not hide them in the first place. I answer to God for me. If it were my lot to die for Christ, I wouldn't ask to be hidden. It's a form of denial imo.
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I am very disappointed in you! Such courage and compassion had those who hid the Jews from the Nazis!
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#45
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
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#45
HisHolly said:
Why hide and then say 'yes, I have some'?
I'd not hide them in the first place. I answer to God for me. If it were my lot to die for Christ, I wouldn't ask to be hidden. It's a form of denial imo.
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Are you saying we should have submitted to Adolf Hitler and the Nazis and let them rule the world?
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#46
#46
You're not the first. Besides, I have a son of whom I'm the only living parent. His life comes before anyone. I don't get into situations that could put him or I at risk. That's just that
resurrection33 said:
I am very disappointed in you! Such courage and compassion had those who hid the Jews from the Nazis!
Click to expand...
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#47
Dec 19, 2009
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#47
HisHolly said:
You're not the first. Besides, I have a son of whom I'm the only living parent. His life comes before anyone. I don't get into situations that could put him or I at risk. That's just that
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And would you defend him if he was threatened?
 
F

Faith37

Guest
#48
#48
Our God is the God of TRUTH. He is real, genuine, and there is no lie in Him. The opposite of truth is a lie. And Satan is the father of them! (John 8:44) It wasn't even possible for Jesus to speak lies of any kind because He was Truth itself. How can we, then, justify any falsehood? Even our yes should be yes and our no should be no. Any elaboration is of the evil one (Matt. 5:37).
"Therefore having put off the lie, speak truth each one with his neighbor, for we are members one of another" (Eph. 4:25).
 
F

Faith37

Guest
#49
#49
I had not read the posts re. hiding Jews from Nazi's when I just posted. Oh my...that IS an extreme conundrum. Fortunately our God is also LOVE. A new commandment He gave to us...that we would love our neighbor as ourselves. And I would likely be hiding from the Nazi's as well! :eek:
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#50
#50
resurrection33 said:
wwjd_kilden gave the perfect answer in her post. She pointed out that the Nazis were trying to exterminate the Jews during World War II. There were Christians, though, who were helping the Jews hide and escape. If you were one of those Christians and a Nazi asked you if you were hiding Jews, what would you say?
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"Would I be crazy enough to tell you if I was? I'm not a Jew. Why would I hide them?"
 
Whassup

Whassup

Banned
#51
Oct 31, 2016
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#51
Would you consider it a sin to tell a white lie? What I mean by that is to tell a lie in order to protect the other person.
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It is a sin to deceive, and telling a lie is to deceive.

If you cannot truthfully answer a question... just don't answer it.

Tell them you cannot talk about it. If you are under oath in a court of law, plead the 5th.


"Would I be crazy enough to tell you if I was? I'm not a Jew. Why would I hide them?"
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It would be an honor for any Christian to help the Jews... back then, or now.
 
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D

Depleted

Guest
#54
#54
Whassup said:
It is a sin to deceive, and telling a lie is to deceive.

If you cannot truthfully answer a question... just don't answer it.

Tell them you cannot talk about it. If you are under oath in a court of law, plead the 5th.




It would be an honor for any Christian to help the Jews... back then, or now.
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​If it is a sin to deceive, then Jesus sinned. Lots of times he told the truth deceptively.

And, you took my words out of context. I was answering Res's question. How would I not lie, but deceptively. "Would I be crazy enough to tell you if I was? I'm not a Jew. Why would I hide them?" I would have a smaller basement too, because half of it would be a hiding place.

It's really not a fair question to ask though. Holly thinks she'd be protecting her child by not hiding Jews. In truth, the real Christians were taken away too. Schools teach us 6 million Jews were killed by the Nazis. 13 million were killed by the Nazis. The homosexuals, the artists, the disabled, and the real Christians were taken right along with the Jews.

I couldn't hide anyone in my basement because I'd be killed on two counts in the first wave.

How easy it is to guess what we'd do if... especially given we don't know the full story of then, or now.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#55
#55
resurrection33 said:
If you said that, the Nazis would search your home and find the Jews.
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​Keep dreaming your what-if scenarios. Reality already said they'd check anyway. At least I know the history.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#56
Mar 13, 2014
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Tennessee
#56
Amazing-Grace said:
Hey guys what are your thoughts on lying? Would you consider it a sin to tell a white lie? What I mean by that is to tell a lie in order to protect the other person. I would appreciate thoughts on this.
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Obviously, if the truth that is known would hurt the other person, there would be no malicious intent to harm, so therefore that white lie is not really a lie at all and there would be no sin committed.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#57
Mar 13, 2014
42,550
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Tennessee
#57
resurrection33 said:
wwjd_kilden gave the perfect answer in her post. She pointed out that the Nazis were trying to exterminate the Jews during World War II. There were Christians, though, who were helping the Jews hide and escape. If you were one of those Christians and a Nazi asked you if you were hiding Jews, what would you say?
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I would tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#58
Dec 19, 2009
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#58
Depleted said:
​Keep dreaming your what-if scenarios. Reality already said they'd check anyway. At least I know the history.
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I'm glad you know the history. I'd like to think you'd be one of those who were trying to help the Jews, even if it meant lying to the Nazis.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#60
Jul 3, 2015
59,828
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#60
Depleted said:
AG? Did you ever get the answer you needed?
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LOL. Are you on another one of your witch hunts? She's certainly getting answers. She didn't like mine, though. Deceiving and deluding people with lies was called "trivial."
 
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