"replacement theology" - what is it?
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Dcontroversal,
There is a barrier that cannot be crossed regarding the church. Scripture is clear that the seals, trumpets and bowls judgment, which are the wrath of God, must take place prior to Christ's return to the earth to end the age, which is what Matt.24:29-31 and Rev.19:11-21 is representing. Therefore, if you have the church being resurrected at the end of the age, you are then putting them through the entire wrath of God, which scripture states that we are not appointed to suffer and which Jesus rescued us from.
You would also have to explain who is riding on those white horses following Christ out of heaven to end the age in Rev.19:14. Scripture identifies these on white horses as the bride/church, His called, chosen and faithful followers (Rev.17:14), which would demonstrate that in order for the church to follow Christ out of heaven, they would already have to be in heaven. It is the comparison and cross referencing of all of these truths regarding end-time events and bringing them into alignment in order to come to a proper conclusion.
Your error above is not discerning that there is a difference between common trial and tribulation which comes at the hands of men and the powers of darkness vs. God's coming wrath. Those whom you mention above that have been persecuted for 2000 years were/are experiencing common trials and tribulation from the world, which Jesus said we would suffer. That said, those people were/are not suffering from God's direct wrath.
The wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be an unprecedented time of wrath that has been prophesied of by the prophets and the apostles. It is during the time of this coming wrath that believers are not appointed to suffer. There is a big difference between the tribulation that you are describing above vs. God's coming wrath. You see, Jesus already took upon himself the wrath that all believers deserve and thereby satisfying God's wrath against us. Understand the difference between these two.
There is a barrier that cannot be crossed regarding the church. Scripture is clear that the seals, trumpets and bowls judgment, which are the wrath of God, must take place prior to Christ's return to the earth to end the age, which is what Matt.24:29-31 and Rev.19:11-21 is representing. Therefore, if you have the church being resurrected at the end of the age, you are then putting them through the entire wrath of God, which scripture states that we are not appointed to suffer and which Jesus rescued us from.
You would also have to explain who is riding on those white horses following Christ out of heaven to end the age in Rev.19:14. Scripture identifies these on white horses as the bride/church, His called, chosen and faithful followers (Rev.17:14), which would demonstrate that in order for the church to follow Christ out of heaven, they would already have to be in heaven. It is the comparison and cross referencing of all of these truths regarding end-time events and bringing them into alignment in order to come to a proper conclusion.
Your error above is not discerning that there is a difference between common trial and tribulation which comes at the hands of men and the powers of darkness vs. God's coming wrath. Those whom you mention above that have been persecuted for 2000 years were/are experiencing common trials and tribulation from the world, which Jesus said we would suffer. That said, those people were/are not suffering from God's direct wrath.
The wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be an unprecedented time of wrath that has been prophesied of by the prophets and the apostles. It is during the time of this coming wrath that believers are not appointed to suffer. There is a big difference between the tribulation that you are describing above vs. God's coming wrath. You see, Jesus already took upon himself the wrath that all believers deserve and thereby satisfying God's wrath against us. Understand the difference between these two.
R
...sorry. I was interested and started off reading, but it's too much text; no breaks etc.
shorten it make it easier to read, please
come on now. I liked the first two lines
shorten it make it easier to read, please
come on now. I liked the first two lines
There are the OT Saints... These are the ones that were in Sheol (a part of Hell) and Jesus took them to Heaven when He died / ascended .
There are the "caught-up" Harpozo---Saints.
There are the Martyred Saints ( Rev.6:9).."And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held"......NOTE: These are most likely the people who know about Jesus Christ but for one reason or another were left Behind.
There are the "Tribulaton Saints" ..These Saints are the ones that the 144,000 have preached to and brought to Christ. They too have tied but did so during the tribulations.
There are those People that Live through the Tribulations (Gentiles and Jews); that believe in Jesus Christ. These are the ones that will populate the earth for the Millennium. While some of their offspring will die here, the original will not die. They will become the last group of Saints into heaven. NOTE: all the Jews that live through the seven year tribulations will NOT die because God will install his spirit within them all.
So you admit that church and saints are used interchangeably through the NT. Now just cite the literal passage that says suddenly the words became 2 different things somehow, between Rev 3 & 4. Because, would it not have been the simpliest of things for the Holy Spirit to have inserted one line between those chapters (remember, the divisions did not come for a thousand years after Christ, and chapter and book are not "inspired" like the text!) saying that, "oh yes the church had been raptured??" Oh right, the word "rapture" appears no where in the Bible, Greek or English!
PS By definition, a Christian is one who follows Christ. The term "backsliding" doesn't appear in the Bible either, which you are implying. Because, there is only one judgement, when Christ returns. There will be no second chances for people who have had no real change of heart nor for the Jews who have rejected Christ.
You misunderstood me. I know the tribe of Joseph is listed in Revelation. The whole point is that there is no Tribe of Joseph anywhere else in the Bible. Joseph had two Sons Ephraim and Manasseh. Jacob blessed them and they became
two tribes. There is no seperate tribe of Joseph anywhere else outside revelation. However Ephraim is missing in Revelations list which is strange because it appears quite often as the name of Israel ten tribes.
two tribes. There is no seperate tribe of Joseph anywhere else outside revelation. However Ephraim is missing in Revelations list which is strange because it appears quite often as the name of Israel ten tribes.
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I've always recognized that. That fact that they are not used interchangeably here in Revelation is exactly one of the reasons for understanding that there is a distinction being made here:
Revelation 1 thru 3 = Ekklesia/church, but no hagios/saint
Revelation 4 onward = Hagios/saint, but no church
As I said in an earlier post, if both church and saint were used interchangeably throughout Revelation, then there would not be an issue. It is the abrupt disuse of the word ekklesia/church after the end of chapter 3 that should get everyone's attention.
The other issue that is related to this, and as I have listed on many posts, is in Rev.1:19 when John is told to write the following:
What you have seen = Everything from 1:1 thru 1:19
What is now = The letters to the seven churches, which also represents the entire church period, i.e. what is now
What will take place later = The events that take place after the "what is now" i.e. after the church period.
When the Lord appears and gathers the church prior to the opening of the 1st seal which is the beginning of His wrath, that will bring the "what is now" i.e. the church period to its end and the "what must take place later" will commence. This along with the disuse of the ekklesia/church after the end of chapter 3 also supports the fact that the church is no longer on the earth from that point on, as it is never mentioned.
The "what must take place later" represents the pouring out of God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which is referred to in Rev.1:1 regarding the "things that must soon take place," i.e. God's wrath.
I believe that the "voice that sounds like a trumpet" of Rev.4:1 is synonymous with the "trumpet call of God" referred to in 1 Thes.4:16. I believe that Rev.4:1 is prophetic of the church being caught up.
I personally prefer to stick with the Greek, as I never refer to the gathering of the church as the rapture. The correct word is "harpazo" which is defined as force suddenly exercised, a snatching away, catching away. The same word is used when Paul said that he was "caught up" to the third heaven and when Philip was "caught away" from the eunuch, and when the male child is "caught up" to God and his throne. The English word "rapture" comes from the Latin Rapio which means to seize or snatch in relation to an ecstasy of spirit or the actual removal from one place to another. Therefore, the word Rapio is the Latin version of Harpazo, both conveying the same meaning.
After the church has been removed, there will many who will come to Christ known as the great tribulation saints who will come out of every tribe, people, nations and laguages (Gentiles). The other groups that will be on the earth during that time will be the woman/Israel, and out of her will come the 144,000, twelve thousand from each of the twelve tribes who will acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah and who will be the first fruits to God out of Israel.
The opportunity to be saved will be in operation all the way up until the 7th bowl judgment, which completes God's wrath (Rev.15:1).
E
Am I in a land where I am protected from my enemies, Where I live in peace. Where my enemy tries to come in, and they are stopped by God. they run when no on chases after them My farms are in plenty because there is always rain in season.?
Well of course not. God never promised ME these things, or my COUNTRY these things.
so I would not even expect no matter how much I follow God. to recieve any of these things... Nor should ANYONE else. because God never promised ANY induvidual (jew or gentile) these things, Only A NATION.
want proof. Daniel was a beloved man of God, so beloved, the arch angel Gabriel was sent to comfort him and give him wisdom a few times. Yet he lived as a slave to a gentile king, because hie NATION sinned against God.
You will find there are a 'Baker's Dozen" tribes..(13) Both sons of Joseph founded a tribe yet both sons founded only one Tribe (Joseph). The Bible uses his sons as tribes in different verses that call for different meanings. There are passages that remove the tribe Levi to make a statement. There are many other statements made by using the 'Baker's Dozen'.