Deborah - The Judge
- Thread starter KJV1611
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I would agree it where the trouble begins because they refuse to walk by faith (the unseen eternal).
I would suggest it was because they walked by sight after their own religious works of their own hands that they experienced, (ceremonial laws) and therefore did not walk by faith.
Whenever a Judge or a Prophet would die men were quick to replace them with another man (outward appearance) making the word of God , prophecy, without effect.
Because God knew beforehand, when Moses finished writing the Bible,” the book of the law” he was commanded to place it on the side of the ark as a witness to that which was inside. The mana to show there rebellion (a sign to the rebellious) that God might make know that man does not live by bread only, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of the LORD does man live.
Another , Arron’s staff that produced fruit again a sign of rebellious.
Numbers 17:10 And the LORD said unto Moses, Bring Aaron's rod again before the testimony, to be kept for a token against the rebels; and thou shalt quite take away their murmurings from me, that they die not.
And the stone tablets which this time Moses hewn the out and with the finger of God again he wrote seeing the first set was destroyed as a sign to show their rebellion.
It is a theme shown throughout the scriptures Signs are for those who believe not , prophecy for those who do believe the word of God. The commandment below must be obeyed.
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Looking back at the ark and Moses.
Hebrews 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
I think Deuteronomy speaks directly to the issue.
And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of "writing the words" of this law in a book, until they were finished,That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. Deu 31:24
I would suggest it was because they walked by sight after their own religious works of their own hands that they experienced, (ceremonial laws) and therefore did not walk by faith.
Whenever a Judge or a Prophet would die men were quick to replace them with another man (outward appearance) making the word of God , prophecy, without effect.
Because God knew beforehand, when Moses finished writing the Bible,” the book of the law” he was commanded to place it on the side of the ark as a witness to that which was inside. The mana to show there rebellion (a sign to the rebellious) that God might make know that man does not live by bread only, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of the LORD does man live.
Another , Arron’s staff that produced fruit again a sign of rebellious.
Numbers 17:10 And the LORD said unto Moses, Bring Aaron's rod again before the testimony, to be kept for a token against the rebels; and thou shalt quite take away their murmurings from me, that they die not.
And the stone tablets which this time Moses hewn the out and with the finger of God again he wrote seeing the first set was destroyed as a sign to show their rebellion.
It is a theme shown throughout the scriptures Signs are for those who believe not , prophecy for those who do believe the word of God. The commandment below must be obeyed.
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Looking back at the ark and Moses.
Hebrews 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
I think Deuteronomy speaks directly to the issue.
And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of "writing the words" of this law in a book, until they were finished,That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. Deu 31:24
They did not appoint a judge it was God who performed that .They resisted it and wanted a outward representative like all the Pagan nations of the world of this world because of their jealously for that pagan tradition. It was not the Judges that they rejected as ruiling over them but God himself.
He temporally sent them a strong delusion to believe the lies. It was reformed at the time of refomation and restored to another time period when there was no Kings.(outward representation)
And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. According to "all the works" which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.1Sa 8:7
He temporally sent them a strong delusion to believe the lies. It was reformed at the time of refomation and restored to another time period when there was no Kings.(outward representation)
And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. According to "all the works" which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.1Sa 8:7
L
uh
what you quote from I Samuel above, concerns Israel wanting a king...it is not talking about the period of the judges
why are you jumping all over the place?
the book of Judges actually explains itself quite well...what you are posting here...I'm sorry...just does not make any sense and is not accurate
where does it say that the Judges were resisted?
source? I'm not even sure what you are talking about here........
Samuel23 said: Just because a particular woman thinks a man is weak and ineffectual does not mean that he is weak and ineffectual in the sight of God...maybe she has the problem in trying to take over.
The Bible says, you will know them by their fruits (Mat 7:15-20). Therefore, it could also be that the man is weak and ineffective, and his behavior (lack of fruit) exposes just how weak and ineffective he is. The people around him (women included) will notice his lack of fruit, weakness and ineffectiveness. It doesn't take a genius to notice when someone (man or woman) is weak, ineffective and lacks the fruit of the spirit.
Samuel23 said, “I don't think the bible ever said that God raised her up to be a judge.”
10After that whole generation had been gathered to their ancestors, another generation grew up who knew neither the Lord nor what he had done for Israel. 11Then the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the Lord and served the Baals. 12They forsook the Lord, the God of their ancestors, who had brought them out of Egypt. They followed and worshiped various gods of the peoples around them. They aroused the Lord’s anger 13because they forsook him and served Baal and the Ashtoreths. 14In his anger against Israel the Lord gave them into the hands of raiders who plundered them. He sold them into the hands of their enemies all around, whom they were no longer able to resist. 15Whenever Israel went out to fight, the hand of the Lord was against them to defeat them, just as he had sworn to them. They were in great distress. 16Then the Lord raised up judges,who saved them out of the hands of these raiders. (JUDGES 2:10-16).
The Bible lists Deborah as one of the judges raised up by God. The Bible also records her testimony. NOWHERE in the Bible does it tell us that Deborah was not raised up by God. That's not in the Bible.
Samuel23 said, “There is a woman who really did reign over the men in Israel, Athaliah, she was very evil.”
Queen Esther wasn't evil, and she also held some authority over men. I did a post about that on another thread.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146121-women-pastors-help-me-26.html#post2926665
Queen Atahaliah and Jezebel were evil. There is absolutely no denying that. Likewise, so were multiple (probably most) kings of Israel in the Bible:
God promised King Jeroboam, the son of Nebat, a secure kingdom and a long lasting dynasty if he would trust the LORD, but Jeroboam didn't believe God would deliver on his promise. In order to achieve security, he abolished the national worship of the LORD and inaugurated the golden calf cult. Sexual immorality had long been part of calf worship. Jeroboam led the children of Israel into sin against God (1 Ki 11:25 - 14:20; 2 Ch 10:1 - 13:20).
Jeroboam became the prototype of an evil king. Several kings who ruled after him followed his example and continued to lead the children of Israel into sin.
Nadab became king over Israel during the second year of the reign of King Asa over Judah. He reigned over Israel for two years, practicing what the LORD considered to be evil, living the way his father did, committing sins, and leading Israel to sin (1 Ki 15:25-26).
Later, a message came from the LORD to Hanani's son Jehu. It was directed to rebuke Baasha, and this is what it said: I raised you from the dirt to become Commander-in-Chief over my people Israel, but you've been living like Jeroboam, you've been leading my people Israel into sin, and you've been provoking me to anger with their sins (1 Ki 16:2).
When Zimri observed that the city had been captured, he retreated into the king's palace, set fire to the citadel, and died when the palace burned down around him because of the sins that he committed by doing what the LORD considered to be evil, living like Jeroboam did, and sinning so as to lead Israel into sin (1 Kings 16:18).
Omri practiced what the LORD considered to be evil, doing far more evil than anyone who had reigned before him. He lived just like Nebat's son Jeroboam, and by his sin he led Israel into sin, provoking the LORD God of Israel with their idolatry (1 Ki 16:25).
Ahab asked Elijah, "So you've found me, my enemy?" Elijah answered, "I found you. Because you sold yourself to do what the LORD considers evil. 21So I am going to bring evil on you. I will destroy your descendants. I will destroy every male in Ahab's [house], whether slave or freeman in Israel. 22 I will make your family like the family of Jeroboam (Nebat's son) and like the house of Baasha, son of Ahijah, because you made me furious. You led Israel to sin." (1 Ki 21:20-22)
Ahab's son Ahaziah became king over Israel in Samaria in the seventeenth year of King Jehoshaphat of Judah. He reigned for two years over Israel. He practiced what the Lord considered to be evil by living life like his father and mother did. He lived like Nebat's son Jeroboam, who led Israel into sin (1 Ki 22:51).
Jehoahaz son of Jehu began to rule over Israel in the twenty-third year of King Joash’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria seventeen years. 2 But he did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He followed the example of Jeroboam son of Nebat, continuing the sins that Jeroboam had led Israel to commit. 3 So the LORD was very angry with Israel, and he allowed King Hazael of Aram and his son Ben-hadad to defeat them repeatedly (2 Ki 13:1-3).
Jehoash son of Jehoahaz began to rule over Israel in the thirty-seventh year of King Joash’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria sixteen years. 11But he did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Ki 13:10-11).
Jeroboam II, the son of Jehoash, began to rule over Israel in the fifteenth year of King Amaziah’s reign in Judah. Jeroboam reigned in Samaria forty-one years. 24He did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Ki 14:23-24).
Zechariah son of Jeroboam II began to rule over Israel in the thirty-eighth year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria six months. 9 Zechariah did what was evil in the LORD’s sight, as his ancestors had done. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:8-9).
Menahem son of Gadi began to rule over Israel in the thirty-ninth year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria ten years. 18 But Menahem did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. During his entire reign, he refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:17-18).
Pekahiah son of Menahem began to rule over Israel in the fiftieth year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria two years. 24But Pekahiah did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:23-24).
Pekah son of Remaliah began to rule over Israel in the fifty-second year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria twenty years. 28But Pekah did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:27-28).
King Saul was ineffective. He made a DECISION that displeased God (2 Sam 21:2). As a result, famine came upon the land. In order to right Saul’s wrong, 7 of his sons were killed.
You generally don't find many patriarchy supporters (and/or others who are so willing to discredit women) spotlighting the fact that multiple (probably most) of the kings of Israel listed in the Bible were evil and ineffective leaders. The list of God fearing kings in Israel is a much shorter list. In addition to the kings of Israel, there are plenty of other examples of evil and ineffective men in authority (masters, husbands, fathers) listed in the Bible too.
The Bible says, you will know them by their fruits (Mat 7:15-20). Therefore, it could also be that the man is weak and ineffective, and his behavior (lack of fruit) exposes just how weak and ineffective he is. The people around him (women included) will notice his lack of fruit, weakness and ineffectiveness. It doesn't take a genius to notice when someone (man or woman) is weak, ineffective and lacks the fruit of the spirit.
Samuel23 said, “I don't think the bible ever said that God raised her up to be a judge.”
10After that whole generation had been gathered to their ancestors, another generation grew up who knew neither the Lord nor what he had done for Israel. 11Then the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the Lord and served the Baals. 12They forsook the Lord, the God of their ancestors, who had brought them out of Egypt. They followed and worshiped various gods of the peoples around them. They aroused the Lord’s anger 13because they forsook him and served Baal and the Ashtoreths. 14In his anger against Israel the Lord gave them into the hands of raiders who plundered them. He sold them into the hands of their enemies all around, whom they were no longer able to resist. 15Whenever Israel went out to fight, the hand of the Lord was against them to defeat them, just as he had sworn to them. They were in great distress. 16Then the Lord raised up judges,who saved them out of the hands of these raiders. (JUDGES 2:10-16).
The Bible lists Deborah as one of the judges raised up by God. The Bible also records her testimony. NOWHERE in the Bible does it tell us that Deborah was not raised up by God. That's not in the Bible.
Samuel23 said, “There is a woman who really did reign over the men in Israel, Athaliah, she was very evil.”
Queen Esther wasn't evil, and she also held some authority over men. I did a post about that on another thread.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146121-women-pastors-help-me-26.html#post2926665
Queen Atahaliah and Jezebel were evil. There is absolutely no denying that. Likewise, so were multiple (probably most) kings of Israel in the Bible:
God promised King Jeroboam, the son of Nebat, a secure kingdom and a long lasting dynasty if he would trust the LORD, but Jeroboam didn't believe God would deliver on his promise. In order to achieve security, he abolished the national worship of the LORD and inaugurated the golden calf cult. Sexual immorality had long been part of calf worship. Jeroboam led the children of Israel into sin against God (1 Ki 11:25 - 14:20; 2 Ch 10:1 - 13:20).
Jeroboam became the prototype of an evil king. Several kings who ruled after him followed his example and continued to lead the children of Israel into sin.
Nadab became king over Israel during the second year of the reign of King Asa over Judah. He reigned over Israel for two years, practicing what the LORD considered to be evil, living the way his father did, committing sins, and leading Israel to sin (1 Ki 15:25-26).
Later, a message came from the LORD to Hanani's son Jehu. It was directed to rebuke Baasha, and this is what it said: I raised you from the dirt to become Commander-in-Chief over my people Israel, but you've been living like Jeroboam, you've been leading my people Israel into sin, and you've been provoking me to anger with their sins (1 Ki 16:2).
When Zimri observed that the city had been captured, he retreated into the king's palace, set fire to the citadel, and died when the palace burned down around him because of the sins that he committed by doing what the LORD considered to be evil, living like Jeroboam did, and sinning so as to lead Israel into sin (1 Kings 16:18).
Omri practiced what the LORD considered to be evil, doing far more evil than anyone who had reigned before him. He lived just like Nebat's son Jeroboam, and by his sin he led Israel into sin, provoking the LORD God of Israel with their idolatry (1 Ki 16:25).
Ahab asked Elijah, "So you've found me, my enemy?" Elijah answered, "I found you. Because you sold yourself to do what the LORD considers evil. 21So I am going to bring evil on you. I will destroy your descendants. I will destroy every male in Ahab's [house], whether slave or freeman in Israel. 22 I will make your family like the family of Jeroboam (Nebat's son) and like the house of Baasha, son of Ahijah, because you made me furious. You led Israel to sin." (1 Ki 21:20-22)
Ahab's son Ahaziah became king over Israel in Samaria in the seventeenth year of King Jehoshaphat of Judah. He reigned for two years over Israel. He practiced what the Lord considered to be evil by living life like his father and mother did. He lived like Nebat's son Jeroboam, who led Israel into sin (1 Ki 22:51).
Jehoahaz son of Jehu began to rule over Israel in the twenty-third year of King Joash’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria seventeen years. 2 But he did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He followed the example of Jeroboam son of Nebat, continuing the sins that Jeroboam had led Israel to commit. 3 So the LORD was very angry with Israel, and he allowed King Hazael of Aram and his son Ben-hadad to defeat them repeatedly (2 Ki 13:1-3).
Jehoash son of Jehoahaz began to rule over Israel in the thirty-seventh year of King Joash’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria sixteen years. 11But he did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Ki 13:10-11).
Jeroboam II, the son of Jehoash, began to rule over Israel in the fifteenth year of King Amaziah’s reign in Judah. Jeroboam reigned in Samaria forty-one years. 24He did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Ki 14:23-24).
Zechariah son of Jeroboam II began to rule over Israel in the thirty-eighth year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria six months. 9 Zechariah did what was evil in the LORD’s sight, as his ancestors had done. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:8-9).
Menahem son of Gadi began to rule over Israel in the thirty-ninth year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria ten years. 18 But Menahem did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. During his entire reign, he refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:17-18).
Pekahiah son of Menahem began to rule over Israel in the fiftieth year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria two years. 24But Pekahiah did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:23-24).
Pekah son of Remaliah began to rule over Israel in the fifty-second year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria twenty years. 28But Pekah did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:27-28).
King Saul was ineffective. He made a DECISION that displeased God (2 Sam 21:2). As a result, famine came upon the land. In order to right Saul’s wrong, 7 of his sons were killed.
You generally don't find many patriarchy supporters (and/or others who are so willing to discredit women) spotlighting the fact that multiple (probably most) of the kings of Israel listed in the Bible were evil and ineffective leaders. The list of God fearing kings in Israel is a much shorter list. In addition to the kings of Israel, there are plenty of other examples of evil and ineffective men in authority (masters, husbands, fathers) listed in the Bible too.
there are some really good posts here, but the other spirit, the 'spirit-of-contention'
and the 'I only knows', and the lack of needing to learn and listen, is a big 'turn-off' for us both...
like it is written in 11TIM.2:15-17, 'avoid????
we love to learn from our brothers and sisters, but if we reach an un-profitable 'cross-roads',
we prefer-to-bow-out, lest we become 'unfruitful and entangled in vain conversation'...
and the 'I only knows', and the lack of needing to learn and listen, is a big 'turn-off' for us both...
like it is written in 11TIM.2:15-17, 'avoid????
we love to learn from our brothers and sisters, but if we reach an un-profitable 'cross-roads',
we prefer-to-bow-out, lest we become 'unfruitful and entangled in vain conversation'...
L
well that's fine then
some of prefer to thrash it out until we gain better understanding
notice though, no name calling and telling others they are going to hell?
maybe you don't understand how a debate works?
I don't know why you think that is unprofitable...if it is to you, well....not sure why you think you have to kind of seem to be trying to tell participants that they don't meet your standards
L
yeah...I got back to Samuel...at some length...we actually agree on something specific...so that was good
but I like your answers...thorough and backed by scripture!
proverbs35;2939933
Samuel23 said: Just because a particular woman thinks a man is weak and ineffectual does not mean that he is weak and ineffectual in the sight of God...maybe she has the problem in trying to take over.
The Bible says, you will know them by their fruits (Mat 7:15-20). Therefore, it could also be that the man is weak and ineffective, and his behavior (lack of fruit) exposes just how weak and ineffective he is. The people around him (women included) will notice his lack of fruit, weakness and ineffectiveness. It doesn't take a genius to notice when someone (man or woman) is weak, ineffective and lacks the fruit of the spirit.
well exactly...there is no denying the fact that some men just don't cut it, yet they pull out the 'wives submit to your husbands' verse and never get to the husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it...and I am certainly not saying that is Samuel...but there is no need to immediately say to a woman who points that out, that is trying to usurp or take over...
Samuel23 said, “I don't think the bible ever said that God raised her up to be a judge.”
10After that whole generation had been gathered to their ancestors, another generation grew up who knew neither the Lord nor what he had done for Israel. 11Then the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the Lord and served the Baals. 12They forsook the Lord, the God of their ancestors, who had brought them out of Egypt. They followed and worshiped various gods of the peoples around them. They aroused the Lord’s anger 13because they forsook him and served Baal and the Ashtoreths. 14In his anger against Israel the Lord gave them into the hands of raiders who plundered them. He sold them into the hands of their enemies all around, whom they were no longer able to resist. 15Whenever Israel went out to fight, the hand of the Lord was against them to defeat them, just as he had sworn to them. They were in great distress. 16Then the Lord raised up judges,who saved them out of the hands of these raiders. (JUDGES 2:10-16).
The Bible lists Deborah as one of the judges raised up by God. The Bible also records her testimony. NOWHERE in the Bible does it tell us that Deborah was not raised up by God. That's not in the Bible.
been over that multiple times now...so thanks
Samuel23 said, “There is a woman who really did reign over the men in Israel, Athaliah, she was very evil.”
Queen Esther wasn't evil, and she also held some authority over men. I did a post about that on another thread.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146121-women-pastors-help-me-26.html#post2926665
Queen Atahaliah and Jezebel were evil. There is absolutely no denying that. Likewise, so were multiple (probably most) kings of Israel in the Bible:
seems to be the case if anyone is familiar with the OT...it can't be denied...and one was worse than the other
God promised King Jeroboam, the son of Nebat, a secure kingdom and a long lasting dynasty if he would trust the LORD, but Jeroboam didn't believe God would deliver on his promise. In order to achieve security, he abolished the national worship of the LORD and inaugurated the golden calf cult. Sexual immorality had long been part of calf worship. Jeroboam led the children of Israel into sin against God (1 Ki 11:25 - 14:20; 2 Ch 10:1 - 13:20).
Jeroboam became the prototype of an evil king. Several kings who ruled after him followed his example and continued to lead the children of Israel into sin.
Nadab became king over Israel during the second year of the reign of King Asa over Judah. He reigned over Israel for two years, practicing what the LORD considered to be evil, living the way his father did, committing sins, and leading Israel to sin (1 Ki 15:25-26).
Later, a message came from the LORD to Hanani's son Jehu. It was directed to rebuke Baasha, and this is what it said: I raised you from the dirt to become Commander-in-Chief over my people Israel, but you've been living like Jeroboam, you've been leading my people Israel into sin, and you've been provoking me to anger with their sins (1 Ki 16:2).
When Zimri observed that the city had been captured, he retreated into the king's palace, set fire to the citadel, and died when the palace burned down around him because of the sins that he committed by doing what the LORD considered to be evil, living like Jeroboam did, and sinning so as to lead Israel into sin (1 Kings 16:18).
Omri practiced what the LORD considered to be evil, doing far more evil than anyone who had reigned before him. He lived just like Nebat's son Jeroboam, and by his sin he led Israel into sin, provoking the LORD God of Israel with their idolatry (1 Ki 16:25).
Ahab asked Elijah, "So you've found me, my enemy?" Elijah answered, "I found you. Because you sold yourself to do what the LORD considers evil. 21So I am going to bring evil on you. I will destroy your descendants. I will destroy every male in Ahab's [house], whether slave or freeman in Israel. 22 I will make your family like the family of Jeroboam (Nebat's son) and like the house of Baasha, son of Ahijah, because you made me furious. You led Israel to sin." (1 Ki 21:20-22)
Ahab's son Ahaziah became king over Israel in Samaria in the seventeenth year of King Jehoshaphat of Judah. He reigned for two years over Israel. He practiced what the Lord considered to be evil by living life like his father and mother did. He lived like Nebat's son Jeroboam, who led Israel into sin (1 Ki 22:51).
Jehoahaz son of Jehu began to rule over Israel in the twenty-third year of King Joash’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria seventeen years. 2 But he did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He followed the example of Jeroboam son of Nebat, continuing the sins that Jeroboam had led Israel to commit. 3 So the LORD was very angry with Israel, and he allowed King Hazael of Aram and his son Ben-hadad to defeat them repeatedly (2 Ki 13:1-3).
Jehoash son of Jehoahaz began to rule over Israel in the thirty-seventh year of King Joash’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria sixteen years. 11But he did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Ki 13:10-11).
Jeroboam II, the son of Jehoash, began to rule over Israel in the fifteenth year of King Amaziah’s reign in Judah. Jeroboam reigned in Samaria forty-one years. 24He did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Ki 14:23-24).
Zechariah son of Jeroboam II began to rule over Israel in the thirty-eighth year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria six months. 9 Zechariah did what was evil in the LORD’s sight, as his ancestors had done. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:8-9).
Menahem son of Gadi began to rule over Israel in the thirty-ninth year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria ten years. 18 But Menahem did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. During his entire reign, he refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:17-18).
Pekahiah son of Menahem began to rule over Israel in the fiftieth year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria two years. 24But Pekahiah did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:23-24).
Pekah son of Remaliah began to rule over Israel in the fifty-second year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria twenty years. 28But Pekah did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:27-28).
King Saul was ineffective. He made a DECISION that displeased God (2 Sam 21:2). As a result, famine came upon the land. In order to right Saul’s wrong, 7 of his sons were killed.
You generally don't find many patriarchy supporters (and/or others who are so willing to discredit women) spotlighting the fact that multiple (probably most) of the kings of Israel listed in the Bible were evil and ineffective leaders. The list of God fearing kings in Israel is a much shorter list. In addition to the kings of Israel, there are plenty of other examples of evil and ineffective men in authority (masters, husbands, fathers) listed in the Bible too.
good point and one I have found to be true!
but I like your answers...thorough and backed by scripture!
proverbs35;2939933
Samuel23 said: Just because a particular woman thinks a man is weak and ineffectual does not mean that he is weak and ineffectual in the sight of God...maybe she has the problem in trying to take over.
The Bible says, you will know them by their fruits (Mat 7:15-20). Therefore, it could also be that the man is weak and ineffective, and his behavior (lack of fruit) exposes just how weak and ineffective he is. The people around him (women included) will notice his lack of fruit, weakness and ineffectiveness. It doesn't take a genius to notice when someone (man or woman) is weak, ineffective and lacks the fruit of the spirit.
well exactly...there is no denying the fact that some men just don't cut it, yet they pull out the 'wives submit to your husbands' verse and never get to the husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it...and I am certainly not saying that is Samuel...but there is no need to immediately say to a woman who points that out, that is trying to usurp or take over...
Samuel23 said, “I don't think the bible ever said that God raised her up to be a judge.”
10After that whole generation had been gathered to their ancestors, another generation grew up who knew neither the Lord nor what he had done for Israel. 11Then the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the Lord and served the Baals. 12They forsook the Lord, the God of their ancestors, who had brought them out of Egypt. They followed and worshiped various gods of the peoples around them. They aroused the Lord’s anger 13because they forsook him and served Baal and the Ashtoreths. 14In his anger against Israel the Lord gave them into the hands of raiders who plundered them. He sold them into the hands of their enemies all around, whom they were no longer able to resist. 15Whenever Israel went out to fight, the hand of the Lord was against them to defeat them, just as he had sworn to them. They were in great distress. 16Then the Lord raised up judges,who saved them out of the hands of these raiders. (JUDGES 2:10-16).
The Bible lists Deborah as one of the judges raised up by God. The Bible also records her testimony. NOWHERE in the Bible does it tell us that Deborah was not raised up by God. That's not in the Bible.
been over that multiple times now...so thanks
Samuel23 said, “There is a woman who really did reign over the men in Israel, Athaliah, she was very evil.”
Queen Esther wasn't evil, and she also held some authority over men. I did a post about that on another thread.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146121-women-pastors-help-me-26.html#post2926665
Queen Atahaliah and Jezebel were evil. There is absolutely no denying that. Likewise, so were multiple (probably most) kings of Israel in the Bible:
seems to be the case if anyone is familiar with the OT...it can't be denied...and one was worse than the other
God promised King Jeroboam, the son of Nebat, a secure kingdom and a long lasting dynasty if he would trust the LORD, but Jeroboam didn't believe God would deliver on his promise. In order to achieve security, he abolished the national worship of the LORD and inaugurated the golden calf cult. Sexual immorality had long been part of calf worship. Jeroboam led the children of Israel into sin against God (1 Ki 11:25 - 14:20; 2 Ch 10:1 - 13:20).
Jeroboam became the prototype of an evil king. Several kings who ruled after him followed his example and continued to lead the children of Israel into sin.
Nadab became king over Israel during the second year of the reign of King Asa over Judah. He reigned over Israel for two years, practicing what the LORD considered to be evil, living the way his father did, committing sins, and leading Israel to sin (1 Ki 15:25-26).
Later, a message came from the LORD to Hanani's son Jehu. It was directed to rebuke Baasha, and this is what it said: I raised you from the dirt to become Commander-in-Chief over my people Israel, but you've been living like Jeroboam, you've been leading my people Israel into sin, and you've been provoking me to anger with their sins (1 Ki 16:2).
When Zimri observed that the city had been captured, he retreated into the king's palace, set fire to the citadel, and died when the palace burned down around him because of the sins that he committed by doing what the LORD considered to be evil, living like Jeroboam did, and sinning so as to lead Israel into sin (1 Kings 16:18).
Omri practiced what the LORD considered to be evil, doing far more evil than anyone who had reigned before him. He lived just like Nebat's son Jeroboam, and by his sin he led Israel into sin, provoking the LORD God of Israel with their idolatry (1 Ki 16:25).
Ahab asked Elijah, "So you've found me, my enemy?" Elijah answered, "I found you. Because you sold yourself to do what the LORD considers evil. 21So I am going to bring evil on you. I will destroy your descendants. I will destroy every male in Ahab's [house], whether slave or freeman in Israel. 22 I will make your family like the family of Jeroboam (Nebat's son) and like the house of Baasha, son of Ahijah, because you made me furious. You led Israel to sin." (1 Ki 21:20-22)
Ahab's son Ahaziah became king over Israel in Samaria in the seventeenth year of King Jehoshaphat of Judah. He reigned for two years over Israel. He practiced what the Lord considered to be evil by living life like his father and mother did. He lived like Nebat's son Jeroboam, who led Israel into sin (1 Ki 22:51).
Jehoahaz son of Jehu began to rule over Israel in the twenty-third year of King Joash’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria seventeen years. 2 But he did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He followed the example of Jeroboam son of Nebat, continuing the sins that Jeroboam had led Israel to commit. 3 So the LORD was very angry with Israel, and he allowed King Hazael of Aram and his son Ben-hadad to defeat them repeatedly (2 Ki 13:1-3).
Jehoash son of Jehoahaz began to rule over Israel in the thirty-seventh year of King Joash’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria sixteen years. 11But he did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Ki 13:10-11).
Jeroboam II, the son of Jehoash, began to rule over Israel in the fifteenth year of King Amaziah’s reign in Judah. Jeroboam reigned in Samaria forty-one years. 24He did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Ki 14:23-24).
Zechariah son of Jeroboam II began to rule over Israel in the thirty-eighth year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria six months. 9 Zechariah did what was evil in the LORD’s sight, as his ancestors had done. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:8-9).
Menahem son of Gadi began to rule over Israel in the thirty-ninth year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria ten years. 18 But Menahem did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. During his entire reign, he refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:17-18).
Pekahiah son of Menahem began to rule over Israel in the fiftieth year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria two years. 24But Pekahiah did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:23-24).
Pekah son of Remaliah began to rule over Israel in the fifty-second year of King Uzziah’s reign in Judah. He reigned in Samaria twenty years. 28But Pekah did what was evil in the LORD’s sight. He refused to turn from the sins that Jeroboam son of Nebat had led Israel to commit (2 Kings 15:27-28).
King Saul was ineffective. He made a DECISION that displeased God (2 Sam 21:2). As a result, famine came upon the land. In order to right Saul’s wrong, 7 of his sons were killed.
You generally don't find many patriarchy supporters (and/or others who are so willing to discredit women) spotlighting the fact that multiple (probably most) of the kings of Israel listed in the Bible were evil and ineffective leaders. The list of God fearing kings in Israel is a much shorter list. In addition to the kings of Israel, there are plenty of other examples of evil and ineffective men in authority (masters, husbands, fathers) listed in the Bible too.
good point and one I have found to be true!
L
LOL!
nope...not at all
I answered generally, because I thought you were just kind of thinking out loud
if you want to actually give someone what for, maybe you should be direct and not beat around the bush
nah...I didn't take it personal at all...alot of people have complained about the BDF and with good reason...but no need to knock a thread where people are being civil
and by the way, why are shouting at me? LOL!
nope...not at all
I answered generally, because I thought you were just kind of thinking out loud
if you want to actually give someone what for, maybe you should be direct and not beat around the bush
nah...I didn't take it personal at all...alot of people have complained about the BDF and with good reason...but no need to knock a thread where people are being civil
and by the way, why are shouting at me? LOL!
Hi Grace777x70: If you are saying what it appears you are saying then I disagree vehemently. You seem to be saying that, if you perceive what you believe to be God speaking to you(in my mind)then that can be a greater representation of God speaking then the actual written word? If God through His word says that "I do not suffer a woman to take authority over a man in the church", then there is no way in this universe that God would then say to you, that it does not matter if a woman takes authority over a man in the church. The final representation of what God is saying is the word of God taken in context.
L
must be difficult to imagine yourself some kind of gate keeper to God
I'm sorry that is how you view things
I honestly do not know what bee you have in your bonnet, but I know I did not put it there
you could use those cookies...they were supposed to be a little joke...however, your attitude seemed not to have seen it that way
no worries...I won't respond to anything you post from here on in...
Last edited:
interesting
why did your puppy seem to disagree then?
frankly, I don't want authority over any man...they are too hard to manage...haha
however, you don't seem to 'acknowledge' that a judge DOES have the final say...aka AUTHORITY
but whatever.....
why did your puppy seem to disagree then?
frankly, I don't want authority over any man...they are too hard to manage...haha
however, you don't seem to 'acknowledge' that a judge DOES have the final say...aka AUTHORITY
but whatever.....
I believe when we try to "apply" the letter of the word without the Spirit bringing the reality of it through and to us.
Romans 7:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
Here Paul uses circumcision as an example.
Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
2 Corinthians 3:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
BTW...are you feeling better? I know you had a high temperature the other night.
Romans 7:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
Here Paul uses circumcision as an example.
Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
2 Corinthians 3:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
BTW...are you feeling better? I know you had a high temperature the other night.