The Old Covenant

tanakh · Jan 20, 2017

Luke 21 :22
For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

When Jesus spoke about the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, he made it quite clear that this was the fulfilment of all Old Testament prophecy and Law. Once Jerusalem was destroyed, then that was it. The Old Covenant was over, and the Law as an agreement between God and his people had expired.

Paul corroborates this in Hebrews, written circa 60AD, where he tells us that the Old Covenant has waxed old and is decayed, and is on the point of vanishing.

A lot of those whom I would call 'reprobate' Christians, will argue long and hard, either on the basis of misapplication of Scripture, or because they are pickled in the vinegar of Zionism, that the state of Israel is God's bit on the side, and much as he loves the Church, the real Israel, he just really can't get over his old flame, and will tolerate any behaviour from her, just as long as he can hold her in his arms again.

This is really nonsense. God is not a man. He is a God of justice. He will always accept anybody who renounces sin and comes to him through Christ, but he has no ongoing thing for the land of Israel or the earthly City of Jerusalem.

Jeremiah 19 makes this plain:

19 Thus saith the Lord, Go and get a potter's earthen bottle, and take of the ancients of the people, and of the ancients of the priests;
2 And go forth unto the valley of the son of Hinnom, which is by the entry of the east gate, and proclaim there the words that I shall tell thee,
3 And say, Hear ye the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle.
4 Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents;
5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:
6 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.
7 And I will make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place; and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hands of them that seek their lives: and their carcases will I give to be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.
8 And I will make this city desolate, and an hissing; every one that passeth thereby shall be astonished and hiss because of all the plagues thereof.
9 And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend in the siege and straitness, wherewith their enemies, and they that seek their lives, shall straiten them.
10 Then shalt thou break the bottle in the sight of the men that go with thee,
11 And shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Even so will I break this people and this city, as one breaketh a potter's vessel,that cannot be made whole again: and they shall bury them in Tophet, till there be no place to bury.
12 Thus will I do unto this place, saith the Lord, and to the inhabitants thereof, and even make this city as Tophet:
13 And the houses of Jerusalem, and the houses of the kings of Judah, shall be defiled as the place of Tophet, because of all the houses upon whose roofs they have burned incense unto all the host of heaven, and have poured out drink offerings unto other gods.
14 Then came Jeremiah from Tophet, whither the Lord had sent him to prophesy; and he stood in the court of the Lord's house; and said to all the people,
15 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, because they have hardened their necks, that they might not hear my words.

Jerusalem + Judah (the Jews) is a clay jar that has been smashed into millions of pieces (AD 70) and it cannot be reconstructed, nor can its people.

And this is so. The genealogical records of the Jews perished in AD 70 with the temple, so nobody today can show they are a bloodline Jew. Such a thing no longer exists. Only followers of the various strands of Pharisaism exist.

Interesting post. You are right about the strands of Pharisaism. Judaism comes directly from the teachings of the Pharisees. Modern Judaism relies not on the Bible but on the Talmud which consists of written traditions. It is claimed to be grounded on the oral teachings that Moses received along with the five books and is considered equally inspired. It has been added to over the centuries.

Jer19:7 about the fouls given the carcasses ties in with what Jesus says to the Disciples in Luke 17:37 and the reference in Rev 19:17-18

Spurgeoncy · Jan 20, 2017

Ok, I'll spell it out for them (and us).

What the dual covenant judaizers are trying to do is apply Leviticus 26 to the last two thousand years.

So what they are then saying is that the Jews who have been in exile for 1875 years, (leaving Judah in 73AD and returning in 1948), have been regathered as per God's application of the Abrahamic Covenant in Leviticus 26.

Confused?

If like me you thought that Leviticus 26 talked about the Babylonian exile, then you would be confused also.

The Babylonian Exile was 70 years, each year representing a Sabbath year missed by Israel. The Law mandated that the land was left fallow every 7th year, which the Israelites disobeyed. So, after 490 years, 70 years of missed sabbaths had accrued, which the Jews were required to repay for Israel by going into Babylonian exile.

Now, the logic of those like EG, DC, BR, KG, and their fellow judaizers, is that the present return of the Jews to the state of Israel, is evidence of God applying the Mosaic Law rules of Leviticus 26 to the Jews.

Sounds crackers uh? It is.

1875 years of exile, each year denoting a missed sabbath, would equate to a total of 13,125 years of Israelite infraction.

This is totally absurd, and debunks their judaizing nonsense.

KJV1611 · Jan 20, 2017

kaylagrl said:

Actually EG didn't answer the question, he said:

My question is what does "I will break this people and this city as one breaketh a potter's vessel that cannot be made whole again" mean. Can Jerusalem and Israel be made whole again or no?

Jeremiah 19:11 KJV
And shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Even so will I break this people and this city, as one breaketh a potter's vessel, that cannot be made whole again: and they shall bury them in Tophet, till there be no place to bury.

KJV1611 · Jan 20, 2017

prove-all said:

I don't understand Jeremiah 33:24.... Who are the two families God chose and who spoke the words "he hath even cast them off"?

Zechariah I do understand, this is God bringing them back to the land just prior to the first coming of Christ.

kaylagrl · Jan 20, 2017

Spurgeoncy said:

Quote "and their fellow judaizers"

Ahhhh she cant stop the name calling. Just not mature enough to discuss and agree to disagree. A judaizer would insist on keeping the festivals, living the Jewish customs,believing the law will save.Nice try though.Its sounds all official. Im real glad we're past the burning at the stake era,I have a feeling you'd be front and center tossing the lighted torch at my feet. smh.

kaylagrl · Jan 20, 2017

KJV1611 said:

Yes,Gods anger was kindled but by the end of the book God said,

This is what the Lord says:

“Only if the heavens above can be measured
and the foundations of the earth below be searched out
will I reject all the descendants of Israel
because of all they have done,”
declares the Lord.

Thats your answer. God wasn't done.

“For a brief moment I abandoned you,
but with deep compassion I will bring you back.
In a surge of anger
I hid my face from you for a moment,
but with everlasting kindness
I will have compassion on you,”says the Lord your Redeemer.

Clear as can be....

Spurgeoncy · Jan 20, 2017

You are Judaizers, so what should I call you guys?

Come on get real, ditch the passive aggressive crap.

.

kaylagrl said:

Spurgeoncy · Jan 20, 2017

You are just full of deception KG.

When anyone says anything remotely anti-Judaism, you go bananas and bring out the "anti-Semitic" canard, now when I say you are pro-judaism, i.e. a Judaizer, you go bananas and claim it is a witch hunt.

Which way is it to be?

Adstar · Jan 20, 2017

KJV1611 said:

Your acceptance of the Book of revealtion as symbolisim is where you have made your mistake.. And yes i agree our discussion is pointless if you cannot understand that the Book of revelation is not all about symbolic interpretation... The reason why the symbolic interpretation of Revelation was entered into was because the catholic religion needed to symbolize it to force all the fulfillment before they came to power with constantine in the Roman empire.. They needed to be seen as the saints who where ruling the world for 1000 years with Christ... Of course the catholic church is a false religion and not of Christ and has decieved many.. And continues to have millions decieved..

KJV1611 · Jan 20, 2017

Adstar said:

Your acceptance of the Book of revealtion as symbolisim is where you have made your mistake.. And yes i agree our discussion is pointless if you cannot understand that the Book of revelation is not all about symbolic interpretation... The reason why the symbolic interpretation of Revelation was entered into was because the catholic religion needed to symbolize it to force all the fulfillment before they came to power with constantine in the Roman empire.. They needed to be seen as the saints who where ruling the world for 1000 years with Christ... Of course the catholic church is a false religion and not of Christ and has decieved many.. And continues to have millions decieved..

At the beginning of the book it tells us that an angel rendered the Revelation into signs - symbolic language... we can agree to disagree.

KJV1611 · Jan 20, 2017

kaylagrl said:

I agree it's clear if you're saying the first passage was fulfilled in Christ and the second one is talking about the first coming of Christ... otherwise those verses contradict Jeremiah 19:11 which we know can't be the case... the bible never ever contradicts itself.

dcontroversal · Jan 20, 2017

Adstar said:

I doubt there where 144,000 jewish innocents in the entire nation of israel during the time of Jesus. let alone around bethlahem during the time of the massacre.. But today in Israel or within the wider Jewish dispora there would be 144,000 innocents..

The scriptures state about the 144,000 that their forheads will be placed a seal to identify them and thus give them protection from the wrath being poured out in the end times .. The dead little ones would not need to be protected because they are not on the earth but with the LORD..

Revelation 7 KJV
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
[SUP]3[/SUP]Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Nice....NOW pay attention

The ANGEL ASCENDS (same word applied to JESUS in ACTS) while speaking to the ANGEL that IS COMING DOWN to do what he is going to do to the EARTH

and

THIS IS NOT the SAME type of SEALING that is done by the HOLY SPIRIT when one is saved.......

KJV1611 · Jan 20, 2017

dcontroversal said:

What other kind of forehead sealing is there?

Bladerunner · Jan 20, 2017

Spurgeoncy said:

because that is what you are preaching my friend. God turns away from Israel in 70AD......is it not.....

Then be man /women enough to own it. Please!!!!!!!!!!

dcontroversal · Jan 20, 2017

KJV1611 said:

The angel ASCENDING to seal is not the HOLY SPIRIT....so....one can rightfully surmise that they are not comparable

Spurgeoncy · Jan 20, 2017

Bladerunner said:

No. This is your hobby horse. I do not preach that.

Spurgeoncy · Jan 20, 2017

The only replacement theologies I am familiar are the ones peddled by the Judaizers.

1) That the followers of Judaism have replaced DNA Jews
2) That DNA Jews (so-called) have replaced DNA Israelites
3) That DNA Israelites (so-called) have replaced spiritual Israel.

In short, the Replacement theology that a bunch of people of uncertain origin following the Pharisaic teachings of Judaism, including the Babylonian inspired Talmud, have replaced the Church.

4) Having effected this grand scam, you then replace the perpetrators of the scam, Judaistic Teachers, with the victims of the scam, The Church, and accuse it of the thing you are threefold culpable of.

= "The Fourfold Replacement Theology Scam"

dcontroversal · Jan 20, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Will add.....this particular incident is a unique application found in the bible....the word is clear...it is the Holy Spirit that seals a believer upon salvation....this is an angel ASCENDING from the earth and while ascending from the earth to seal the 144,000 he speaks to the angel descending to the earth concerning his mission to hurt the earth.....

God does not mince words nor does he do something out of the ordinary unless there is a unique circumstance taking place!

eternally-gratefull · Jan 20, 2017

KJV1611 said:

This will be my last time responding to this person. In fact I recommend everyone put him on ignore.

This is the umpteenth time now he has proven he has NO DESIRE to discuss ANYTHING but his view.

As you can see, It did not matter what the rest of Lev 26 said, he only wanted to look at one small section out of a prety big chapter.

As you can also see, He already made up his mind, SO there is NOTHING I or anyone else can say to him.

So no use even trying.

zone · Jan 20, 2017

Spurgeoncy said:

The only replacement theologies I am familiar are the ones peddled by the Judaizers.

1) That the followers of Judaism have replaced DNA Jews
2) That DNA Jews (so-called) have replaced DNA Israelites
3) That DNA Israelites (so-called) have replaced spiritual Israel.

In short, the Replacement theology that a bunch of people of uncertain origin following the Pharisaic teachings of Judaism, including the Babylonian inspired Talmud, have replaced the Church.

4) Having effected this grand scam, you then replace the perpetrators of the scam, Judaistic Teachers, with the victims of the scam, The Church, and accuse it of the thing you are threefold culpable of.

= "The Fourfold Replacement Theology Scam"

The Old Covenant

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

kaylagrl

Guest

kaylagrl

Guest

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

eternally-gratefull

Guest

Senior Member