*****5 Wise Virgins---------------------------------*****5 Foolish Virgins

[valiant]

Not necessarily. In both Matthew 7:21-23 & Luke 13:24-30, Jesus denied them because they were workers of iniquity, even though they had professed Him and did works in His name.

I NEVER knew you is pretty clear.

More scripture confirms this;

Titus 1:[SUP]15 [/SUP]Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.[SUP]16 [/SUP]They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate

.

so they are defiled and unbelieving. They PROFESS to know God but do NOT. Its quite clear.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]12 [/SUP]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:[SUP]13 [/SUP]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

So it is possible for a saved believer to deny Him and wind up being denied by Him,

where does it say they are saved believers?

and yet even though they believe not any more in Him, He still abides in them although they have been left behind from the Marriage Supper.

they NEVER believed on Him. They denied Him.

This is what differentiates the vessels unto dishonor from the vessels unto honor; as the vessels unto dishonor are those that DID NOT DEPART from iniquity wherein is the reason why Jesus would deny them attendance to the supper.

what differentiates them is that they did not really believe.

2 Timothy 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.[SUP]19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

The LORD knows those who are His. Its simple really. They are those whom He has saved,,

[SUP]20 [/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.[SUP]21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Yes they are those who are His.

So saved believers

They are not those whom GOD has saved. He guarantees that thy will be kept.

can be left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event as they become vessels unto dishonor in His House for not trusting Him as their Good Shepherd to help them discern good & evil by the King James Bible so as to expose the works of iniquity by Him to see the need for His help to depart from that iniquity.

well quite apart from your error about a pretribulational rapture these were not ever believers who had been saved by God.


Those saved by God are saved for eternity.

 

[stonesoffire]

We know these scriptures are to the body of Christ.

1Jn 3:2 Dear friends, we are now God's children, but what we will be like has not been revealed yet. We know that when the Messiah is revealed, we will be like him, because we will see him as he is.

1Jn 3:3 And everyone who has this hope based on him keeps himself pure, just as the Messiah is pure.

 

[88]

Yes

I did quite a bit of research on this due to the odd interpretations and the concensus is that it is about being prepared. and NOT about salvation
Seriously, Jesus says that Himself at the end of the parable so I don't know how it can be otherwise interpreted?

The context, is a preparation by way of a typical Jewish wedding (at the time). They occured at night apparently, and everyone had lamps with oil IN them. The text clearly states that all 10 had oil in their lamps and only 5 brought EXTRA oil

As you say, deception is the miserable disease of this current church age

There is just no other way to put it with some, no doubt, finding it offensive to actually say so

***that is the goal of posting Biblical threads---if we truly study the Word and dig in and find the truth it will change our lives---so many people are bound by tradition and things they think are right that it actually keeps them from the truth...

 

[mailmandan]

**** the foolish did have oil at one time---- vs. 8 NIV---- their lamps were going out implying they had oil but not enough---- the focus of the parable is being prepared not salvation...

I already covered this in posts #105, #128, #131 and #132.

 

[PeterJens]

I already covered this in posts #105, #128, #131 and #132.

I see if Christ rejects the 5 foolish virgins they could not have known Jesus
in terms of salvation because they were rejected.

But does this not make the point it is not a binary relationship but more
sophisticated. How are we defined, as a whole over our whole lives
going back from judgement, or as a one off experience that may or may not
have happened, depending on how we end up. Sounds a bit flaky to me.

 

[samuel23]

Matt 25:1-12 has some similarities to Luke 13:24-27. In Matt 25:10-12 the door was SHUT and when they tried to get in, the Lord said to them," I know you not". In Luke 13:25 when once the master is risen up and has SHUT to the door, when they try to get in the Lord says, I know you not. In both of these parables the persons who were not allowed in,had had a serious connection to the Lord, the foolish virgins were engaged to him, and the other folks ate and drink in his presence. Yet both groups were not allowed in AFTER a certain point(door is shut), and they were declared to be unknown to the Lord(even though they all had a personal connection to the Lord). The impression is that the five virgins and the folks who ate and drink with the Lord COULD have been allowed in, however they let their opportunity pass and after that they were not allowed in. Both of these parables seem to be saying...do not let your opportunity to really be in Christ pass.

 

[popeye]

Israel is looking for Messiah to come.

Under the first covenant.

The NT was written to the church

 

[popeye]

Hi popeye,

Not so, the virgins were described in the bible as wise and foolish. It’s not me either who disallowed the 5 foolish virgins to the marriage chamber, the scriptures of truth says, the 5 foolish called but were not heard and even the door was shut for them. Though, they have lamps yet they have no oil in their vessels. And because these were so foolish, the bridegroom did not even know them. If all were saved then they have been known by the bridegroom. The bridegroom may represent God or our Lord Jesus and we know it that God knows His own. Yet, in the dispensational approach, the 10 virgins are in reference to the nation of Israel as someone says here, possibly in the coming future tribulation. But the parable may somehow be applied to us Gentile relating to our preparation in regards to salvation. The vessel may also represent the heart, either one has the heart of unbelief (foolish virgins) or heart establish with grace (wise virgins). All may have prepared well according to his own yet only the wise virgins (saved) prepared well to the coming of the bridegroom. So, the kingdom seekers each prepared, the wise (saved) in the Bible way, the foolish also prepared in a wrong way, not knowing their preparation lacks one thing, they have no oil.

Do both the wise and foolish virgins have oil in their lamp?


The Bible answer is NO. Both have none!


What the Bible says the wise took oil with their vessels with their lamp. The foolish, had their lamp only or no oil in their vessel. This is because while the 10 were ‘setting order’ their lamps that the foolish have to ask the wise virgins to give oil for them to light up their lamps since it was then in the midnight. The Bible says their lamps are gone out.

God bless

Re read it. It says that their lamps had gone out.

How in the world were they ONCE LIT ???
MAGICALLY????

You basically wasted all those sentances

 

[popeye]

I already covered this in posts #105, #128, #131 and #132.

....and changed the components of the parable

 

[popeye]

I NEVER knew you is pretty clear.


.

so they are defiled and unbelieving. They PROFESS to know God but do NOT. Its quite clear.



where does it say they are saved believers?



they NEVER believed on Him. They denied Him.



what differentiates them is that they did not really believe.



The LORD knows those who are His. Its simple really. They are those whom He has saved,,



Yes they are those who are His.



They are not those whom GOD has saved. He guarantees that thy will be kept.





well quite apart from your error about a pretribulational rapture these were not ever believers who had been saved by God.


Those saved by God are saved for eternity.

You added"never"

I wonder why

 

[fredoheaven]

Re read it. It says that their lamps had gone out.

How in the world were they ONCE LIT ???
MAGICALLY????

You basically wasted all those sentances

Hehehe! that's how foolish they were...

 

[88]

I see if Christ rejects the 5 foolish virgins they could not have known Jesus
in terms of salvation because they were rejected.

But does this not make the point it is not a binary relationship but more
sophisticated. How are we defined, as a whole over our whole lives
going back from judgement, or as a one off experience that may or may not
have happened, depending on how we end up. Sounds a bit flaky to me.

****this is a parable about being prepared----we are not just going to wake up and be unprepared----both are a process not a one off experience----we are presently getting ready or we are presently drifting from the Lord---there are many warnings given in God's Word not to neglect our salvation---we should not play around with our salvation---I would not chance anything negative happening in regard to getting prepared---does that mean a person is perfect---no---but the Word says perfect (mature) as your Heavenly Father is perfect (Matthew 5:48)...

 

[fredoheaven]

Re read it. It says that their lamps had gone out.

QUOTE]

1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
14

Hi Popeye,

The bible says their “lamps are gone out” not their “lamps had gone out”. A difference is to be made here. In the first, they totally have no oil in the lamp and that is what the Bible says, whereas saying they the (5) foolish ‘had gone out’ implies, they have had once but the scenario is different.

1. The foolish virgins took only lamps (nothing said about oil in the lamps).
2. The foolish virgins took no oil in their vessels; the wise on the other hand took oil in their vessels.
3. The foolish ones together with the wise prepared their lamps. The Bible says they trimmed their lamps meaning as they set order their lamps, wanted to put oil in the lamp but the problem is, the foolish have no oil with them and ask the wise to give them oil.

I don’t find difficulty with what the bible says, I really don’t know yours why say the foolish lamps ’had gone out’.

God bless

 

[mailmandan]

I see if Christ rejects the 5 foolish virgins they could not have known Jesus
in terms of salvation because they were rejected.

That is exactly right.

 

[mailmandan]

....and changed the components of the parable

Says you. I'm really not interested in your false accusations or your biased interpretation of the parable.

 

[PeterJens]

Says you. I'm really not interested in your false accusations or your biased interpretation of the parable.

To be honest the parable is telling a simple story with various obvious facts.
The women failed to bring enough oil, and had to go buy some more.

It was only a wedding, many of these happen, a small mistake, who cares.

Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
Matt 25:13

Be prepared for all eventualities.

 

[popeye]

Yes,it is not a "salvation" saved from lof parable.

It is a wedding parable.

Gentile bride.

 

[popeye]

..and obviously not a "Baptist" parable.

The game changer is oil,Not "virgin"

"know" is not one dimensional.

Those stumbling over it,need bizarre transposing of the parable's components to make up for the misplaced "know" interpretation.

Mary KNEW not a man,when she became pregnant.

Under you guys strict enforcement,she lived in a vacuum,unable to see or talk to her dad,or any other man.

 

[Sturuj]

why would Jesus say 10 virgins? why not 20 virgins or 30 virgins? why 5 wise virgins and 5 foolish ones? why not 10 wise virgins and 10 foolish or 15 wise virgins and 15 foolish virgins?

the number 10 could speak of the period of testing:
Jesus told His disciples to wait 10 days for the Holy Spirit to come (pentecost 50 days minus Jesus being on earth for 40 days before ascending to heaven).
daniel ask to test them about their diet for 10 days.
Jesus told the church of smyrna that they will suffer persecution for 10 days. He said, be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.
in times of testing, would you still pursue the Lord like the 5 wise virgins? or would you be just like the world at certain time and only get on your feet (went to buy the oil) when He's already on your door steps (the bridegroom came)?
be ready

number 5 speaks of grace of God
after noahs name were mention the 5th time, he found grace/favour in the eyes of the Lord.
Genesis 7:16
And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him (Noah)(grace) in. there will come a time that this age of grace will come to a close. verse 10 says grace was inside and the door was shut. history only repeats itself.
be ready its a warning.

the lamp is a symbol for the Word as the bible says thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. the oil is the symbol for the Holy Spirit because everytime an oil is anointed on someone in the bible, the Spirit of the Lord came powerfully on that person.

at that time the kingdom of heaven will be like...
generally, Jesus is speaking about this present age called the church age - virgins (church) - not the building but the body of Christ. why virgins? to show the purity of the body of Christ (church) after of what He did for us on the cross. in reality, the church is composed up of wise virgins and foolish virgins.

have you wonder why no heathen, etc were mentioned? its because we are to pursue first our inheritance (banquet) before the second coming of Jesus. there was still things in His timeline yet to be fulfilled like the so called great awakening, great harvest and the Joel 2:28 to which points out to all flesh - all means all. verse 5 says that while the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.. woah! even the wise virgins were asleep! but there was a kind of sleeping that is "resting" & waiting patiently in Him and sleep like a "spiritual stupor". have we overcome the world or is it the world overcome us? are we spending time with God? praying? having the Word? you dont know you were asleep until you wake up! its a wake up call for us to be watchful and be prepared.

verse 6 and at midnight there was a cry made, behold, the bridegroom comes; go out to meet him. who are these people whos crying? whos giving the warning? how awesome it is that there are people who are called to be the sovereign vessel of God. as the prophet Amos said, the Lord made known his plans, surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, unless he reveals his secret unto his servants. and the church has awakened from that cry! do you want to get involved like the wise virgins or just be left out like the foolish ones?

the point that Jesus is making here is be ready.

Luke 12:35
“Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, like servants waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him.

 

[popeye]

Says you. I'm really not interested in your false accusations or your biased interpretation of the parable.

Funny how you need what,about 5 items hacked to pieces to make it a salvation dynamic as opposed to the truth of the story