forgiveness according to the truth
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john 17:13-19 "And now come I to thee; and THESE THINGS I SPEAK IN THE WORLD, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14I HAVE GIVEN THEM THY WORD; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17Sanctify them through THY TRUTH: THY WORD IS TRUTH. 18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through THE TRUTH."
john 15:3 "Now ye are clean through the WORD which I HAVE SPOKEN unto you."
we arent sanctified by anything other than accepting the Gospel, meaning the Word, the teachings of Jesus, the things He said to His disciples. The things Jesus spoke before His death are Life to those who receive them and persevere keeping them in the Heart and believing them unto righteousness. there is no other way to the Father but through Jesus and the Word. gotta believe the right things whther we feel like it or not. right belief will produce children of God, wrong belief will destroy through omitting The Word of God.
but im not interested in arguing and that to me sems to be your purpose.
all i have to say, is Believe Jesus Christ as He presented His word in the gospels, and you can never go astray. faith comes through Hearing the Word that came through Jesus. then the epistles make perfect sense and exhort to the obedience of faith. and we then dont find ourselves omitting the things paul makes plain about obedience and repentance. it is all a part of One message. Grace and obedience to Jesus go hand in hand
john 15:3 "Now ye are clean through the WORD which I HAVE SPOKEN unto you."
we arent sanctified by anything other than accepting the Gospel, meaning the Word, the teachings of Jesus, the things He said to His disciples. The things Jesus spoke before His death are Life to those who receive them and persevere keeping them in the Heart and believing them unto righteousness. there is no other way to the Father but through Jesus and the Word. gotta believe the right things whther we feel like it or not. right belief will produce children of God, wrong belief will destroy through omitting The Word of God.
but im not interested in arguing and that to me sems to be your purpose.
all i have to say, is Believe Jesus Christ as He presented His word in the gospels, and you can never go astray. faith comes through Hearing the Word that came through Jesus. then the epistles make perfect sense and exhort to the obedience of faith. and we then dont find ourselves omitting the things paul makes plain about obedience and repentance. it is all a part of One message. Grace and obedience to Jesus go hand in hand
A heretic is a heretic. No problem calling people out on this.
Hurt - we are all hurt people in need of healing. Jesus calls us to find healing in Him.
Blasphemy - which blasphemy was I calling out - speaking to the dead, claiming we
are little gods, ability to speak our futures into existance?
Whatever it was, it has upset you. I am sorry you are upset. How can I pray for
you so you can get healing?
Now how is this relevant to finding love in Christ and the cross and resting on His
forgiveness?
Hurt - we are all hurt people in need of healing. Jesus calls us to find healing in Him.
Blasphemy - which blasphemy was I calling out - speaking to the dead, claiming we
are little gods, ability to speak our futures into existance?
Whatever it was, it has upset you. I am sorry you are upset. How can I pray for
you so you can get healing?
Now how is this relevant to finding love in Christ and the cross and resting on His
forgiveness?
exactly peter, pointing out a false teaching, is important. and anything that contradicts the gospel is absolutely false. if someone is teaching that Jesus words are not meant to believe and follow as the Lords word. we then know assuredly that it is not true and wil indeed lead someone astray. when we need a special Lens that omits the lords word, we are way off track. Grace can easily be sistorted into something it is not. many scriptures tell us this, and those also should be believed.
what contradiction is that? Listen to what im saying. if any doctrine, idea, lens or any other theology, is not what Jesus taught it isnt correct. if any idea is teaching people that what He said doesnt fully apply to a christian, it is was off track. were warned clearly of this through the new testament, by paul, peter, John. Jesus Himself. if we believe that the word grace changes anything Jesus said, or makes it nullified, alters it, it has no merit.
He is the Lord over Heaven and earth the only one who was annointed to save mankind. i do not deny anything paul or john or anyone else wrote because they were all full of what Jesus had taught them. Those 4 gospels are the doctrine of God sent not to condemn but to transform sinners into children of God. we have to 100 percent accept the sacrifice God sent for us, we also have to accept His words because He is the one that God sent to us to believe and trust and follow. thats all im saying we do not accept the cross and then omit His word. we are obligated to Him yoked to Jesus.
often we dont perceive what someone else is saying because of our own beliefs, i also have done that during these "debates" we need truly to hear anything that regards Jesus and never oppose His word. He who suffered so much, also spoke Life to His disciples. and when a doctrine is different from His principles it is not true. He is the truth He spoke the truth and also is full of Grace and abounding in Love for us. He is always there to forgive us, but everything we must believe is Jesus His life, ministry, His death and resurrection, also His ascention to the right Hand of God.
Im not at all judging you or anyone else in any way salvation is equal to all of us it is between the believer and the Lord. I just know without fail that His word is as essential as the cross, they are eternally linked because its about the One God sent to teach us the way of the children of God, and also to suffer and die on our behalf. were forgiven by Jesus because God gave Him that authority. the word doesnt omit the cross and the cross doesnt omit the Word. even Moses isnt omitted, Jesus fulfilled that stuff because it was condemnation for sinners, and weve all been sinners in our life. Jesus though His words are the opposite they are imparting what saves and changes our hearts and brings us into the obedience of Faith. it is all at every point Jesus, what we believe, what we trust.
im not at all disoputing that were saved by Grace, im saying faith is a requirement in order to please God. And Faith comes through accepting His word.
hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. "
romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
all we have to do is Believe Jesus in His earthly ministry, Hearoing those things creates diligence, corrects the issue in us that causes sinful actions. and all of it comes from God His word is a gift as well as the atonement. We know truth because we believe in the truth. obedience comes into us through Hearing and believing the Word, Grace brought peace with God by Jesus bearing our sins which had seperated us from God beforehand. But if we do not submit ourselves to the words of God spoken By Jesus, there is nothing to bring righteousness. saying God Loves us is true, but that doesnt mean that we are free from obeying the Lord. we are made right so that we can live right through Faith. we dont walk by grace, we walk by faith.
He is the Lord over Heaven and earth the only one who was annointed to save mankind. i do not deny anything paul or john or anyone else wrote because they were all full of what Jesus had taught them. Those 4 gospels are the doctrine of God sent not to condemn but to transform sinners into children of God. we have to 100 percent accept the sacrifice God sent for us, we also have to accept His words because He is the one that God sent to us to believe and trust and follow. thats all im saying we do not accept the cross and then omit His word. we are obligated to Him yoked to Jesus.
often we dont perceive what someone else is saying because of our own beliefs, i also have done that during these "debates" we need truly to hear anything that regards Jesus and never oppose His word. He who suffered so much, also spoke Life to His disciples. and when a doctrine is different from His principles it is not true. He is the truth He spoke the truth and also is full of Grace and abounding in Love for us. He is always there to forgive us, but everything we must believe is Jesus His life, ministry, His death and resurrection, also His ascention to the right Hand of God.
Im not at all judging you or anyone else in any way salvation is equal to all of us it is between the believer and the Lord. I just know without fail that His word is as essential as the cross, they are eternally linked because its about the One God sent to teach us the way of the children of God, and also to suffer and die on our behalf. were forgiven by Jesus because God gave Him that authority. the word doesnt omit the cross and the cross doesnt omit the Word. even Moses isnt omitted, Jesus fulfilled that stuff because it was condemnation for sinners, and weve all been sinners in our life. Jesus though His words are the opposite they are imparting what saves and changes our hearts and brings us into the obedience of Faith. it is all at every point Jesus, what we believe, what we trust.
im not at all disoputing that were saved by Grace, im saying faith is a requirement in order to please God. And Faith comes through accepting His word.
hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. "
romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
all we have to do is Believe Jesus in His earthly ministry, Hearoing those things creates diligence, corrects the issue in us that causes sinful actions. and all of it comes from God His word is a gift as well as the atonement. We know truth because we believe in the truth. obedience comes into us through Hearing and believing the Word, Grace brought peace with God by Jesus bearing our sins which had seperated us from God beforehand. But if we do not submit ourselves to the words of God spoken By Jesus, there is nothing to bring righteousness. saying God Loves us is true, but that doesnt mean that we are free from obeying the Lord. we are made right so that we can live right through Faith. we dont walk by grace, we walk by faith.
no, i said anything that disagrees with the doctrine that jesus taught while he was on earth, that is the One promised of God all through the prophets, the one sent with the Words of God. and no again, i believe Jesus is Gods Son, and that is the confession and belief we are told to have in the Bible. i have never once said he is not God thats how you and some others roll though, you add and twist and accuse.
and ok since its mute point then lets call this discussion over. im good with that
No matter How many times you guys ask me My Faith will always be that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. apparently things like this dont sink in
1 John 5:1-8 " Whosoever believeth that JESUS IS THE CHRIST is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD? "
thats really not unclear or shouldnt be about what to believe about Jesus.
anyone who belives that Jesus is the christ and Son of God <<<< pretty basic faith we have
1 john 5:9-12 "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified OF HIS SON. 10He that believeth on the SON OF GOD hath the WITNESS in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave OF HIS SON. 11And THIS IS THE RECORD, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is IN HIS SON. 12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."
What is the witness in us? v8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, THE SPIRIT, and the water, and the blood: and these three AGREE IN ONE.
Jesus born of water and blood, the spirit testifies of Gods Son. really basic stuff Christians believe in the One and only Son of God Jesus Christ. but this argument repeats itself. my faith will always be in Jesus the Christ and Son of the Living God. <<<never to be moved.
and ok since its mute point then lets call this discussion over. im good with that
No matter How many times you guys ask me My Faith will always be that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. apparently things like this dont sink in
1 John 5:1-8 " Whosoever believeth that JESUS IS THE CHRIST is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD? "
thats really not unclear or shouldnt be about what to believe about Jesus.
anyone who belives that Jesus is the christ and Son of God <<<< pretty basic faith we have
1 john 5:9-12 "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified OF HIS SON. 10He that believeth on the SON OF GOD hath the WITNESS in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave OF HIS SON. 11And THIS IS THE RECORD, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is IN HIS SON. 12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."
What is the witness in us? v8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, THE SPIRIT, and the water, and the blood: and these three AGREE IN ONE.
Jesus born of water and blood, the spirit testifies of Gods Son. really basic stuff Christians believe in the One and only Son of God Jesus Christ. but this argument repeats itself. my faith will always be in Jesus the Christ and Son of the Living God. <<<never to be moved.
I suppose the sensitivity in a belief way is Jesus was begotten not created.
If Jesus is created He is no longer God and that has some other implications
which cause conceptual problems later on.
I have met some groups who appear very christian, except for a lot of added
on theology which actually means daily and in practice they interact with God
in a non-biblical way. As you know dealing with the groups we deal with here
it is possible to have apparently the same language but mean different things
by it to a degree both parties identify each other in very different emotional
groups and experiences.
My view is our relationship with Christ and in love, dealing with sin and walking
to serve, irons out the perspectives fairly quickly, so I am keener on people learning
to walk with Christ and listen to Him, than work out the theory around it.
I myself wonder at how Christ in bodily form existed before he was Jesus the human,
but this is probably our perception of existance rather than a constraint.
How we experience our saviour and His work, which is our immediate walk, is our focus
rather than standing back as if our understanding can jump these gaps.
God bless you brother and your walk, Peter
If Jesus is created He is no longer God and that has some other implications
which cause conceptual problems later on.
I have met some groups who appear very christian, except for a lot of added
on theology which actually means daily and in practice they interact with God
in a non-biblical way. As you know dealing with the groups we deal with here
it is possible to have apparently the same language but mean different things
by it to a degree both parties identify each other in very different emotional
groups and experiences.
My view is our relationship with Christ and in love, dealing with sin and walking
to serve, irons out the perspectives fairly quickly, so I am keener on people learning
to walk with Christ and listen to Him, than work out the theory around it.
I myself wonder at how Christ in bodily form existed before he was Jesus the human,
but this is probably our perception of existance rather than a constraint.
How we experience our saviour and His work, which is our immediate walk, is our focus
rather than standing back as if our understanding can jump these gaps.
God bless you brother and your walk, Peter
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The truth is - Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh. Jesus is the Son of God and the Son of Man in the flesh when He came but He is still God - one of the Trinity. He is the true word of God.
The truth of there being 3 Beings in One and yet distinct is hard for our finite brains to comprehend.
To deny that Jesus Christ is not God is in fact heresy. It is like saying that our Father is not God. The Holy Spirit is not God. Scriptures are clear that Jesus Christ is God.
The truth of there being 3 Beings in One and yet distinct is hard for our finite brains to comprehend.
To deny that Jesus Christ is not God is in fact heresy. It is like saying that our Father is not God. The Holy Spirit is not God. Scriptures are clear that Jesus Christ is God.
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E
I agree 100%
and I agree 100% That is whay I was asking about the contradictions which are caused in scripture. That is how I determne what is right and wrong, Not what people say, Does it contradict.
ie, the bible says one thing here as I see it, yet over there it says the opposite..Then I must rething, because one of my interpretations is wrong, I must resolve the contradiction.
Yes, A and there are some who even inspite of being told they are not listening and understanding, insist they are right, and then will come out with harsh words and name calling.. Blame shifting, That does not help at all.
and again I agree 100%
Yes, We obey what we believe, what we trust. and that is what we follow.. and it should all be based on the word "the word has made you clean, My words are spirit and they are life" To quote Jesus himself.
and I would agre wiht you 100%,, apart from faith their is no salvation, although I believe we can act saved. or act Godly..
and Again, I agree with everything you said here. from what you wrote here, we appear to be on the same page (it happens with peter alot too) so what is the issue? Why do we disagree on the gospel?
However, it still does not respolve the contradictions..lol
and I agree 100% That is whay I was asking about the contradictions which are caused in scripture. That is how I determne what is right and wrong, Not what people say, Does it contradict.
ie, the bible says one thing here as I see it, yet over there it says the opposite..Then I must rething, because one of my interpretations is wrong, I must resolve the contradiction.
Yes, A and there are some who even inspite of being told they are not listening and understanding, insist they are right, and then will come out with harsh words and name calling.. Blame shifting, That does not help at all.
and again I agree 100%
Yes, We obey what we believe, what we trust. and that is what we follow.. and it should all be based on the word "the word has made you clean, My words are spirit and they are life" To quote Jesus himself.
and I would agre wiht you 100%,, apart from faith their is no salvation, although I believe we can act saved. or act Godly..
and Again, I agree with everything you said here. from what you wrote here, we appear to be on the same page (it happens with peter alot too) so what is the issue? Why do we disagree on the gospel?
However, it still does not respolve the contradictions..lol
Some thoughts on recent posts. In the Old testament the Lord, and Lord in Hebrew was always Yahweh, would declare such things as I am your husband, I am your King, and I am your Savior." Reading Isaiah 9:6 we learn from this prophet the words from God saying that the Chid to be born to us would be known, among other titles , as Almighty God, Everlasting Father, Ruler of Peace, Counselor, Comforter.........
It is probable that while Jesus walked in this age, He was like us all in most ways except I believe He always knew well just who He was. I believe He did this because of perfect humility and love so whe He overcame all the temptations of the enemy no man, no flesh, could ever accuse Him of not having the authority to judge all flesh. Another erason I believe this is because after His glorious defeat of the curse of the law on the cross, the Fahter raised Him, then after forty days, He was glorified....
Jesus Christ is God, and He is the Alpha and the Omega...... If any wish to explain the Trinity, go ahead, but this mystery is always going to be so until His Day for us all, when all will be revealed.
I feel justified and certain when I say Jesus Christ is God........
It is probable that while Jesus walked in this age, He was like us all in most ways except I believe He always knew well just who He was. I believe He did this because of perfect humility and love so whe He overcame all the temptations of the enemy no man, no flesh, could ever accuse Him of not having the authority to judge all flesh. Another erason I believe this is because after His glorious defeat of the curse of the law on the cross, the Fahter raised Him, then after forty days, He was glorified....
Jesus Christ is God, and He is the Alpha and the Omega...... If any wish to explain the Trinity, go ahead, but this mystery is always going to be so until His Day for us all, when all will be revealed.
I feel justified and certain when I say Jesus Christ is God........
Trinity is a word describing God. God is one; Jesus christ says so. He and the Father are One: Jesus Says so. The Holy Spirit is Truth and this would be the Words of Jesus and His words are life and spirit.
Why look for an argumetn in a mysstery that has yet to be truly explained to the children of God in this age? For me, Trinity, when used as a reference to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is just one more title of god. He has many, but as for His having revealed His intimate nature to all completely, again, His Day is yet to come when He reveals all mysteries.
I am overjoyed to know Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit is god, and the Father is God. Isaiah passed on this to me from God, and I believe what God gave to Isaiah. Men have taken to calling Him the trinity, and this is fine with me for it is not in stone, just one of a myriad of valid titles for the Lord of HOsts, God Almighty, God the Provider, Love, the Son.and so many more.
In Hebrew the word for god as we use it is off times Elohim, plural, as when He ñ created man from the dust, He said, come let us make man in our image..........I believe Him..Explain Him, no, this is for those far more informed than I.
Why look for an argumetn in a mysstery that has yet to be truly explained to the children of God in this age? For me, Trinity, when used as a reference to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is just one more title of god. He has many, but as for His having revealed His intimate nature to all completely, again, His Day is yet to come when He reveals all mysteries.
I am overjoyed to know Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit is god, and the Father is God. Isaiah passed on this to me from God, and I believe what God gave to Isaiah. Men have taken to calling Him the trinity, and this is fine with me for it is not in stone, just one of a myriad of valid titles for the Lord of HOsts, God Almighty, God the Provider, Love, the Son.and so many more.
In Hebrew the word for god as we use it is off times Elohim, plural, as when He ñ created man from the dust, He said, come let us make man in our image..........I believe Him..Explain Him, no, this is for those far more informed than I.