HELL

[StanJ]

There is no rant on my part. Worried about personal attacks on this forum? Not at all. Report to the Admin of how some Christians here do such a wonderful job of walking in the Sinful nature of the Flesh, just as the World does? What for?
For Jesus said! You fight and quarrel among yourselves because you seek, and have not.

Thank you very much for claiming that I am self righteous For I am not. I speak of a few things that Jesus spoke about.
You attack me for this. This I am thankful for. For this is what we are to expect from people who are of the World.
Jesus said. The world will hate you, because they hated me first. Anyone can check off the box that they are Christian. Then do and act just as the world does.

You say thin skinned people should not be in this Christian forum? Really? For your worlds must be that only the strongest will survive and inhabit the world. In America anyway.The law of the land is not to attack or abuse women. What moral standard do you live by? Islamic?

I am not here to engage in worldly talk driven by the sinful nature of the flesh with you. For Jesus said!... Live by the Spirit and you will not fulfill the sinful nature of the flesh.I will now move on to be about my fathers business who is in heaven, and not of things of this world. .

So you're basically here to call out everybody that doesn't practice their Christianity the way you do? What exactly are you here for? Seems to me you're only here to point out other people's faults so remember what the Bible says about putting up the speck in your brother's eye when you have a log in your own. Sorry but I'm not fooled by your sanctimonious rhetoric. All I see from you are words no actions. If you have nothing positive to contribute to this thread, then please go away.

 

[padah]

I read it several years ago. I also heard his testimony with Pat Robertson. I was surprised when Pat Robertson asked Mr. Weise the question "While you were there, did you see a lake of fire anywhere?" **Forehead slap!**

Whether he actually went to Hades or not, we do have information about two who did go to Hades, which is the rich man and Lazarus. Unfortunately, we have those who attempt to change it into a parable in order to get rid of it as being a literal event that Jesus was revealing us.

We actually have information about another who went to hades/sheol/hell, Jonah. But people do tend to water Jonah's story down and suggest he was just speaking metaphorically when he said God heard him from hell. However, there is no scriptural evidence that I can find to suggest that Jonah was just being poetic when he said he was in hell. So, if it is the case that Jonah did go to hell, then apparently God can hear a person in hell and respond to his cry with mercy.

 

[StanJ]

We actually have information about another who went to hades/sheol/hell, Jonah. But people do tend to water Jonah's story down and suggest he was just speaking metaphorically when he said God heard him from hell. However, there is no scriptural evidence that I can find to suggest that Jonah was just being poetic when he said he was in hell. So, if it is the case that Jonah did go to hell, then apparently God can hear a person in hell and respond to his cry with mercy.

It says Sheol In Jonah which connotes the grave because that's where Jonah thought he was. Who is not in hell as depicted by Jesus in Luke 16.

 

[padah]

I think a vision of hell would do it for me. I think that hell is so terrible we cannot even imagine here in our world. It is horrible that so many people are going there, even as we write.

Scripture seems to say that there is at least one man who went to hades/sheol/hell and came back, Jonah. But people do tend to water Jonah's story down and suggest he was just speaking metaphorically when he said God heard him from hell. However, there is no scriptural evidence that I can find to suggest that Jonah was just being poetic when he said he was in hell. So, if it is the case that Jonah did go to hell, then apparently God can hear a person in hell and respond to his cry with mercy.

 

[padah]

It says Sheol In Jonah which connotes the grave because that's where Jonah thought he was. Who is not in hell as depicted by Jesus in Luke 16.

From my understanding, Sheol and Hades are the same place. Sheol is the Hebrew word for hell while Hades is the greek. Jonah was in the same place that the rich man was in the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man.

 

[padah]

It appears that King James translates several words as "hell".

Here the word hell is tartaroō from the Tartaros̄:

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Here the word hell is hadēs:

Luk 16:22-23 KJV And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; (23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Here the word hell is sheh-ole'.

Jon 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.


Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries
H7585שְׁאֹל שְׁאוֹל
she'ôl she'ôl
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.

 

[StanJ]

From my understanding, Sheol and Hades are the same place. Sheol is the Hebrew word for hell while Hades is the greek. Jonah was in the same place that the rich man was in the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man.

Sheol Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_113.cfm

 

[padah]

Sheol Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_113.cfm

I apologize for posting this again but I'm not sure if it's showing up here. Anyway I just wanted to point out the sheol and hades, according to Strong is the same word but two different languages.

It appears that King James translates several words as "hell".

Here the word hell is tartaroō from the Tartaros̄:

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Here the word hell is hadēs:

Luk 16:22-23 KJV And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; (23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Here the word hell is sheh-ole'.

Jon 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.


Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries
H7585שְׁאֹל שְׁאוֹל
she'ôl she'ôl
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.

 

[StanJ]

I apologize for posting this again but I'm not sure if it's showing up here.

It appears that King James translates several words as "hell".

Here the word hell is tartaroō from the Tartaros̄:

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Here the word hell is hadēs:

Luk 16:22-23 KJV And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; (23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Here the word hell is sheh-ole'.

Jon 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.


Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries
H7585שְׁאֹל שְׁאוֹל
she'ôl she'ôl
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.

This is the very reason why I advocate that people do not use a 400 year-old Elizabethan English Bible as their main Bible. Try the NET.

 

[padah]

This is the very reason why I advocate that people do not use a 400 year-old Elizabethan English Bible as their main Bible. Try the NET.

Notice that the NET translates both "thanatos" and "hades" as death.

NET Bible
"Where, O death [thanatos], is your victory? Where, O death [hades], is your sting?" 1 Corinthians 10:55

14 [FONT=&quot]Then Death [thantos] and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14

[/FONT]23 [FONT=&quot]And in hell [hades], as he [the rich man] was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far off with Lazarus at his side. Luke 16:23

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 and said, “I called out to the Lord from my distress, and he answered me; from the belly of Sheol, I cried out for help, and you heard my prayer. 6)I went down to the very bottoms of the mountains; the gates of the netherworld barred me in forever [o-lawm'(meaning vanishing point) ]; but you brought me up from the Pit, O Lord, my God. Jonah2:2, 6[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

• Hades is not the lake of fire because Revelation 20:13-14 says that hades will be thrown into the lake of fire along with death after they both relinquish the dead.
• The rich man was not in the lake fire; he was in hades
• According to Strong Greek-Hebrew Dictionary, Sheol is the Hebrew equivalent of the greek word "Hades"
• Jonah was in Sheol, the Hebrew equivalent of the greek word "hades" thus Jonah and the rich man were in the same place.
  • There is no scripture to validate the idea that Jonah simply "thought" he was in sheol/ hades
  • Jesus never said that Jonah simply imagined his death
  • Jesus referred to Jonah as a prophet

 

[Ahwatukee]

This is the very reason why I advocate that people do not use a 400 year-old Elizabethan English Bible as their main Bible. Try the NET.

Hello StanJ,

You don't agree with what Padah has posted regarding the Sheol and Hades as being the same place? If you will look up the definition they are referring to the same place, which is the realm of the unrighteous departed dead. Properly, "the unseen" place.

Strong's Concordance

sheol: underworld (place to which people descend at death)

HELPS Word-studies
86 hádēs (from 1 /A "not" and idein/eidō, "see") – properly, the "unseen place," referring to the (invisible) realm in which all the unrighteous dead reside, i.e. the present dwelling place of all the departed (deceased); Hades.

Sheol/Hades is that receptacle within the heart of the earth where the rich man went and still is, as well all of the unrighteous dead from the beginning of time. After the millennial period, the resurrection of the unrighteous dead will take place (Rev.20:11-15) where the spirits/souls of those who are in Sheol/Hades will be reunited with their resurrected bodies where they will stand before God to be judged. Anyone's name not found written in the book of life will then be thrown into the Geenna, the lake of fire.

Tartaroo/tartarus, is used only once in 2 Pet. 2:4 and referred to by description in Jude 6. I believe that the angles spoken of that were sent there is referring to those angels, those son's of God, who took wives from the progeny of mankind described in Gen.6:1 and also referred to in Enoch.


​

 

[padah]

Hello StanJ,

Tartaroo/tartarus, is used only once in 2 Pet. 2:4 and referred to by description in Jude 6. I believe that the angles spoken of that were sent there is referring to those angels, those son's of God, who took wives from the progeny of mankind described in Gen.6:1 and also referred to in Enoch.


​

I totally agree with that.

 

[samuel23]

I disagree on that one, there is no scriptural evidence to make one believe that the "holding place" in 2 Peter 2:4 is the same place that the angels in Jude were placed. One is a holding place, the other is the lowest hades, totally different, one contained the spirits of men, the other contained angels, not at all the same.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Notice that the NET translates both "thanatos" and "hades" as death.

NET Bible
"Where, O death [thanatos], is your victory? Where, O death [hades], is your sting?" 1 Corinthians 10:55

14 Then Death [thantos] and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14

23 And in hell [hades], as he [the rich man] was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far off with Lazarus at his side. Luke 16:23

2 and said, “I called out to the Lord from my distress, and he answered me; from the belly of Sheol, I cried out for help, and you heard my prayer. 6)I went down to the very bottoms of the mountains; the gates of the netherworld barred me in forever [o-lawm'(meaning vanishing point) ]; but you brought me up from the Pit, O Lord, my God. Jonah2:2, 6

• Hades is not the lake of fire because Revelation 20:13-14 says that hades will be thrown into the lake of fire along with death after they both relinquish the dead.
• The rich man was not in the lake fire; he was in hades
• According to Strong Greek-Hebrew Dictionary, Sheol is the Hebrew equivalent of the greek word "Hades"
• Jonah was in Sheol, the Hebrew equivalent of the greek word "hades" thus Jonah and the rich man were in the same place.
  • There is no scripture to validate the idea that Jonah simply "thought" he was in sheol/ hades
  • Jesus never said that Jonah simply imagined his death
  • Jesus referred to Jonah as a prophet

Hello Padah,

I am in complete agreement with what you have posted. Many Bible translations will have the words Geenna, Hades and Tartaroo all translated as "hell," Yet they are three separate places. Jesus identified Hades as being located down under the earth:

"And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades." - Luke 10:15

Geenna is used figuratively to represent the Lake of Fire, which is not the same place as Hades. As you pointed out, Hades will deliver up the dead at the great white throne judgment and then anyone's name not found in the book of life will then be thrown into the lake of fire/Geenna.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I disagree on that one, there is no scriptural evidence to make one believe that the "holding place" in 2 Peter 2:4 is the same place that the angels in Jude were placed. One is a holding place, the other is the lowest hades, totally different, one contained the spirits of men, the other contained angels, not at all the same.

Both 2 Pet.2:4 and Jude 6 are speaking about the same angels. That's why I said that Tartartus is used once in 2 pet.2:4 and by description only in Jude 6. They are both talking about the same angels and the same place, where they are kept in those gloomy dungeons in chains of darkness until the great white throne judgment.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I disagree on that one, there is no scriptural evidence to make one believe that the "holding place" in 2 Peter 2:4 is the same place that the angels in Jude were placed. One is a holding place, the other is the lowest hades, totally different, one contained the spirits of men, the other contained angels, not at all the same.

"For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to Hell/Tartartus, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;" - 2 Pet.2:4

"And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day." - Jude 6

You see the similarities of both 2 Pet.2:4 and Jude 6? Even though Peter uses the word "Tartarus," Jude is speaking of the same place by description.

 

[padah]

Hello Ahwatukee,

Thanks for the input!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello Ahwatukee,

Thanks for the input!

Always my pleasure to present scriptural truth and thanks for your input as well.

 

[padah]

"For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to Hell/Tartartus, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;" - 2 Pet.2:4

"And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day." - Jude 6

You see the similarities of both 2 Pet.2:4 and Jude 6? Even though Peter uses the word "Tartarus," Jude is speaking of the same place by description.

Ahwatukee, I agree with you here. It's difficult to believe they are not referencing the same place. Not to mention 1 Enoch, chapters 1-6, while not canonical, seems to be referencing the same place and event. That's pretty impressive because at least those chapters of the book are believed to have been written about 200 years prior to the birth of Jesus, assuming scholars are correct about the dates.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Ahwatukee, I agree with you here. It's difficult to believe they are not referencing the same place. Not to mention 1 Enoch, chapters 1-6, while not canonical, seems to be referencing the same place and event. That's pretty impressive because at least those chapters of the book are believed to have been written about 200 years prior to the birth of Jesus, assuming scholars are correct about the dates.

Yes, I have a copy of Ethiopic Enoch and according to the preface, the book of Enoch used to be apart of the scriptures, which is why both Jesus and Jude quote from it. Enoch goes into great detail about those angels who sinned by taking wives from the daughters of men and thereby defiling themselves. And also goes into great detail in regards to the angels also teaching mankind about sorcery, divination, the dividing of roots and trees, astrology, how to make weapons of war, the use of paint and dyes, the beautifying of the eyebrows, etc. And because of this the world was altered. This was the reason for the flood, as well as to destroy the offspring of the angels, those giants.

Enoch goes into great detail regarding these events.