HELL
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S
No, not always. My perspective is in the links I supplied in post 327. Luke 16 shows us that Hades and Paradise were not in or under the earth, but a spiritual place within sensory perception of one another. The problem with sheol in the Old Testament is that it can connote; underworld, grave, hell, or pit, so understanding the context of where it is used is imperative.
It's always a problem when the destination language has the same word for more than one word in the source language. 'Love' is a good example of that as there are 5 words from Greek translated as 'love' in English.
Both the ancient Hebrews and Greeks thought that Sheol / Hades was an actual physical place when we know now that it is a spiritual place.
Gehenna is another issue all together but along the same lines. I guess the bottom line is context is everything.
It's always a problem when the destination language has the same word for more than one word in the source language. 'Love' is a good example of that as there are 5 words from Greek translated as 'love' in English.
Both the ancient Hebrews and Greeks thought that Sheol / Hades was an actual physical place when we know now that it is a spiritual place.
Gehenna is another issue all together but along the same lines. I guess the bottom line is context is everything.
Jesus identified Hades as being under the earth (Luke 10:15). Neither Sheol nor Hades should ever be translated as grave, tomb or sepulcher. Whenever you see the words Sheol or Hades, it is always referring to the realm of departed spirits. Regarding Hades, the fact that Abraham said that there was a "great chasm" fixed in between the place of paradise and the place of torment, demonstrates that these two places were just across from each other.
When the great white throne judgment takes place, those spirits who will have been in Sheol/Hades will be resurrected and will stand before God at the great white throne judgment. - Rev.20:11-15
The proper name representing the grave, tomb or Sepulcher in the OT is the word "qeber" and mnémeion in the NT. But Sheol and Hades always refer to the place of departed spirits under the earth.
When the great white throne judgment takes place, those spirits who will have been in Sheol/Hades will be resurrected and will stand before God at the great white throne judgment. - Rev.20:11-15
The proper name representing the grave, tomb or Sepulcher in the OT is the word "qeber" and mnémeion in the NT. But Sheol and Hades always refer to the place of departed spirits under the earth.
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S
What Jesus is referring to in Luke 10:15 is the status of Capernaum as being a very viable town then being reduced to deserted one, as cities don't go to hell. It was ultimately abandoned and ceased to exist as a community in the 11th century CE. It was Peter's home.
Again you have to understand all the connotations of the word Hades in order to understand what Jesus was saying. Psalm 49:14 is referring to the grave, as do many others in the OT.
Again you have to understand all the connotations of the word Hades in order to understand what Jesus was saying. Psalm 49:14 is referring to the grave, as do many others in the OT.
Sorry, but I don't agree with that. Sheol and Hades always refer to the same place. Jesus wasn't speaking about the city of Capernaum going down to Hades, but the people in it who didn't repent at the miracles that were performed. I did a complete study of Sheol and Hades. It is a place with gates and bars. It has different levels and it is referred to as being down under the earth:
========================================
Characteristics of:
· Is down under the earth - Gen.37:35, 42:38, 44:29, 44::31, Num.16:30, 16:33, Deut.32:22, 1 Sam.2:6, 2 kings 2:6, Job 11:7-8, 17:16, Ps.30:3, 86:13, Prov.9:18, 15:24, Isa.5:14, 14:9, 14:11, 14:15, Isa.38:18, Ezk.31:15-17, Ezk.32:21, Ezk.32:27, Mt.11:23, Lk.10:15,
· Has multiple levels - Deut.32:22, Job 11:7-8,
· Referred to as the pit - Job 17:13, Ps.30:3, Prov.1:12, Isa.14:15, Isa.38:18, Ezk.31:15-17
· Has Chambers - Prov.7:27
· Has Gates/Bars - Job 17:16, Isa.38:10, Mt.16:18
· A place of torment in fire – Lk.16:23-24
· Is a literal entity representing the same location – Rev.6:8, 20:14
Sheol (sheh-ole') The underworld (place to which the spirits of people descend at death)
Hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates -- grave, hell, pit.
Hades (hah'-dace) The unseen world:
hádēs (from 1 /A "not" and idein/eidō, "see") – properly, the "unseen place," referring to the (invisible) realm in which the unrighteous dead reside, i.e. the present dwelling place of all the departed (deceased); Hades.
========================================
Characteristics of:
· Is down under the earth - Gen.37:35, 42:38, 44:29, 44::31, Num.16:30, 16:33, Deut.32:22, 1 Sam.2:6, 2 kings 2:6, Job 11:7-8, 17:16, Ps.30:3, 86:13, Prov.9:18, 15:24, Isa.5:14, 14:9, 14:11, 14:15, Isa.38:18, Ezk.31:15-17, Ezk.32:21, Ezk.32:27, Mt.11:23, Lk.10:15,
· Has multiple levels - Deut.32:22, Job 11:7-8,
· Referred to as the pit - Job 17:13, Ps.30:3, Prov.1:12, Isa.14:15, Isa.38:18, Ezk.31:15-17
· Has Chambers - Prov.7:27
· Has Gates/Bars - Job 17:16, Isa.38:10, Mt.16:18
· A place of torment in fire – Lk.16:23-24
· Is a literal entity representing the same location – Rev.6:8, 20:14
Sheol (sheh-ole') The underworld (place to which the spirits of people descend at death)
Hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates -- grave, hell, pit.
Hades (hah'-dace) The unseen world:
hádēs (from 1 /A "not" and idein/eidō, "see") – properly, the "unseen place," referring to the (invisible) realm in which the unrighteous dead reside, i.e. the present dwelling place of all the departed (deceased); Hades.
S
His tomb was once at the heart of the huge rock that it was dug out of so yes he was in the Heart of the Earth but as you well know our planet is not flat, it has many mountains and valleys and at that time people would have wholeheartedly agreed with the fact that Jesus was in the heart of the earth seeing as he was in a sealed tomb in the side of a mountain.
You're trying to make words into literal renditions when they are being used metaphorically. That is my whole point about reading the Bible in context which includes the style that is being written in.
FYI even our own heart literally is not in the center of our body.
You're trying to make words into literal renditions when they are being used metaphorically. That is my whole point about reading the Bible in context which includes the style that is being written in.
FYI even our own heart literally is not in the center of our body.
P
I'm sure Jonah's cries to God began in the belly of the fish as stated in 2:1; however, the next verse suggests that Jonah's soul entered another realm from which he cried, the nether-world. Considering the fact that he was in the fish for three days, believing he was dead doesn't seem like such a stretch. If you believe the story about the rich man and Lazarus, believing that Jonah could be crying from the nether-world shouldn't be much of a stretch either.
Here are the verses translated by the Jewish Publication Society (JPS)
Jon 2:1-2 JPS (2:2) Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly. (2) (2:3) And he said: I called out of mine affliction unto the LORD, and He answered me; out of the belly of the nether-world cried I, and Thou heardest my voice.
Here are the verses translated by the Jewish Publication Society (JPS)
Jon 2:1-2 JPS (2:2) Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly. (2) (2:3) And he said: I called out of mine affliction unto the LORD, and He answered me; out of the belly of the nether-world cried I, and Thou heardest my voice.
S
A. Jonah's prayer reflects what actually went on in chapter 1. All of them thought they were going to die.
B. Jonah was vomited by the fish into dry land whole and unscathed, so he obviously wasn't dead.
C. I think you're straining way too hard at trying to find something to support your point of you when there isn't anything.
B. Jonah was vomited by the fish into dry land whole and unscathed, so he obviously wasn't dead.
C. I think you're straining way too hard at trying to find something to support your point of you when there isn't anything.
P
I'm not sure I understand what you see in chapter 1 that helps to support the idea that Jonah didn't die. And as far as "straining way too hard at trying to find something to support" my idea, it's not my idea that I'm straining to support. I'm straining to find biblical reasons to support the idea that Jonah's account of his ordeal was nothing more than melodrama. I'm also trying to find a good reason why Jesus would compare his real death of three days to Jonah's "imagined" death of three days. Wouldn't Lazarus have been a better comparison, except for the fact that Lazarus was dead 4 days? Was Jesus merely stressing the number or days he would be dead or the miracle of resurrection?
Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
The wicked are chaff, do not make sense and could not participate in
a world ruled by the Father.
Not so the wicked! They are like chaff that the wind blows away.
Psalm 1:4
The fire will burn them up.
His winnowing fork is in his hand to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Luke 3:17
Therefore they will be like the morning mist, like the early dew that disappears, like chaff swirling from a threshing floor, like smoke escaping through a window.
Hosea 13:3
When people imagine God will make the wicked eternal to be tortured
forever, is making their existance more important than it is, and their
end some kind of eternal torture show.
Now guilt and anger generate this feelings, where extreme vengance is
demanded on such evil people.
The lake of fire is to be truly feared and the ways of the Lord loved, but these
visions of torment for eternity do not make any sense.
The ways of the Lord begin with respect, but there basis is love and healing,
which is so far from this vision of punishment and endless torment without purpose
or conclusion. The wicked are slaves to their own destructive acts and desires,
which hold them prisoner. Total destruction is release as far as release can be
constructed.
a world ruled by the Father.
Not so the wicked! They are like chaff that the wind blows away.
Psalm 1:4
The fire will burn them up.
His winnowing fork is in his hand to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Luke 3:17
Therefore they will be like the morning mist, like the early dew that disappears, like chaff swirling from a threshing floor, like smoke escaping through a window.
Hosea 13:3
When people imagine God will make the wicked eternal to be tortured
forever, is making their existance more important than it is, and their
end some kind of eternal torture show.
Now guilt and anger generate this feelings, where extreme vengance is
demanded on such evil people.
The lake of fire is to be truly feared and the ways of the Lord loved, but these
visions of torment for eternity do not make any sense.
The ways of the Lord begin with respect, but there basis is love and healing,
which is so far from this vision of punishment and endless torment without purpose
or conclusion. The wicked are slaves to their own destructive acts and desires,
which hold them prisoner. Total destruction is release as far as release can be
constructed.
Hi Padah: I think you are straining a bit, Jesus said Jonas was in the belly of the whale, Jesus did not say that Jonas was dead. Also Jesus was alive in Spirit form in the heart of the earth even though His body was dead. I think Jonas calling the belly of the whale hell is similar to saying, war is hell, not in either case was the person actually in the physical Hades, just the normal use of metaphor.
We are to compare scripture to scripture it clarifiesa .Not compare scripture to the private interpretations of men.
The flood is mentioned twice in the Quran. Can we add it to the scriptures which are already perfect, as in complete? Why go above that which is written? Not enough words in the Bible by which we could know Him ?
The flood is mentioned twice in the Quran. Can we add it to the scriptures which are already perfect, as in complete? Why go above that which is written? Not enough words in the Bible by which we could know Him ?
Yes he provided a living sacrifice by which he gives us a new spirit, eternal life. There is no physical hades ,called hell. Hell is the living suffering we undergo. War is hell . There are no different degrees of suffering. Christ suffered for all .
The phrase heart of the earth speaks of a living sacrifice. He poured out His Spirit life (not seen) as if it was literal blood.
Literal blood without the spirit essence of spirit life is dead .When poured out into the ground after the Spirit of life has departed it returned to where it was taken for (dust).
The phrase heart of the earth speaks of a living sacrifice. He poured out His Spirit life (not seen) as if it was literal blood.
Literal blood without the spirit essence of spirit life is dead .When poured out into the ground after the Spirit of life has departed it returned to where it was taken for (dust).