Sermon on the mount - life or legalistic junk

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A

Ariel82

Guest
You talk like the only principles that can be defended are if Jesus was speaking. You forget
He is speaking through scripture, it is there infront of you but you are ignoring it.

You cannot face that some of these guys are truly deluded and driven by desires not from the
Lord and teaching that is in total error. Do you think Kenneth Copeland or Benny Hinn think
they are wrong to any degree?
Let's again address your misconceptions.

1. I accept the Bible, what I don't accept is that if folks reject YOUR words they are rejecting the gospel.

You have it figured out 100%

2. I can face the fact that many are deluded. Folks who can't see their own bad behavior and slander people by saying people believe things that they don't are very deluded.

3. Firmly agree they are being lead by a spirit that is NOT the Holy Spirit. This spirit blinds them to their own faults and points out the faults of everyone else around them.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
Take a vote: who finds this statement to be true:

the gospel is about repentance, confession and
walking righteously?

I will make a poll.
I'm certain God will be impressed with what men think of His word. I suspect God does not take polls nor is He influenced by what men think about His word.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
If the enemy have just nullified all the basis of these good words, just wiped
them away, saying only what I choose to accept in my life based on my experience,
because I am ok in the Lord, no matter what conscience, the word or anyone else
says, they are impregnable.

If you cannot see this is exactly what they have done, you are blind.
Yeah, because you can see into the hearts of others?

I tell you and them you both are grieving the Holy Spirit, yet you refuse to see how and repent.

Yet I am the blind one?
******

Let me address, instead the doctrine you find so objectionable:

Eternal security says that God loves me no matter what because I am his beloved child.

That is what I call diplomatic immunity.

Do you know the term?

A diplomat can break the laws of the nation they are visiting and not be punished by that government. However they can be deported or punished by their King.

People who are saved know they are children of God and will eventually go home to Him.

We could break all the rules of this world and not be punished, but that would not make us very good diplomats.

As Ambassodors of Christ we are called to live godly lives out of love for our Father and king....

Making any sense so far?
 
Apr 4, 2017
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well. I just get tired of seeing a guy who does nothing but bring a solid grace message every day get attacked. one person lies, slanders, and refuses to give straight answers, one talks about the love and grace of God daily.

which one is better. which one should not get attacked?
Grace is combined with truth and faith....to say all things come from grace might be correct, but it can mislead babes in Christ...and keep them at the cross and not propel them into a God called sending....

I am not against the Biblical defined grace message....what I am agaisnt are those that say by grace alone you have all you need...that is not Bible truth at all....Grace has to be appropriated through faith....

We saw hellfire preaching start around 1948 when Israel become a nation because the fathers of dispensation were being proved right and the end was near......hellfire messages unintentionally induced works based salvation and working to be righteous through your own power....this was tempered 20 years alter with the very early grace message that was ignored by many and it was Oral Roberts when he starting saying Something Good is going to happen and it brought about the revelation that God is indeed a Good God...Oral was not perfect but he was used to change the narrative and bring balance to the hell fire works based crowd...by 78 a questionable & false doctrine started and it was the Word of Faith message.....we are now seeing that message being tempered with the grace and Jesus alone message and now all we see and hear about is grace, grace grace and that is all you need, just like you needed faith, faith, faith in the 80's....

before 1948 we heard one message REPENT and pick up your cross daily...Holiness was the change from within, and produced by fruit of the spirit being made manifest by the Holy Spirit....

The REPENT message is coming back because grace must be tempered and balanced with TRUTH....the grace message has slid right into the ditch the WOF message did...in an effort to make the nearly to good to be true Gospel less scary we now have grace driven false teaching....we have people removing entire passages of the Bible stating that is not for me it applied to_______ .

Grace alone never saves anyone....faith alone never made anyone wealthy....truth is never told because it separates the soul and spirit and and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.....but when these things are combined, radical salvation and radical transformation takes place and then total trust in the Lord is established and you are propelled into your call and sent to GO & MAKE, not simply GO & SIT.....

The easy believe grace message omits the whole truth, just like the blab and grab faith movement produces fear and condemnation....

There is a price to be paid to be a true son or daughter of God and this is because in covenant relationship there is GOD's Part and MANS's part....

I heard a popular easy grace hireling tell his people that fearing God is an OT concept and not needed today, because of Grace....He then said hey ya'll...looking so dapper with his trendy under cut hair doo, ripped skinny jeans, chuck Taylors and untucked super spiritual shirt with crosses all over it....confessing with your mouth the Lord Jesus is not accurate...grace allows him to be Lord without you verbally stating it....because ya know church....God is just so much about love and mercy and he knws when we mess up....he expects you to mess up, but hey he sent me here to tell ya that its ok if you continually mess up...his grrraaaacccceeee covers a multitude of SIN...sense he expects you to mess up he knows other are too, so there is no nee dfor you to check someones else out...cuz God, Daddy, poppy, man he knoooowwws allll about iiiit....just beleive you are good and his grrraaaacccceeee will cover it alll.....hey church stand with me as worship pastor joey and his two-tones come to play Hillsong's latest disco hit.....stand with me , lift those arms up and yeah, feel good, yeah feel the light ocming in...yeah dont worry about the mistakes...yeah now repeat after me...

God I love you because you love me...God I am sooo sorry for the mess ups I did this week...and God...say this with me church if you need to have grace save you..God thank you for saving me and then freeing me to be your kid...God thank you for dying for me and allowing me to continue in my old state because your grace covers it for me....God thanks for making a place for me to go when I die...and God I believe in you...Now church do you feel the grace coming into you...yeah, yeah thats it...thats grace it saved you...Happy days church grace come down today...Oh thank you God...we are free to me....and free to be them....WOW church God is a good God, a good daddy, now if you repeated that you ar now saved by grace adn are free.......we are going to collect the offering now....


Sadly I wish I could say I made that all up, but no sir...it was the real thing....and the guy who did is one of the most influential new generation hirelings on TBN today....he has direct and indirect influence over millions....

You read his "sinners prayer" and then tell me whats wrong with it and then you may begin to understand why some of us are sounding the alarm that it is never by grace alone...
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
I'm certain God will be impressed with what men think of His word. I suspect God does not take polls nor is He influenced by what men think about His word.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
My God hears my prayers and loves to hear what I think of scripture. What I have learnt and what I believe He is saying to me.

He tells me that if people can agree on the basics, then there will be more productive conversation.

How is your relationship with God going?
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Take a vote: who finds this statement to be true:

the gospel is about repentance, confession and
walking righteously?

I will make a poll.
The problem with such polls is it is down to the responder to interpret
what you mean. They could choose to agree to appear to be the same
or to disagree if they want to create an obvious split.

The group we are talking about intentionally want to appear to agree
by redefining what the words mean from their biblical meaning and then
say we have corrupted them, and they are right and we are apostate.

But somehow for you for them to apostate us is ok, but if we respond
you are being judgemental and unChrist like is wrong. So unfortunately
you are just playing both sides as if this makes sense and is the Lords
leading for you. Now for some defined groups I would actually agree with
your approach, but for these guys, not a chance.

I am reminded by the Lord the enemy is the father of lies. His ways are to
change everything, make things appear than that which is true and destroy
the good. So attacking righteous behaviour, changing the meaning of Gods
word and basic foundations, attacking normal bible believing christians as works
of the enemy, are all indications of which spiritual power?
 
Feb 24, 2015
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168
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You have it figured out 100%
Again the argument of perfection.

Righteousness is simple. Murder is murder, it cannot be justified, a person is not forgiven
while commiting it because of some faith position of the past. That is the road to
lawlessness and chaos.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Again the argument of perfection.

Righteousness is simple. Murder is murder, it cannot be justified, a person is not forgiven
while commiting it because of some faith position of the past. That is the road to
lawlessness and chaos.
What about anger and unforgiveness?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
My God hears my prayers and loves to hear what I think of scripture. What I have learnt and what I believe He is saying to me.

He tells me that if people can agree on the basics, then there will be more productive conversation.

How is your relationship with God going?
Am I sensing some micro-aggressions in this?

Scripture is of no private interpretation. God is not a respecter of persons. Gods word is declared from the heavens not debated among men. Gods word is forever settled in heaven and not one jot nor tittle shall pass from it.

I'm certain you already know these things but men also will apply the word of God to suit their own biases. This is the greatest source of contention among those who profess to know Christ. Not all who profess actually possess.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Ephesians 4
25 Therefore, putting away falsehood, let every one speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another. 26 Be angry but do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and give no opportunity to the devil. 28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his hands, so that he may be able to give to those in need. 29 Let no evil talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for edifying, as fits the occasion, that it may impart grace to those who hear. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, with all malice, 32 and be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
5 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Am I sensing some micro-aggressions in this?

Scripture is of no private interpretation. God is not a respecter of persons. Gods word is declared from the heavens not debated among men. Gods word is forever settled in heaven and not one jot nor tittle shall pass from it.

I'm certain you already know these things but men also will apply the word of God to suit their own biases. This is the greatest source of contention among those who profess to know Christ. Not all who profess actually possess.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Weariness yes....how does your statements add to the conversation?

Yes God's word will not change. We humans are often wrong, but God in His mercy still loves us.

How them does that negate that we should forgive and love others?

That we should esteem them higher than ourselves.

People ask "why don't they do this and accept me as I am?"

God asks us "why don't YOU go the extra mile and listen and learn what they are saying? Why don't you learn to speak their language instead of demanding that they speak yours?"

All I hear is constant slander.

"They are telling People that they don't have to live godly lives!"

"No we aren't. We want people to live godly lives, but you are telling People that they have to work to keep their salvation."

"They say living godly lives aren't important"

"You think you can lose your salvation""You only do good works out of fear of God not love"

"They say we aren't saved, well they aren't saved if they don't believe folks can live godly lives."

Rinse and repeat....
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Grace is combined with truth and faith....to say all things come from grace might be correct, but it can mislead babes in Christ...and keep them at the cross and not propel them into a God called sending....

I am not against the Biblical defined grace message....what I am agaisnt are those that say by grace alone you have all you need...that is not Bible truth at all....Grace has to be appropriated through faith....

We saw hellfire preaching start around 1948 when Israel become a nation because the fathers of dispensation were being proved right and the end was near......hellfire messages unintentionally induced works based salvation and working to be righteous through your own power....this was tempered 20 years alter with the very early grace message that was ignored by many and it was Oral Roberts when he starting saying Something Good is going to happen and it brought about the revelation that God is indeed a Good God...Oral was not perfect but he was used to change the narrative and bring balance to the hell fire works based crowd...by 78 a questionable & false doctrine started and it was the Word of Faith message.....we are now seeing that message being tempered with the grace and Jesus alone message and now all we see and hear about is grace, grace grace and that is all you need, just like you needed faith, faith, faith in the 80's....

before 1948 we heard one message REPENT and pick up your cross daily...Holiness was the change from within, and produced by fruit of the spirit being made manifest by the Holy Spirit....

The REPENT message is coming back because grace must be tempered and balanced with TRUTH....the grace message has slid right into the ditch the WOF message did...in an effort to make the nearly to good to be true Gospel less scary we now have grace driven false teaching....we have people removing entire passages of the Bible stating that is not for me it applied to_______ .

Grace alone never saves anyone....faith alone never made anyone wealthy....truth is never told because it separates the soul and spirit and and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.....but when these things are combined, radical salvation and radical transformation takes place and then total trust in the Lord is established and you are propelled into your call and sent to GO & MAKE, not simply GO & SIT.....

The easy believe grace message omits the whole truth, just like the blab and grab faith movement produces fear and condemnation....

There is a price to be paid to be a true son or daughter of God and this is because in covenant relationship there is GOD's Part and MANS's part....

I heard a popular easy grace hireling tell his people that fearing God is an OT concept and not needed today, because of Grace....He then said hey ya'll...looking so dapper with his trendy under cut hair doo, ripped skinny jeans, chuck Taylors and untucked super spiritual shirt with crosses all over it....confessing with your mouth the Lord Jesus is not accurate...grace allows him to be Lord without you verbally stating it....because ya know church....God is just so much about love and mercy and he knws when we mess up....he expects you to mess up, but hey he sent me here to tell ya that its ok if you continually mess up...his grrraaaacccceeee covers a multitude of SIN...sense he expects you to mess up he knows other are too, so there is no nee dfor you to check someones else out...cuz God, Daddy, poppy, man he knoooowwws allll about iiiit....just beleive you are good and his grrraaaacccceeee will cover it alll.....hey church stand with me as worship pastor joey and his two-tones come to play Hillsong's latest disco hit.....stand with me , lift those arms up and yeah, feel good, yeah feel the light ocming in...yeah dont worry about the mistakes...yeah now repeat after me...

God I love you because you love me...God I am sooo sorry for the mess ups I did this week...and God...say this with me church if you need to have grace save you..God thank you for saving me and then freeing me to be your kid...God thank you for dying for me and allowing me to continue in my old state because your grace covers it for me....God thanks for making a place for me to go when I die...and God I believe in you...Now church do you feel the grace coming into you...yeah, yeah thats it...thats grace it saved you...Happy days church grace come down today...Oh thank you God...we are free to me....and free to be them....WOW church God is a good God, a good daddy, now if you repeated that you ar now saved by grace adn are free.......we are going to collect the offering now....


Sadly I wish I could say I made that all up, but no sir...it was the real thing....and the guy who did is one of the most influential new generation hirelings on TBN today....he has direct and indirect influence over millions....

You read his "sinners prayer" and then tell me whats wrong with it and then you may begin to understand why some of us are sounding the alarm that it is never by grace alone...
Yeppee....another who instead of starting his own thread to hold a discussion wants to hijack someone else's to build his castle....let's see how many join him....

Yeah I know, I hijacked the thread too, but I do bring my post back to the topic at hand: the sermon on the mount

Do you live it or just give verbal assent to its goodness?

Do you go the extra mile to understand what another is saying before you condemn them as enemies of the gospel?

Do you bless those who falsely accuse you?

Do you forgive?

Have you asked for forgiveness of a brother you offended before going before the altar?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Apr 4, 2017
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Yeppee....another who instead of starting his own thread to hold a discussion wants to hijack someone else's to build his castle....let's see how many join him....
And I am called the bully....
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
And I am called the bully....
Really?

Telling you the polite thing to do is start your own thread of you want to talk about a topic that isn't what the OP created this thread to discuss, is considered bullying to you?

Most people won't read page 13 on the forum.
.If you want a true discussion on the topic, starting your own thread would allow you to express your ideas and have others who want to discuss it with you engage.

Typically it's rude to walk into a Bible study talking about the Sermon on the mount and demand everyone talk about your topic of easy believism?

I guess you might be able to tie that in to how wrong everyone else is and reinforce the false belief that folks are teaching a false grace message without actually listening to what anyone else has to say.

Great place to build up prejudices and encite anger...
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Anyone that loves Hyp******e hates real grace.
Why don't you follow the forum rules?

I don't know what hyper Grace is.

I only know of God's grace that saved and is sanctify me.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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To "sin willfully" (Hebrews 10:26) in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21) not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in v. 29 seems to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is a term often applied to Christians; is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse. (And by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians and sinful things without experiencing salvation as Paul clearly explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the Sabbath was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), the Lord was saved (Leviticus 10:3), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36) and many other things that just do not line up with Scripture.


In verse 39, the author sets up the contrast that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the context, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as an active participant in the Christian community of believers, but who has subsequently committed apostasy by renouncing his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and by repudiating the work and the person of Christ himself. Such a person’s apostasy is thus evidence that his identification with the Christian community was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.
Did you see how he avoided V26 altogether?

Then again, cultists usually avoid the important scriptures that disprove their heresy.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Interestingly teasing out of several contributors on another thread, the Lords prayer
is old testament and new testament.

I have spent months thinking about the Lords prayer, well, on and off, seeing different
aspects, praying it, quoting it, and finally it has me embedded in it.

Our Father who art in heaven - the Lord is our Father through Christ, Amen
Hallowed be your name - Your name is glorious, great, worthy of praise
Your kingdom come,
Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven, - May your rule be here today with us,
Give us this day our daily bread, - Meet our needs as we have them
Forgive us our sins as we forgive others, - As we walk in the way Jesus forgive us for our failures
Lead us not into temptation, - Strengthen us against being tempted to sin
Deliver us from evil - Thwart the ways of evil in our daily lives and experiences

Now this is all applicable to us, here and now.
For those who believe ones sins now and as you do them are already forgiven
they regard it as unbelief to suggest we might not be forgiven, and especially
not with a condition like we have to forgive others.

So subtle is this rebellion, that forgiveness is now automatic no matter the heart
attitude. Jesus in the parable of the merciful King makes clear this is heresy, and
the Lord will judge such unforgiveness is a sinful heart, by not forgiving the sin which
they plead to be taken into account. Matt 18:21-35

This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.
Matt 18:35