Yes this is a good point and where I was going with it in my last post. I'd also note that the story of Joseph and Mary and Joseph's thoughts that Mary had cheated on him and him deciding to spare her from being a public example and so God telling him that indeed the Christ was within her womb seems to me to be a sort of parallel of the Torah to Patriarch Judah and Tamar. Consider the similarities of how Tamar was accused of playing the harlot and would have been burnt, and then of course she presented Judah's tokens which he gave to her and so Judah acknowledged it and proclaimed that she had been more righteous than him. And of course through Judah's justice and mercy he gained the blessing of kingship from Israel, which is also a prophecy of the Christ. Additionally, Judah and Tamar and their children begotten, particularly Pharez, of that union are of course in the genealogy of the Christ in the Gospels.
Virgin or young woman?
- Thread starter JohnTalmid
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I did not accuse you of anything........I asked you a question and wondered why you were preaching/teaching people anything if you are not even sure of your own salvation. You should reread your OP to see my first comment in context.
Pretty sure you were here not long ago under another Screen Name.............and, given what you are teaching, I can understand why you are "unsure," but can not for the life of me understand why you would say you were "saved" in 1990.
Saved...........equates to having salvation through the grace of God.......which equates to being a Christian........Far as I know those who preach/teach the Jewish Religion are not disciples of Christ.
I got a PM from someone trying to teach this stuff..........can not remember who they were right off.........will have to look and see.........however.......in my opinion, you appear to be trying to cause confusion among believers concerning the Gospel of Christ........and THAT IS another Gospel than the one preached by Paul and the other Apostles.
[h=1]2 Corinthians
11[/h]
1[FONT="] .) Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.[/FONT]
2[FONT="] .) For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.[/FONT]
3[FONT="] .) But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.[/FONT]
4[FONT="] .) For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
[/FONT]
Pretty sure you were here not long ago under another Screen Name.............and, given what you are teaching, I can understand why you are "unsure," but can not for the life of me understand why you would say you were "saved" in 1990.
Saved...........equates to having salvation through the grace of God.......which equates to being a Christian........Far as I know those who preach/teach the Jewish Religion are not disciples of Christ.
I got a PM from someone trying to teach this stuff..........can not remember who they were right off.........will have to look and see.........however.......in my opinion, you appear to be trying to cause confusion among believers concerning the Gospel of Christ........and THAT IS another Gospel than the one preached by Paul and the other Apostles.
[h=1]2 Corinthians
11[/h]
1[FONT="] .) Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.[/FONT]
2[FONT="] .) For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.[/FONT]
3[FONT="] .) But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.[/FONT]
4[FONT="] .) For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
[/FONT]
You said "Seems to me you need to take care of that "unsure" part of YOUR LIFE before telling others how they should live theirs."
I'm sure. I answered your question I am "unsure" about whether I am a "Christian" as most think of it. I live like Messiah and keep His testimony though I doubt many Christians would accept that I am a Christian. So again I am saved as you say but not to add to the question of this post what is salvation according to Scripture?... Hope you see what I mean. I am not trying to be contentious with y'all just honest. Maybe accuse was the wrong choice of word. I still think it was poor taste to question my salvation based on whether I call myself Christian.
I'm sure. I answered your question I am "unsure" about whether I am a "Christian" as most think of it. I live like Messiah and keep His testimony though I doubt many Christians would accept that I am a Christian. So again I am saved as you say but not to add to the question of this post what is salvation according to Scripture?... Hope you see what I mean. I am not trying to be contentious with y'all just honest. Maybe accuse was the wrong choice of word. I still think it was poor taste to question my salvation based on whether I call myself Christian.
Not all of Isreal are born again Christians just as there is a difference between and outward Jew accoring to the flesh and an inawrd Jew who has been born again from above.
It is God who re-named His prople a new name in the book of Acts. His church, His bride Christian for a reason.
According to the scriptures salvation called redemption is to have ones sin(eternal damnation) atoned for, by another who gave his own spirit life in jeopardy for another (the new creation) . Christ uses the phrase to “drink blood” used as a parable to indicate the pouring out of that kind of spirit life.This is seeing literal blood without the spirit has no life to offer..
The word Christian without any other meaning added means; a resident of the city of Christ called the new Jerusalem or Zion . She is prepared as His etenal bride made of up of sinful Jews who have all there sin attoned for as well as Gentiles.
God puts no deference between the two purifying both by a work of His faith also called a labor of love..
The word virgin caries more than one way, it is used . It has its spiritual unseen connection (faith principle)
The whole church as a new creation male and female , Jew and gentile are considered the chaste virgin bride of Christ.
She is pictured in Revelation by a nunmber no man could count (144,000)used to represent all the saints, new as well as the Old testment saints One bride, one church, one gospel, one work of faith (Christ's) .
. And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. Rev 14:1
These are they which were not defiled with the strange woman ; for they are virgins(Christians) .They have not fornificated with other gods in the likeness of men. They remain faithful to Christ, their husband....not making the first commandment without effect by having other gods in a intimate relationship before our husband, Christ.
It is God who re-named His prople a new name in the book of Acts. His church, His bride Christian for a reason.
According to the scriptures salvation called redemption is to have ones sin(eternal damnation) atoned for, by another who gave his own spirit life in jeopardy for another (the new creation) . Christ uses the phrase to “drink blood” used as a parable to indicate the pouring out of that kind of spirit life.This is seeing literal blood without the spirit has no life to offer..
The word Christian without any other meaning added means; a resident of the city of Christ called the new Jerusalem or Zion . She is prepared as His etenal bride made of up of sinful Jews who have all there sin attoned for as well as Gentiles.
God puts no deference between the two purifying both by a work of His faith also called a labor of love..
The word virgin caries more than one way, it is used . It has its spiritual unseen connection (faith principle)
The whole church as a new creation male and female , Jew and gentile are considered the chaste virgin bride of Christ.
She is pictured in Revelation by a nunmber no man could count (144,000)used to represent all the saints, new as well as the Old testment saints One bride, one church, one gospel, one work of faith (Christ's) .
. And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. Rev 14:1
These are they which were not defiled with the strange woman ; for they are virgins(Christians) .They have not fornificated with other gods in the likeness of men. They remain faithful to Christ, their husband....not making the first commandment without effect by having other gods in a intimate relationship before our husband, Christ.
Mary as a parable or pattern is used to represent the bride of Christ as the mother of us all in the same way Peter(stone) is used to represent the living stones that make up the spiritual house of God, the church. The word virgin is used to indicate those not married, as widows. They would also represent those who were once fatherless. This is when it comes to our spiritual Father in heaven.
We were widows not part of His chaste virgin bride who in principle are espoused to one husband, Christ. Paul acted as a segregate mother as do all believers who hold out the gospel of Christ until He forms Christ in us. We are no longer considered of the flesh.... male or female, Jew nor Gentile.We must search out the spirutl meaning hid from the lost when it comes to the use of the word virgin..
Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I "travail in birth" again until Christ be formed in you,
We walk by faith, the unseen eternal and not by sight the temporal. Remembering that without parables (patterns) Christ spoke not.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God. sa 54:1-6
Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have webeen in thy sight, O LORD.We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen. Isa 26:17
For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bridethe church) , so shall thy God rejoice over thee. Isa 62:1-5
2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you (Timothy) as a chaste virgin to Christ.
We were widows not part of His chaste virgin bride who in principle are espoused to one husband, Christ. Paul acted as a segregate mother as do all believers who hold out the gospel of Christ until He forms Christ in us. We are no longer considered of the flesh.... male or female, Jew nor Gentile.We must search out the spirutl meaning hid from the lost when it comes to the use of the word virgin..
Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I "travail in birth" again until Christ be formed in you,
We walk by faith, the unseen eternal and not by sight the temporal. Remembering that without parables (patterns) Christ spoke not.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God. sa 54:1-6
Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have webeen in thy sight, O LORD.We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen. Isa 26:17
For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bridethe church) , so shall thy God rejoice over thee. Isa 62:1-5
2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you (Timothy) as a chaste virgin to Christ.
Another interesting thing I find in the Torah with Patriarch Judah, while it doesn't pertain to the virgin birth, it is a pretty clear prophecy of Jesus the Messiah, is the Blessings of Israel when he blesses and prophecies over the Patriarchs. The Torah is definitely worth studying for any Christian, because just like Jesus said, the scriptures testify of him. I also agree when talking to those that think they are jews, it helps to have a knowledge of the Torah I have found in my own adventures. I hope these will help you in your endeavor to reason about the Christ Jesus with the jews and may God's name be praised throughout Israel once again.
Genesis 49:8-12
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.
Genesis 49:8-12
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.
What was the whole theme of Isaiah 1-7?
What was the theme of Isaiah 8?
Do you know?
And when GOD then refers to remaliah as just a son,
what was GOD trying to make HIS people see and understand through these words about this extraordinary birth of this particular young maiden?
Read isaiah 2 to understand GOD declares to HIS people "why put your hopes in man...of what account is a man?"
and then HE declares a son?
THIS ONE is THE ONE we are to put our HOPE in
What was the theme of Isaiah 8?
Do you know?
And when GOD then refers to remaliah as just a son,
what was GOD trying to make HIS people see and understand through these words about this extraordinary birth of this particular young maiden?
Read isaiah 2 to understand GOD declares to HIS people "why put your hopes in man...of what account is a man?"
and then HE declares a son?
THIS ONE is THE ONE we are to put our HOPE in
I don't think most of us here are "scratching on the surface".... it seems that most people responding have a pretty clear picture, and understanding that Mary was, indeed, a virgin. Just as scripture states. Just as prophecy stated.
Being a virgin (by her own admission) chosen to give birth to Jesus was a miraculous fulfillment of many prophesies, and God's word.
You seem to be the only person here that cannot see that, or accept it for what it is.
Being a virgin (by her own admission) chosen to give birth to Jesus was a miraculous fulfillment of many prophesies, and God's word.
You seem to be the only person here that cannot see that, or accept it for what it is.