Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

Johnny_B · May 13, 2017

I hear you on this madness, I was part of an organization that was split apart over this non-sense. All because some believe in an experience over the word and blamed it on the Spirit. Here's what I am see happening in the body. All of the Biblical truths in denominations are being held on to by believers. You have believers that are holding to a Biblical doctrine of election, no double non-sense, the gifts of the Spirit, none of the madness, the plurality of leadership, no superstar pastor, all while holding the Word of God, not in legalism, as the source of all truth the body is to believe in the Spirit of love.

We have Reformative Bapticostal non-denominational of course.

What the gifts of the Spirit are for and the guidelines in I Corinthians 14. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up....12 So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church....19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue....24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all,25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you....26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said.30 If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent.31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged,32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets.33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace....39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.40 But all things should be done decently and in order.

There was none of the guidelines being used or any unbelievers being converted, nothing decent, on order, no peace, spirits not subject to the prophet, but plenty of confusion and nothing to build up the church.

preacher4truth · May 13, 2017

SovereignGrace said:

And as she stepped out the poison dissipated...

preacher4truth · May 13, 2017

Laish said:

Wow
I watched the vid presented in the op . My mind is blown? I won't go into how or why these folks are wrong here, it has been covered . What I will talk about is how can we defend them ? Folks talk about not wanting to acuse the pastor or the church congregation. What about the injuries inflicted on those seeking Christ . With this type of behavior from anyone.
I currently work with alcoholics and addicts to help them get back onto their feet. One of the first things I do is to get them into a good Christ centered church congregation. Can anyone in their right mind recommend any of the mentioned church groups to a recovering alcoholic or addict ? What do we tell a recovering brother or sister in Christ about doing a holy joint or about being drunk in the spirit? Sorry you should not go to this church because you can't hold spirit or you can't go because you bogart the spirit ? Come on sometimes we need to call it what it is so that others won't be damaged by this . More importantly to maintain the integrity of the church that belongs not to us but Christ .
Blessings
Bill

Good post. There is no true Christ being preached by any in that video. To defend that is to defend darkness.

Miri · May 13, 2017

Sorry I haven't read all of this thread, just skimmed through it.

I wanted to say that when the Holy Spirit comes down on a person, or a
group of people, each person will react differently, He deals with each person
where they are at. Depending what's going on with them etc.

Ive been in church services where the Holy Spirit has filled the place.
Never have I seen everyone react in the same way as portrayed on the
video.

I've also seen false mimicry where people get carried away and start to
do what others are doing. Why that happens I don't know I think that is
more to do with psychology. You know where a smile or a yawn are infectious.
Or maybe people don't want to feel left out.

I will say that when the Holy Spirit chooses to fill you, over shadow you,
whatever you want to call it. There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that it
is real. The feeling doesn't come from the mind, it is something you feel in your
stomach like waves. That's why you may see some people almost doubled
over or rocking forward.

There are times you feel you can barely stand it's so powerful, I've been on my knees.
Others do fall over.

But there again at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow. People think that will
only happen when you meet Him face to face in eternity. But those verses are just
as relevant in the here and now.

I've seen times the entire church has fallen completely silent as the waves of the
Holy Spirit roll over the entire congregation so that you could hear a pin drop. Then
a person sobbing here or there as deep wounds are healed, love is poured out etc.

I know a few people who burst out laughing, though not everyone does.
One person was hurting and needed joy in her life, the joy of the Lord - she got a
triple dose of it!

Ive seen people reduced to a crumpled mess on the floor sobbing their heart out
while the Holy Spirit works on whatever needs to be worked on.

I would be very sceptical at videos which show everyone acting manic.
The Holy Spirit deals with individuals on an individual level, even within groups.

To people who are sceptical about any manifestation of the Holy Spirit at all,
boy are you in for a surprise some day.

mailmandan · May 13, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

The famous scripture that is used from those who believe we lose salvation is 1 Tim. 4:1 - but let's look and see what it is really saying "in context".

They usually love to just quote the part about seducing spirits and doctrines of devils ( which they usually apply to something they don't believe in but some one else might ).

Let's see what Paul was actually saying "departing from the faith actually is".

1 Timothy 4:1-5 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away ( apostesontai - this is the word - apostasy ) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

[SUP]3 [/SUP] men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;

[SUP]5 [/SUP] for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

What is going to cause this "falling away" ( apostasy )...people who forbid others to marry...and not to eat certain foods...why is this departing from the faith?...it's in verse 3, 4 and 5.

verse 3 = which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. It's in knowing who you are in Christ - who is the truth and the faith....this not marrying and not eating certain foods to keep yourself "separated" from others is a form of self-effort and reliance on a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset.

This is "departing from the faith - apostasy"....... people creating their own righteousness/holiness through their works of the flesh by self-effort when we are to believe on Christ's work on the cross and resurrection for all things.

It has the "appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life.

.. man-made religion denying the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

So we see that the word "apostasy" is not what some try to make it into. The seducing spirits and doctrines of devils is clearly defined by Paul.

There are many warnings in scripture about living your own ways and thoughts contrary to God such as depending on the flesh for life instead of walking by the spirit and they should be heeded if you want His life to be manifested in us.

Let's build believers up in Christ and feed them the proper nutrients of proclaiming the love and grace of our Lord for them and these will give them the proper foundation in Christ and then the warnings will be applied in context of Christ's finished work on the cross and not on a works-based, fear-based belief system which only nullifies the very grace of God needed for us to live in this earth.

Amen! The words "the faith" (Gr. tês pisteôs) in this context means the apostolic faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines. It doesn't mean that some will fall away from saving faith in Christ. These, who are in a state of professing adherence to the Christian faith, who nevertheless will in both doctrine and practice fall away from it, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.

I believe the beginning of such a major departing from the apostolic faith was evidenced as the Roman Catholic church began to come into existence in the early 4th century. The RCC imposes on its clergy that they be unmarried (vs. 3). This same professing body has many demonic doctrines such as transubstantiation, indulgences, purgatory, papal infallibility, Mary's perpetual virginity etc..

Grace777x70 · May 13, 2017

mailmandan said:

All works -based - self-righteousness belief systems are not in "obedience to the faith".

The reality is people can be going to church every time the doors are open, praying 5 hours a day, read their bibles 3 hours every day, witness to every thing that moves, be pastoring a church for 30 years, read the scriptures in Greek and Hebrew, live good moral lives and still be "fallen away" from the faith.

The "fallen away" which is the Greek word [FONT="Gentium" !important]aphistēmi [/FONT]really means to "with draw from, depart from, abstain from

People "fall away from the faith" when they rely on what they do or don't do for life and righteousness instead of relying on what Christ has already done.

This is what the seducing spirits and doctrines of devils are as clearly seen in 1 Tim. 4:1-5. It is the delusion that we can by our own works of righteousness be acceptable to God and be righteous. The church is full of this anti-Christ belief in all denominations.

MessageOfTheCross · May 13, 2017

Jesus warns us that there will be massive religious deception in His Name. Many Churches are bringing the world into the Church. When King David had his men set the "Ark of God" upon a new cart, God was displeased. David used the same method the Philistines used of transporting the "Ark of God (David borrowed an idea from the Philistines)." The Philistines represent the world. God smote Uzzah. 2 Sam. 6

It is imperative that the church no longer halt between two opinions. God demands that everything must be done by the Spirit and not of the flesh. No man can come in the presence of God in his own strength and ability. He is Holy.

Because[SUP][a][/SUP] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. Matthew 7:14 NKJV

Remember, If it doesn't Glorify God, it must be casted out. CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,...Galatians 4:30

Faith works in the heart and not in the mind.

The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)

Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!

The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

Anything and everything that is borrowed from the world is a new cart.

samuel23 · May 13, 2017

Hi Miri: There does not have to be physical manifestations in a church meeting for the Spirit of God to be working. I have seen just about all of it. Baptist folks that sit like stone and charismatic folks who bring the house down. When I look back on it all, it seems to me that the Baptist folks seem to walk a more spiritual life then the charismatics. You do not have to scream in church and fall into a sobbing mess on the floor for God to deal with you, most of the times God has really worked with me I was not even in a church. The idea that because there are lots of physical manifestations in one church and not in another church does not mean that God is working in the one church and not in the other, it just means that one church likes to be emotional and let it all out, while the other church does not, actually self control is a fruit of the Spirit. I was a Baptist for years, maybe I expected more from the charismatics when I joined them because they were all so in touch with the Spirit(so I thought). I found that most of the charismatics had sin problems that did not seem to affect the Baptist, I now believe it is because many of them were yielding themselves to spirits not of God...BUT THEY THINK IT IS GOD. I do believe there is danger in most Pentecostal churches because the movement of false spirit is often times attributed to a move of God and that is because the folks will not honestly check out the scriptures and I believe that is because they are having too good a time with the false spirit that they do not want to consider that it could be false and not God.

Rockrz · May 13, 2017

Except when the Lord said He that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks mysteries unto God

1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

This is personal tongues for your private prayer closet for edification

Those that believe tongues are always a known language do err having been taught this by religious people who have had satan whisper in their ear that tongues is not for us today and/or it's a known language only like on the Day of Pentecost

There is different kinds of tongues other than what we see in Acts chapter 2.

satan cannot understand it when the Holy Spirit prays the will of God thru us... so he seeks to do anything to stop tongues.

One does not have to pray in tongues if you don't mind not having the benefit of the Holy Spirit Himself praying the will of God thru you and you don't mind satan hearing and knowing everything you are saying to the Lord which gives him ample opportunity to counter what you are doing cause you are calling an audible he hears qand understands... you're letting him see the playbook which is not very smart.

Romans 8:26,27
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit Himself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Teaching against praying in the Holy Ghost is an example of people getting in the ditch on the opposite side of extreme charismatics into believing we are poorly shod, broken down sinners living a defeated life and maybe someday we'll get to go to Heaven but until then the devil has us on the run and is keeping us down as though this were God's will.

There are lies of the devil in the ditch on both sides!

Yes, and bethel church leads people into a relationship with the imposter father... the god of this world playing like he is the real God.

Miri · May 13, 2017

samuel23 said:

Agreed that it doesn't have to happen in church.
Agreed that for some people and times they will be completely still before God.
This was the point I was making, it's not all and everyone doing the same thing.
The Holy Spirit deals with different people and different personalities in different
ways.

Which is why I am skeptical about the footage shown in the video.
I go to a Pentecostal church by the way, but I don't consider myself to be
affiliated solely with that denomination. I will happily go to any bible
beliving church. The Holy Spirit is not limited to denominations either.

As for the let it all out bit, I've seen reserved people on the Pentecostal church
and Yes sir Amen, Hallelujah people in methodist churches etc.
That is more to do with individual personalities than anything.

I think we are in agreement.

Just a general observation (tell me if I have this wrong). I get the impression
denominations are more strictly adhered to and are more meaningful in the US,
than some other countries.

In the Uk where I live, in a large city. The Christian church's of all denominations
regularly come together and work together. We have 24 hour prayer days.
Seminars, teen challange work, food banks, youth work, beech missions, street angels,
prison work and much more.
All supported and staffed by various denominations.
Penticostal, Methodist, baptist, Church of England, independant evangelical churches etc

So the denomination thingy over here doesn't really mean a great deal. If anything it's
probably just a way of explaining how different churches do worship. But with modern
music and instrument, even that is no longer as defined as it was.

My church runs a bible school which is basically covers the first year of your typical
bible college. People from all the other churches and denominations sign up for it.
So the lack of knowledge sacrificed for emotion and feeling doesn't come into for us.

Rockrz · May 13, 2017

Well, we do like to get out of church a little early... so we can beat the Baptists to the buffet line!

Miri · May 13, 2017

Rockrz said:

You almost persuade me to try your church.

Rockrz · May 13, 2017

Oh, we throw mashed tators and shoot spit wads at them too!

Nah, jus kidding of course...

Stephen63 · May 14, 2017

kaylagrl said:

This hits a nerve for me,perhaps I shouldn't comment at all. But I feel I should warn people. Not only did I see this in my travels but I experienced this first hand when I lived in Canada. The "Toronto Blessing" came to my church. The pastor there was whole hog for it. Of course its a way to generate excitement in church. And it did.People came from miles around. I cant tell you the things I saw. There was "being drunk" as in the video where they fell all over you and on to the floor. Then there was "laughing in the spirit" so mix those together.Then there was "birthing in the spirit" where they would lay on the floor and act like they were birthing a baby. The pastor who I knew all my life,encouraged all of this. We didn't get the gold in the teeth,feathers from the rafters but we got a good dose. We were gonna have us a super church. Big shiny one like in the States. I knew that was the motivation.I sang in front of this crowd and if you've ever seen the movie "Jumangi" that would about explain it. One side of the church looked like they had lost their flippin minds and the other side,my side,sat in stunned silence looking at the mayhem taking over the church. It looked quite funny,looking down at the two sides. Funny except for the fact that my aunt had taken stomach cancer,she had to have her stomach removed and then another sweet sister in the church took cancer at the same time. So while the church was trying to pray and believe as my aunt fell more ill this nonsense swirled on around us. My aunt fell more and more ill and she was at the point of deaths door.And every Sunday we had to face a literal zoo of people falling on top of each other,line dancing,birthing while my aunt was dying.She died at the age of 43. While these morons were laughing their brains out and dancing like we were in a nightclub getting their blessings my aunt was dying and another saint struggled for her life. There were no prayers,encouragement just one big ol' party every Sunday. One lady said laughing her butt of that she "wasn't even saved" To say we were outraged is an understatement.Please dont tell me these buffoons are in the "spirit" trust me,they are not!! That pastor left,we helped him along,and all the "spirit" left with him. He went to a church on another part of the country and every one of these people left. None of them stayed.I wonder why? As someone who has faced this foolishness,this "spirit" is not from the Lord. Not even close.When you are so out of your head that you scare Pentecostals there's somethin wrong with you!!

IMO this is done purposely to one way or another destroy the church.
1. All these people "arrive" to purposely change the worship & quench the true Spirit in the church. They may not know themselves what's going on, but the evil spirit that leads them does. When they have a "majority", they vote in permanent changes to the church, taking it over.

2. If they don't get a majority & take it over, then they'll all leave at once while criticizing & condemning the church in the public sector.

Either way, they will try to destroy it.

kaylagirl, Is this what they did in your church? I would like to get a confirm on this if it is the way they did it or not.

Stephen63 · May 14, 2017

ForthAngel said:

Uuummm..... no. This did not come from the Pentecostal Movement, it came from the charismatic movement, which, BTW, has nothing to do with the Pentecostal movement. The Pentecostal movement has its troubles with WOF & the Prosperity doctrine, which infiltrated thru the televangelists.

I do agree though that they have problems with tongues because I grew up in it & saw it firsthand.

Don't feel bad about your statement though, for many believe the two are related, & folks have been taught that on purpose to destroy the reputation of the Pentecostal Movement.

John MacArthur does this in his strange fire teachings. He has already prejudged all Pentecostals as "not of God".

Stephen63 · May 14, 2017

preacher4truth said:

Any person who defends the teachings in the OP video needs to be marked as one who walks contrary to true doctrine as per Scripture.

All false teachers and their proponents know how to twist Scripture and deceive those who are not sound in the faith. They come as wolves in sheep's clothing, talking of love, unity, tolerance and acceptance.

This is only one way I know someone is a false teacher; they try super hard to appear as a sheep and convince others of their love and unity is one way of doing it.

I agree. We have one such in here, & his name starts with a "G".

DiscipleDave · May 14, 2017

A seducing spirit is a spirit that will try to get you to believe something that is contrary to a verse in Scriptures. They will use several verses that supports the doctrine they are trying to get you to believe, and steer you away from the verse which plainly teaches it is not True.

A doctrine of devils, is any doctrine that is contrary to the Word of God. If you believe something that contradicts even one verse in Scriptures, then what you believe is a doctrine of devils.

For example, it is written if you believe in Jesus you are Saved. Many believe this verse ONLY all the while ignoring all the other verses which plainly teach what ELSE it takes to be Saved. They believe the one verse and ignore or make void, or interpret away all the other verses, such as the verse that says you must repent, you must be baptized, you must confess, you must call upon His Name, and endure to the end. All these things a person must do to be SAVED according to the Word of God, but there are those who believe in doing one or two of those things and NOT the others.

It is only when what you believe does not contradict even one verse in Scriptures before you are remotely close to the TRUTH. Those who believe a thing, and that thing contradicts one Scriptures, that thing is from the devil, even though some verses seem to support that belief. satan ALWAYS mixes part truths and Scriptures in his false doctrines, how else is he going to get Christians to believe his doctrines? he has to mix some verses in with his doctrine to make it acceptable to Christians to accept. But as i have said repeatedly on CC, and nobody can claim ignorance, is you can tell what is a false doctrine from the devil, if what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures it is indeed a FALSE DOCTRINE from the devil himself. Those who choose to believe one or two or even 10 verses all the while ignoring, making void, or interpreting away that one verse that teaches that belief to be wrong, believes in a false doctrine from satan and not from God.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave.com

Stephen63 · May 14, 2017

SovereignGrace said:

It doesn't take much to do that after allowing many others to do it in the BDF.

Naturally, it's just taking the next step.

Stephen63 · May 14, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Of course you thought of that..... it's all you think about.....

Grace777x70 · May 14, 2017

Malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ are in the same lists as those that live a homosexual lifestyle. These are all works of the flesh and they are no different.

Seducing spirits and doctrines of demons?

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