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K
eh... I understand that sentence, I am asking what comments 
"Their [the Jews] rotten and unbending stiffneckedness deserves that they be oppressed unendingly and without measure or end and that they die in their misery without the pity of anyone.
Thats quite a comment...
So, Calvin made some nasty comments about the Jews. Well, first things first, lets put aside the mysticism that somehow these are God loving, holy, and on their way to heaven "because they are Jews." Unless they are in Christ they are as lost as all other mankind, Romans 3:9.
Also, God spoke ill toward the Jews, and rightly so, over and again in Scripture, for their idolatry, apostasy, sin, stiff-neckededness, iniquities, rebellion, witchcraft, blasphemy, spiritual whoredom, blindness, apathy. And He used men we call OT prophets to do it. So, that being said Calvin is not off track here. Some people need to read their Bibles a lot more.
Also, God spoke ill toward the Jews, and rightly so, over and again in Scripture, for their idolatry, apostasy, sin, stiff-neckededness, iniquities, rebellion, witchcraft, blasphemy, spiritual whoredom, blindness, apathy. And He used men we call OT prophets to do it. So, that being said Calvin is not off track here. Some people need to read their Bibles a lot more.
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K
Well that posted before I was finished.He also said...
Calvin is also quoted as calling Jews “profane dogs” who “under the pretext of prophecy, stupidly devour all the riches of the earth with their unrestrained cupidity.”
and...
“I have had much conversation with many Jews: I have never seen either a drop of piety or a grain of truth or ingenuousness – nay, I have never found common sense in any Jew.”
Calvin is also quoted as calling Jews “profane dogs” who “under the pretext of prophecy, stupidly devour all the riches of the earth with their unrestrained cupidity.”
and...
“I have had much conversation with many Jews: I have never seen either a drop of piety or a grain of truth or ingenuousness – nay, I have never found common sense in any Jew.”
K
Quote "So, Calvin made some nasty comments about the Jews. Well, first things first, lets put aside the mysticism that somehow these are God loving, holy, and on their way to heaven "because they are Jews." Unless they are in Christ they are as lost as all other mankind, Romans 3:9."
I posted more comments. I was unable to edit the post.Please answer when you've read them all.
K
Quote "Read the Bible?"
Nope never.
Calvin is also quoted as calling Jews “profane dogs” who “under the pretext of prophecy, stupidly devour all the riches of the earth with their unrestrained cupidity.”
and...
“I have had much conversation with many Jews: I have never seen either a drop of piety or a grain of truth or ingenuousness – nay, I have never found common sense in any Jew.”
And you have no issue defending these comments?!
D
I know I'm not supposed to, but I still believe in double-predestination. If God elected some, by default, he didn't elect the others. None of us deserve it. I get that much, but choosing which ones he would save is also choosing which ones he will not save.
I don't see a way around that, and no one has said the right words to convince me there is a way around that.
I don't see a way around that, and no one has said the right words to convince me there is a way around that.
[h=1]Romans 11 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT="]11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.[/FONT]
[FONT="]2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,[/FONT]
[FONT="]3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.[/FONT]
[FONT="]4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.[/FONT]
[FONT="]9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:[/FONT]
[FONT="]21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.[/FONT]
[FONT="]22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.[/FONT]
[FONT="]23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.[/FONT]
[FONT="]24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?[/FONT]
[FONT="]25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.[/FONT]
[FONT="]26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:[/FONT]
[FONT="]27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.[/FONT]
[FONT="]28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.[/FONT]
[FONT="]29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.[/FONT]
[FONT="]30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:[/FONT]
[FONT="]31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.[/FONT]
[FONT="]32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.[/FONT]
[FONT="]33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out![/FONT]
[FONT="]34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?[/FONT]
[FONT="]35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?[/FONT]
[FONT="]36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.[/FONT]
[FONT="]2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,[/FONT]
[FONT="]3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.[/FONT]
[FONT="]4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
unto this day.[/FONT][FONT="]9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:[/FONT]
[FONT="]21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.[/FONT]
[FONT="]22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.[/FONT]
[FONT="]23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.[/FONT]
[FONT="]24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?[/FONT]
[FONT="]25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.[/FONT]
[FONT="]26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:[/FONT]
[FONT="]27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.[/FONT]
[FONT="]28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.[/FONT]
[FONT="]29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.[/FONT]
[FONT="]30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:[/FONT]
[FONT="]31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.[/FONT]
[FONT="]32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.[/FONT]
[FONT="]33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out![/FONT]
[FONT="]34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?[/FONT]
[FONT="]35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?[/FONT]
[FONT="]36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.[/FONT]
[h=1]Romans 11 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]11 [/B][/FONT]I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]3 [/B][/FONT]Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]5 [/B][/FONT]Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]7 [/B][/FONT]What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]9 [/B][/FONT]And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]11 [/B][/FONT]I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]13 [/B][/FONT]For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]15 [/B][/FONT]For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]17 [/B][/FONT]And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]19 [/B][/FONT]Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]21 [/B][/FONT]For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]23 [/B][/FONT]And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]25 [/B][/FONT]For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]27 [/B][/FONT]For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]29 [/B][/FONT]For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]31 [/B][/FONT]Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]33 [/B][/FONT]O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out![/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]35 [/B][/FONT]Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.[/FONT]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]3 [/B][/FONT]Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]5 [/B][/FONT]Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]7 [/B][/FONT]What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
unto this day.[/FONT][FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]9 [/B][/FONT]And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]11 [/B][/FONT]I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]13 [/B][/FONT]For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]15 [/B][/FONT]For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]17 [/B][/FONT]And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]19 [/B][/FONT]Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]21 [/B][/FONT]For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]23 [/B][/FONT]And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]25 [/B][/FONT]For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]27 [/B][/FONT]For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]29 [/B][/FONT]For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]31 [/B][/FONT]Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]33 [/B][/FONT]O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out![/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]35 [/B][/FONT]Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000][FONT="]36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.[/FONT]
“The Jews, who have both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins always: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.”
1st Thessalonians 2:14-6
We must not cherry pick verses we like and ignore the rest. It happens so frequently here on CC...
K
Romans 11 King James Version (KJV)
11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
unto this day.9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Thanks brother,I was headed for this very excerpt of Scripture. And now the thread is about to get nasty. I had thought the majority here said they either did not hold to Calvin nor read him.Now Im about to get stoned for criticizing what he said.