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K
since you so kindly offered, i will try again. 
you just posted a bunch of verses from Romans 3 that show man's inability and unwillingness to come to Christ.
do you remember Tribesman? (i do miss him so) he once told me that the statements like "choose you this day" and "as for me and my house" etc. were spoken by people already in covenant with God.
he said that had the ability to make such choices because God had already placed them in covenant with Him.
you just posted a bunch of verses from Romans 3 that show man's inability and unwillingness to come to Christ.
do you remember Tribesman? (i do miss him so) he once told me that the statements like "choose you this day" and "as for me and my house" etc. were spoken by people already in covenant with God.
he said that had the ability to make such choices because God had already placed them in covenant with Him.
Please read the post I made on Romans, I think it is one page back? I remember tribesman,I think, and hes not right. For instance when Jesus told the disciples to go into all the world and preach repent for the kingdom is at hand,clearly he wasn't speaking of people already in covenant with Him.
K
Ouch! Too steep for my blood!
Am I understanding Lordship salvation as someone who goes to the alter,gets saved,walks away unchanged and later comes back to the Lord later in life? Then they are saying they made God Lord of their life the second time? I wont say more until Im sure what you are talking about and if this is correct.
A
since you so kindly offered, i will try again.
you just posted a bunch of verses from Romans 3 that show man's inability and unwillingness to come to Christ.
do you remember Tribesman? (i do miss him so) he once told me that the statements like "choose you this day" and "as for me and my house" etc. were spoken by people already in covenant with God.
he said that had the ability to make such choices because God had already placed them in covenant with Him.
you just posted a bunch of verses from Romans 3 that show man's inability and unwillingness to come to Christ.
do you remember Tribesman? (i do miss him so) he once told me that the statements like "choose you this day" and "as for me and my house" etc. were spoken by people already in covenant with God.
he said that had the ability to make such choices because God had already placed them in covenant with Him.
A
Before judgement day all will have heard the gospel.
Revelation 14:6 ►
New International Version
Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth--to every nation, tribe, language and people.
New Living Translation
And I saw another angel flying through the sky, carrying the eternal Good News to proclaim to the people who belong to this world--to every nation, tribe, language, and people.
English Standard Version
Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people.
Berean Study Bible
Then I saw another angel flying overhead, with the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on the earth--to every nation and tribe and tongue and people.
Berean Literal Bible
And I saw another angel flying in mid-heaven, having the everlasting glad tidings to preach upon those dwelling on the earth, and upon every nation and tribe and tongue and people,
New American Standard Bible
And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
King James Bible
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Revelation 14:6 ►
New International Version
Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth--to every nation, tribe, language and people.
New Living Translation
And I saw another angel flying through the sky, carrying the eternal Good News to proclaim to the people who belong to this world--to every nation, tribe, language, and people.
English Standard Version
Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people.
Berean Study Bible
Then I saw another angel flying overhead, with the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on the earth--to every nation and tribe and tongue and people.
Berean Literal Bible
And I saw another angel flying in mid-heaven, having the everlasting glad tidings to preach upon those dwelling on the earth, and upon every nation and tribe and tongue and people,
New American Standard Bible
And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
King James Bible
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Here's the difference between the two camps.
Calvinism's
Unconditional Election
Calvinism teaches total depravity to the point where man cannot choose God. God has to cause the new birth before man can respond to God to be saved. So God does everything. His will is not free because he's in bondage to his evil nature. The Spirit doesn't assist the person, the Spirit has to regenerate the sinner. In other words they are born again before they could ever possibly cry out to God for help. Faith is God's gift to the sinner.
Arminian's
Conditional Election
Arminianism teaches that although man is depraved, he's not totally depraved that he can't respond to God. God gives them grace to be able to respond to the gospel through faith of their own free will. The free will of man is not in bondage to the evil nature to the point that they can't respond to God's call. And that free will determines if they will be saved or damned. Man's will is not enslaved to his sinful nature - by God's grace He's able to choose for himself if he'll be saved or not. And once man hears the gospel and responds in faith, he is at that time born of the Spirit. Faith is our gift to God as we cooperate with Him in the gift of His grace that enables us to be born again.
Calvinsim's
Limited Atonement
God chooses of His own sovereign will without it being based on any foreseen response to faith or repentance. He only gives faith and repentance to those that He selects. It ends up that He has no condition for salvation other than the fact that they are chosen by Him for no reason of desire or willingness, it's not conditioned on the faith of the believer because it's based on God choice and not mans. If a person has faith it's after being born again, not beforehand. If they have repentance, it's after they're born again, not beforehand. So if they choose, it's after God has given them the new birth, not before.
Arminian's
General Atonement
Jesus died for everyone, but only those who believe in Him are saved. God pardons every sinner based on belief. They must have faith for the redemption of Jesus to become effective. When they believe, they are born again at that moment. For it's by grace through faith. They believe, they've been convicted, therefore they have faith in the truth of the gospel and respond with repentance.
Calvinism's
Irresistible Grace
Calvinists have a special inward call that can't be resisted. Because they believe God has pre chosen certain people, if they are one of those then they can't reject it. They can't because God causes them to be born again in a moment of His choosing. Man does not cooperate with the Spirit at the time of his being born again. The Spirit causes him to cooperate in the new birth - He causes them to repent and believe.
Arminian's
The Holy Spirit can be Resisted
The Spirit calls mankind through the gospel invitation. He does all He can to bring sinners to salvation. But because man is free to choose, he can resist the Spirit's call. The Holy Spirit does not regenerate the sinner without faith which is man's response to the Holy Spirit's calling. Man must respond by faith before the Spirit can give life.
Calvinism's
Perseverance
Because God has done the work in man, He can not loose His salvation. It can't be lost.
Arminian's
Falling from Grace
Because man responds to God by faith, if he loses faith in God, his salvation can be lost. But many are divided on this. Some believe that once born again, you can't lose salvation.
A
I shortened it but you can read the fill article or book yourself.
https://www.gty.org/library/articles/A114/an-introduction-to-lordship-salvation
First, Scripture teaches that the gospel calls sinners to faith joined in oneness with repentance (Acts 2:38; 17:30; 20:21; 2 Peter 3:9)
Second, Scripture teaches that salvation is all God's work.
Third, Scripture teaches that the object of faith is Christ Himself, not a creed or a promise (John 3:16).
Fourth, Scripture teaches that real faith inevitably produces a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17).
Fifth, Scripture teaches that God's gift of eternal life includes all that pertains to life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3; Romans 8:32
Sixth, Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all, and the faith He demands involves unconditional surrender (Romans 6:17-18; 10:9-10)
Seventh, Scripture teaches that those who truly believe will love Christ (1 Peter 1:8-9; Romans 8:28-30; 1 Corinthians 16:22).
Eighth, Scripture teaches that behavior is an important test of faith. Obedience is evidence that one's faith is real (1 John 2:3).
Ninth, Scripture teaches that genuine believers may stumble and fall, but they will persevere in the faith (1 Corinthians 1:8)
https://www.gty.org/library/articles/A114/an-introduction-to-lordship-salvation
First, Scripture teaches that the gospel calls sinners to faith joined in oneness with repentance (Acts 2:38; 17:30; 20:21; 2 Peter 3:9)
Second, Scripture teaches that salvation is all God's work.
Third, Scripture teaches that the object of faith is Christ Himself, not a creed or a promise (John 3:16).
Fourth, Scripture teaches that real faith inevitably produces a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17).
Fifth, Scripture teaches that God's gift of eternal life includes all that pertains to life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3; Romans 8:32
Sixth, Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all, and the faith He demands involves unconditional surrender (Romans 6:17-18; 10:9-10)
Seventh, Scripture teaches that those who truly believe will love Christ (1 Peter 1:8-9; Romans 8:28-30; 1 Corinthians 16:22).
Eighth, Scripture teaches that behavior is an important test of faith. Obedience is evidence that one's faith is real (1 John 2:3).
Ninth, Scripture teaches that genuine believers may stumble and fall, but they will persevere in the faith (1 Corinthians 1:8)
God looked at His creation and called it good. Adam made in the image and likeness of God was without sin. Adam was not deceived like Eve but made a choice to be with Eve over God. Both Adam and Eve heard Gods word by direct revelation and chose to disobey it. Eve yielded to temptation but Adam chose to join her.
Forced to leave the garden because if they ate of the tree of life they would have lived forever in their fallen state and been eternally at enmity with God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Forced to leave the garden because if they ate of the tree of life they would have lived forever in their fallen state and been eternally at enmity with God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Before the fall there was no inclination to sin only the ability to choose. Adam and Eve had no conception of sin and no conception of death. Death and sin did not exist until the fall. All of creation was perfect until sin corrupted the world. God said even the ground was cursed because of Adams sin.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Well I think it unwise to condemn all others simply on the basis that they do not ascribe to the exact doctrinal views. There are many parts in the body. Unity does not make uniformity. Of course some profess falsely but that does not mean all profess falsely.
Even Paul remarked that some preach Christ out of contempt but the consolation is that Christ is preached. God is able to use His word even if the preacher doesn't believe what he is preaching. Do not underestimate the power of Gods word and the Holy Spirit to save men from their sins.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Well I think it unwise to condemn all others simply on the basis that they do not ascribe to the exact doctrinal views. There are many parts in the body. Unity does not make uniformity. Of course some profess falsely but that does not mean all profess falsely.
Even Paul remarked that some preach Christ out of contempt but the consolation is that Christ is preached. God is able to use His word even if the preacher doesn't believe what he is preaching. Do not underestimate the power of Gods word and the Holy Spirit to save men from their sins.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
K
Once again...
The Bible says that “God saw every thing that he had made, and behold, it was very good” (Gn 1:31). Never is it said, however, that Adam and Eve were perfect. That word is applied to man, but never to mean without sin. To Abraham God said, “...walk before me, and be thou perfect” (Gn 17:1); of Job it is said “...that man was perfect and upright” (Job:1:1
); Jesus commanded, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect” (Mt 5:48); Paul says that Scripture is given “that the man of God may be perfect” (2 Tm 3:17); etc. The meaning is maturity and a heart that desires to please God and do His will—but not without the possibility to sin. The Bible clearly says, “For there is not a just man upon the earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not” (Eccl 7:20), and “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Rom:3:23
). Sin is coming short of the glory of God, in whose image Adam and Eve were created. Only God is perfect in the full sense of being without the possibility of sinning. Thus Jesus said, “...there is none good but one, that is, God” (Mt 19:17).
Adam and Eve must have been created with the power of choice, or God would not have given them a command and punished them for disobeying it. No one, not even Eve who was deceived by Satan, Judas of whom it is said that “Satan entered into him” (Jn:13:27
), or Ananias and Sapphira whose hearts “Satan filled...to lie to the Holy Ghost” (Acts:5:3
) can blame his or her sin on the devil; nor does God ever tempt man to sin (Jas 1:13), much less cause anyone to sin. All are without excuse.
If Adam and Eve were forced (or even tricked) into doing something against their will, they could hardly be held accountable, nor could that act be called sin. It makes even less sense that God would have caused them to sin. Thus God would be the author of evil and we would have the contradiction of God telling them not to eat of the tree, causing them to do so, then punishing them for disobeying Him—a thought repugnant to human conscience and logic.
The difference between Adam and Eve and all of their offspring is a simple one: the former were created by God in a state of innocence and intimate fellowship with Him. No doubt the Spirit of God dwelt within their spirits in close communion. When they sinned, the Spirit of God departed, bringing immediate spiritual death, which affected their bodies and eventually brought physical death. As the children of Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel could only be born into the state of sin, separation and death that had become the condition of their parents. And so it is with all of us.
https://www.thebereancall.org/conten...2002-q-and-a-3
The Bible says that “God saw every thing that he had made, and behold, it was very good” (Gn 1:31). Never is it said, however, that Adam and Eve were perfect. That word is applied to man, but never to mean without sin. To Abraham God said, “...walk before me, and be thou perfect” (Gn 17:1); of Job it is said “...that man was perfect and upright” (Job:1:1
); Jesus commanded, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect” (Mt 5:48); Paul says that Scripture is given “that the man of God may be perfect” (2 Tm 3:17); etc. The meaning is maturity and a heart that desires to please God and do His will—but not without the possibility to sin. The Bible clearly says, “For there is not a just man upon the earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not” (Eccl 7:20), and “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Rom:3:23
). Sin is coming short of the glory of God, in whose image Adam and Eve were created. Only God is perfect in the full sense of being without the possibility of sinning. Thus Jesus said, “...there is none good but one, that is, God” (Mt 19:17).
Adam and Eve must have been created with the power of choice, or God would not have given them a command and punished them for disobeying it. No one, not even Eve who was deceived by Satan, Judas of whom it is said that “Satan entered into him” (Jn:13:27
), or Ananias and Sapphira whose hearts “Satan filled...to lie to the Holy Ghost” (Acts:5:3
) can blame his or her sin on the devil; nor does God ever tempt man to sin (Jas 1:13), much less cause anyone to sin. All are without excuse.
If Adam and Eve were forced (or even tricked) into doing something against their will, they could hardly be held accountable, nor could that act be called sin. It makes even less sense that God would have caused them to sin. Thus God would be the author of evil and we would have the contradiction of God telling them not to eat of the tree, causing them to do so, then punishing them for disobeying Him—a thought repugnant to human conscience and logic.
The difference between Adam and Eve and all of their offspring is a simple one: the former were created by God in a state of innocence and intimate fellowship with Him. No doubt the Spirit of God dwelt within their spirits in close communion. When they sinned, the Spirit of God departed, bringing immediate spiritual death, which affected their bodies and eventually brought physical death. As the children of Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel could only be born into the state of sin, separation and death that had become the condition of their parents. And so it is with all of us.
https://www.thebereancall.org/conten...2002-q-and-a-3
