Veganism: Moral Superiority?

[Billyd]

Hello Billy Long before Moses, Noah knew which animals were clean and unclean.

You are correct, but God didn't identify the actual list and make eating the unclean animals a sin until the time of Moses. I think that He probably shortened man's unclean list a bit at that time.

 

[stonesoffire]

Why??? Who wants to open the door to the devil to start tempting one's self to consider other religions and satan muddies the waters leading the masses into the ecumenical movement where everyone believes we all serve the same god and there are many ways unto salvation?

Why not just start off with and stay with the truth in God's Word that Jesus is the only Way unto Salvation and all else is garbage???







God never changes, so if He "released" that after the flood then it was His plan all along.

Jesus ate fish, so we know eating animals is not a sin.

Plus... did anyone post this yet???

1 Timothy 4:14
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:






Got scripture for that?





I went out and checked... none of the trees in my yard have any meat on them...

Well, rock, if you posted back to me...then I am checking to see if you wrote from heaven or earth? I would say earth.

Perhaps my trees around my mansion will have steaks? We cannot imagine what the Lord has in store...right?

 

[stonesoffire]

Theistic evolutionists are "self professed Christians" that generally believe

1. That God used evolution to create and make the earth and animals and mankind

2. That God created evolution to create and make the earth and animals and mankind

3. That God stood by and watched evolution take place.

4. Some but not all, also believe in something called the GAP Theory

Many deny young earth theories or that that the earth and everything in it and animals and humans were created in years not 6 literal days. Many will tell you the solar systems and other things are billions of years old.

Secular humanists are usually Atheists, that may or may not agree with Evolution.

Ok, thanks.

I don't believe the earth was recreated by evolution but agree with the 6 days...but then again...a day in the Lord can mean a thousand years. I don't try to find what is correct in this, doesn't matter.

However, I do agree with gap theory. And to me..it matters.

 

[stonesoffire]

You don't know me.

No, I don't. Why did you think it was directed at you? I said sometimes..

 

[Tommy379]

Wool makes nice clothes?

Then why not burn wool to God instead of fat?

 

[Galatea]

I think it is very important. Mosaic Law has a law of animal husbandry.

4 You shall not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.

And Solomon says the righteous, us, know how to treat animals well

Proverbs 12:10 The righteous know the needs of their animals,
but the mercy of the wicked is cruel.

I think it is important, and it does bother me wondering how the animals were treated before being slaughtered. The problem I have is I don't know which meats, eggs, and dairy products were raised using humane methods and which ones were raised using cruel methods. I know God did not mean for us to cause animals to live in miserable conditions before we kill them for our consumption.

It is like foreign produced goods. I know many things we buy are made in developing countries where people are horribly exploited and work in miserable conditions. The problem is, we don't know which goods are made in factories where people are well treated and which ones are made in exploitative factories.

 

[Magenta]

I think it is important, and it does bother me wondering how the animals were treated before being slaughtered. The problem I have is I don't know which meats, eggs, and dairy products were raised using humane methods and which ones were raised using cruel methods. I know God did not mean for us to cause animals to live in miserable conditions before we kill them for our consumption.

It is like foreign produced goods. I know many things we buy are made in developing countries where people are horribly exploited and work in miserable conditions. The problem is, we don't know which goods are made in factories where people are well treated and which ones are made in exploitative factories.

That is what certification boards and investigative reporters are for Then it becomes a matter of the informed consumer voting with their dollars...

 

[imfinallyfree]

Here is some food for thought.

God gave man all the seeds of the plants and fruits of the trees for food first. Also he gave them to the animals. The Bible says so. But. There are many plant seeds and fruits of trees that will, as my grandmother always put it, kill you dead as a door nail. Yet there are other animals that can eat the same seeds and fruits that will kill man without consequence. The Bible doesn't address this, but I suspect that after Eden, man figured it out rather quickly. The same thing probably happened with meat. The Bible tells us that Abel was a sheep farmer. That makes sense because God always required a blood sacrifice to cover sins. We also know that sheep are one of the few animals that depend totally on man for their survival. So it makes sense that God would select them for man to sacrifice. The Bible doesn't address meat again until the flood. It does tell us that there were clean and unclean animals. It doesn't tell us whether they were being eaten or not until after the flood. I suspect that it didn't take man long to figure out that lamb taste pretty good. We also know that there are many animals whose flesh is poisonous to man, yet other animals can eat it without harm. I suspect that it didn't take man long to discover the ones that man could eat (clean). God preserved the clean animals on the Ark for both food and sacrifice.

When God let Noah off the Ark, the gave him all the animals to eat. Again, the Bible first identifies the actual clean animals with Moses. Remember at that time God's people had been in bondage for 400 years and they ate what the Egyptians fed them, then they spent forty years eating manna and quail provided by God. It makes sense that God would identify the safe (clean) foods for them. It is here that God first identified the eating of unclean animals as a sin.

Enough said.

That's one of the strange things that I don't like about the Bible.

God asks for blood sacrifice?

I don't believe it, I think that some parts were slipped into the Bible that are satanic like that one.

It's not unheard of, I know some supposed christians who said that their Bible says nothing about incest or tyranny being bad.

That would mean that someone rewrote their Bible... it's counterfeit.

If that can happen now it could have happened at the writing of the original.

 

[Angela53510]

Food Science disagrees with you here and in spades. My wife was diagnosed with RA in both knees, the xrays showed it and everything. The medical doctors immediately started pharmaceutical therapies. They also wanted her to go to counseling to prepare her for sitting in a wheel chair the rest of her life. She took the info to our Chiropractor. He confirmed the RA and said it was very aggressive and would cripple her. He then told her not to eat any rices, grains, pasta, bread, flours, GMO based anything, certain dairy products, no more processed anything.

Only fresh veggies/ fruits, certain raw nuts and lean proteins, including copious amounts of humus and filtered water.
Her RA disappeared completely in 52 days, she lost over 45 lbs, and took off over 500lbs of pressure of her knees.

The medical doctors were stumped, expect for one dietician on her Dr's staff.

If I eat any kind of grain products I bloat up and my hands hurt. If I stay clear of them, I am fine.

Sorry, you are not talking about Rheumatoid Arthritis, if what you say is true. Rheumatoid Arthritis is a systemic disease, where the immune system attacks the body. It is osteo Arthritis that appears in single or several joints. In fact, osteo occurs in all vertebrates, it is a wear and tear syndrome, and 95% of all people get it by the age of 80, in a few joints.

You simply do not get Rheumatoid Disease in only 2 knees. That is osteo Arthritis!

I also have OA in every joint that the RA has attacked, over 100 joints. I consider it the least of my problems. Although it can be serious enough to need joint replacements.

Anyone that overweight would benefit from weight loss. And incidently, that is pretty much what I eat, your wife's diet. I was in a long term study of heart disease in people with RA. I was the only one in the study who had no plaque build up or heart disease. I talked to the head of the study, because she wanted to know what I was doing differently. I told her diet and exercise.

But, that diet does not cure my RA! I'm talking about Systemic Rheumatoid Disease, not wear and tear osteo!

 

[Corbinscam]

I raise cattle for the sole purpose of selling them for beef. We raise all of our meat. And I don't in any way feel morally inferior to a vegan. I've never abused my animals and I never will. I don't murder them out of hate.....I just like money and steak

Really though....I think you can tell a lot about a person by their treatment of animals but I also know good hearted awesome people who not only eat meat but they kill the animal first. And I know cold hearted vegans. It's about the intentions and the desires of the heart not what you actually eat.

 

[BenFTW]

I raise cattle for the sole purpose of selling them for beef. We raise all of our meat. And I don't in any way feel morally inferior to a vegan. I've never abused my animals and I never will. I don't murder them out of hate.....I just like money and steak

Really though....I think you can tell a lot about a person by their treatment of animals but I also know good hearted awesome people who not only eat meat but they kill the animal first. And I know cold hearted vegans. It's about the intentions and the desires of the heart not what you actually eat.

Not to mention at times it seems vegans often care for animals more than humans. They rejoice at the death of a human through a heart attack because they ate meat. They won't bat an eye saying it either. There was a vegan on Youtube who had their grandpa having a heart attack and the guy pulls out his camera to record it and post it on Youtube to show what eating meat leads to. Of course his relatives disapproved and he couldn't post the video, but thats how twisted some vegans can be, and heartless.

They are supposedly compassionate, and yet look at the vitriol they have of meat eaters. Had they love just maybe through meekness could they convince someone. However, their harshness puts up walls and no progress is made. In fact, the meat eater enjoys that bite of steak all the more as its his middle finger to the jerk harassing him.

 

[Tommy379]

Not to mention at times it seems vegans often care for animals more than humans. They rejoice at the death of a human through a heart attack because they ate meat. They won't bat an eye saying it either. There was a vegan on Youtube who had their grandpa having a heart attack and the guy pulls out his camera to record it and post it on Youtube to show what eating meat leads to. Of course his relatives disapproved and he couldn't post the video, but thats how twisted some vegans can be, and heartless.

They are supposedly compassionate, and yet look at the vitriol they have of meat eaters. Had they love just maybe through meekness could they convince someone. However, their harshness puts up walls and no progress is made. In fact, the meat eater enjoys that bite of steak all the more as its his middle finger to the jerk harassing him.

That's funny, cause meat doesn't cause heart attacks.

 

[Rockrz]

Not to mention at times it seems vegans often care for animals more than humans.

Yeah and they eat up all the animals food... whassup wit dat anyhow?

Is that anyway to treat the animals? They should be ashamed of they selfs

 

[Galatea]

That is what certification boards and investigative reporters are for Then it becomes a matter of the informed consumer voting with their dollars...

I think it might be very difficult, though- and extremely time consuming to try to research and find out which companies use ethical farms and which ones don't. It might be helpful for a group like PETA or the Humane Society to make a list for the average consumer. I know vegans and vegetarians might like for omnivores to forego meat- but that is not likely to happen. I think it would be a good way to protect animals to help consumers know if they are buying food from ethical farmers or not. Today I bought some Butterball ground turkey patties. I have no idea if the turkeys were well treated or not. I guess I can check out PETA's website and see if they have lists of ethical food companies or something.

 

[Tommy379]

I think it might be very difficult, though- and extremely time consuming to try to research and find out which companies use ethical farms and which ones don't. It might be helpful for a group like PETA or the Humane Society to make a list for the average consumer. I know vegans and vegetarians might like for omnivores to forego meat- but that is not likely to happen. I think it would be a good way to protect animals to help consumers know if they are buying food from ethical farmers or not. Today I bought some Butterball ground turkey patties. I have no idea if the turkeys were well treated or not. I guess I can check out PETA's website and see if they have lists of ethical food companies or something.

If a company deals in meat, PETA will never say they are ethical.

 

[Huckleberry]

Actually, when you look at a cow and at a lion, you can surely see a difference in their body constitution.
Because cow is made to eat "herbs" and lion is made to hunt, kill and process meat.

Did you use the examples of a cow and lion intentionally or ironically?

Isaiah 11
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

Isaiah 65
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

That's one of the strange things that I don't like about the Bible.
God asks for blood sacrifice?
I don't believe it.......

You lack understanding.
God doesn't delight in blood sacrifice anymore
than a parent delights in punishing his or her child.
God does not desire sacrifice.
However the blood sacrifice had an important purpose.
Imagine if you had a flock of sheep (or whatever) that you cared for, and whenever
you sinned you were required to select your best one and kill it to pay for the sin.
Unless you're a psychopath, that would be difficult and emotionally painful for you.
It might give you pause the next time you considered sinning.
Similarly, we are to examine ourselves when we partake of the Lord's supper.

 

[Rockrz]

I have no idea if the turkeys were well treated or not.

They came from a happy home where their mommy and daddy played with them and sent them to the best Turkey school so they could be smart Turkeys with good careers with health / dental / gym on site to keep themselves in good shape so when they retire and get butchered they make tasty Turkey patties!

 

[Magenta]

I think it might be very difficult, though- and extremely time consuming to try to research and find out which companies use ethical farms and which ones don't. It might be helpful for a group like PETA or the Humane Society to make a list for the average consumer. I know vegans and vegetarians might like for omnivores to forego meat- but that is not likely to happen. I think it would be a good way to protect animals to help consumers know if they are buying food from ethical farmers or not. Today I bought some Butterball ground turkey patties. I have no idea if the turkeys were well treated or not. I guess I can check out PETA's website and see if they have lists of ethical food companies or something.

Brand names command a good market share because they are trusted by consumers. The same happens with any product that builds good cred. Certain stores only carry certified organic, free range, non GMO, properly fed and cared for livestock, no medications like growth hormones (which for cows is prohibited here in Canada anyways) etc, and if you shop there, and do your homework for a time, you will over time come to know what you like and what you trust and what you are willing to pay for same as you did for whichever products you spend your money on now. Certainly shopping at a reputable store would help, because they do their own due diligence, and pass that knowledge onto us with their product lines and store made products. Whole Foods Market | America’s Healthiest Grocery Store

 

[Galatea]

Brand names command a good market share because they are trusted by consumers. The same happens with any product that builds good cred. Certain stores only carry certified organic, free range, non GMO, properly fed and cared for livestock, no medications like growth hormones (which for cows is prohibited here in Canada anyways) etc, and if you shop there, and do your homework for a time, you will over time come to know what you like and what you trust and what you are willing to pay for same as you did for whichever products you spend your money on now. Certainly shopping at a reputable store would help, because they do their own due diligence, and pass that knowledge onto us with their product lines and store made products. Whole Foods Market | America’s Healthiest Grocery Store

Thanks, I'll look into this. Believe it or not, this has been on my mind for a while. Near where we live, a farmer raises black angus cows in a pecan field. Free range beef. When I drive past the farm on my way to work, it makes me feel good to see them happy and content. So I have been thinking about where meat comes from and how it is raised, I just haven't done anything about it (which is probably a worse sin- thinking about something, yet not doing anything to change my behavior).

 

[Galatea]

They came from a happy home where their mommy and daddy played with them and sent them to the best Turkey school so they could be smart Turkeys with good careers with health / dental / gym on site to keep themselves in good shape so when they retire and get butchered they make tasty Turkey patties!

Lol, I would feel better if my food was not miserable before it was killed. If that is incongruous, so be it.