Dan. 9

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
13
0
Because there were Jews who did believe in Jesus as their Messiah. Most of the apostles were of Israel. There are many Jewish believers, who after receiving Christ become apart of the church. Those of Israel who did not receive Jesus as Messiah belong to unbelieving Israel. It is that last generation of unbelieving Israel that God is going to deal with during that last seven years in fulfillment of the seventy sevens that were decreed upon them.

Every Jew who has received Jesus as Messiah from the on-set of the church until the resurrection, will be included in the resurrection as belonging to church, as well as those believing Jews who are alive at the time of the resurrection will be changed and caught up and that because they are considered to be apart of the church.

The Church = Jew and Gentiles

Israel = Unbelieving Israel

So what has happened to "glory, honour and peace to the Jew first"? where is it?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
So you are then saying, obliquely, that once Christ takes away the church, Israel undergoes wrath.

But this wrath is not just for Israel is it? It is for all non-believers. That contradicts Paul in Romans.
Right, the church is rescued from the time of God's wrath because those who have believed in Christ, the wrath that they deserve was poured out on Christ and therefore has been satisfied. And since we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, then the church cannot go be exposed to God's wrath. Unbelieving Israel will fulfill that last seven years of that seventy seven according to the decree. Since it is written, it must be fulfilled upon them, for is the time of God's vengeance.

Dan.2:31-45 also describes the dismantling of all human, Gentile governments with the Rock/Jesus falling on the feet of that ten-toed kingdom, which is that last day kingdom during the time of the beasts reign. After that, the Rock falls on the feet of the statue and smashes it to pieces without leaving a trace, which is figurative for the end of human government.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
13
0
Right, the church is rescued from the time of God's wrath because those who have believed in Christ, the wrath that they deserve was poured out on Christ and therefore has been satisfied. And since we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, then the church cannot go be exposed to God's wrath. Unbelieving Israel will fulfill that last seven years of that seventy seven according to the decree. Since it is written, it must be fulfilled upon them, for is the time of God's vengeance.

Dan.2:31-45 also describes the dismantling of all human, Gentile governments with the Rock/Jesus falling on the feet of that ten-toed kingdom, which is that last day kingdom during the time of the beasts reign. After that, the Rock falls on the feet of the statue and smashes it to pieces without leaving a trace, which is figurative for the end of human government.
But it is not just Israel though is it? It is all mankind.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
So what has happened to "glory, honour and peace to the Jew first"? where is it?
That's to the believing Jew and Gentile, not to the unbelieving. Haven't you ever read, "whoever has the Son has life, but whoever does not have the Son does not have life. Neither the unbelieving Jew nor Gentile has eternal life.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
13
0
That's to the believing Jew and Gentile, not to the unbelieving. Haven't you ever read, "whoever has the Son has life, but whoever does not have the Son does not have life. Neither the unbelieving Jew nor Gentile has eternal life.

Answer the question. Where is it?
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
Because there were Jews who did believe in Jesus as their Messiah. Most of the apostles were of Israel. There are many Jewish believers, who after receiving Christ become apart of the church. Those of Israel who did not receive Jesus as Messiah belong to unbelieving Israel. It is that last generation of unbelieving Israel that God is going to deal with during that last seven years in fulfillment of the seventy sevens that were decreed upon them.

Every Jew who has received Jesus as Messiah from the on-set of the church until the resurrection, will be included in the resurrection as belonging to church, as well as those believing Jews who are alive at the time of the resurrection will be changed and caught up and that because they are considered to be apart of the church.

The Church = Jew and Gentiles

Israel = Unbelieving Israel
Can you place the 1000 year reign?

ia it before or after the 7 year tribulation?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
Answer the question. Where is it?
What do you mean "where is it?"

You are not going to understand these things until you understand that the church and unbelieving Israel are two separate programs with God. God has unfinished prophecies to fulfill with Israel. To this day the nation Israel does not recognize Jesus as their Messiah and God is upon them that God is going to fulfill that last seven years of the seventy seven that was decreed upon them.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
13
0
Originally Posted by Ahwatukee

Because there were Jews who did believe in Jesus as their Messiah. Most of the apostles were of Israel. There are many Jewish believers, who after receiving Christ become apart of the church. Those of Israel who did not receive Jesus as Messiah belong to unbelieving Israel. It is that last generation of unbelieving Israel that God is going to deal with during that last seven years in fulfillment of the seventy sevens that were decreed upon them.

Every Jew who has received Jesus as Messiah from the on-set of the church until the resurrection, will be included in the resurrection as belonging to church, as well as those believing Jews who are alive at the time of the resurrection will be changed and caught up and that because they are considered to be apart of the church.

The Church = Jew and Gentiles

Israel = Unbelieving Israel

So what has happened to "glory, honour and peace to the Jew first"? where is it?


Just answer the question please.

Stop trying to divert away.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
Ahwatukee,

Can you place the 1000 year reign?

is it before or after the 7 year tribulation?[/QUOTE]
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
13
0
9 There will be anguish and distress for everyone who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek.

Come on Ahwatukee. Is wrath to the Jew first or not? Waiting....
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,436
68
48
Ahwatukee,

Can you place the 1000 year reign?

is it before or after the 7 year tribulation?
[/QUOTE]

Sorry I seen that as an open question, didn't know was not to be answered by me. Please forgive my indiscretion.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
Ahwatukee,

Can you place the 1000 year reign?

is it before or after the 7 year tribulation?
[/QUOTE]

Hello miknik5,

The thousand year reign of Christ takes place after He returns to the earth to end the age. When I say end of the age, I am referring to the end of human government on this earth and the establishment of Christs government. I clarified this because there are those who, in order to get around this issue, they have redefined the end of the age as referring to the end of Israels age, which is just a misinterpretation.

As you can see from the chronological order, after the 7th bowl has been poured out, then you have Rev.19:11-21 which is a detailed account of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, where at which time the beast and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. At that same time, an angel descends to the earth and seizes the dragon/Satan and binds him in the Abyss for a thousand years, which is synonymous with the same thousand years that Christ rules on this earth.

Therefore, the thousand year reign of Christ takes place following the seven year tribulation period.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
It does not bother anyone that Jesus was the reason for Temple worship and animal sacrifices in the first place and that Jesus came and fulfilled all that pertains to Temple worship and animal sacrifices and that NOW, the Temple of God is the church. God Himself ended Temple worship and animal sacrifices, so how are men out of the will of God going to bring it back?
the Jews in Jesus day, when they did temple sacrifice, did it redeem sin? Or where they already in unbelief? What makes any new temple or sacrifice any different, they are in unbelief, that's why they are doing it.

and prophesy must still be fulfilled
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Hi, Do you think there is any answer for the dilemma? There is a reason to believe that the Jews could build a Temple of God in the last days, however there is even greater reason to believe that it cannot be done.
What is that reason?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I can't believe what folks are writing, even the man who created the false pre-trib rapture realized that as long as the church age exists the Jews could NEVER build a Temple of God. Think people! God created Temple worship and animal sacrifices in order to prepare people for the ultimate sacrifice, Jesus Christ. Jesus came and completed that sacrifice around 33ad that ended Temple worship and animal sacrifice. The people actually continued to use the Temple until God Himself destroyed it in 70ad, today, and while the church remains on the earth THE TEMPLE OF GOD IS THE CHURCH. God did away with Temples made by human hands and established the church as the Temple of God...so how could someone say that the Jews are going to build a Temple of God? Also, we are talking about Christ rejecting Jews headed for hell, they cannot build a Temple of God, period. Even if they were able to build a copy of the Temple of God it could NEVER be the Temple of God.
Where does it say this, the temple was around for some 40 years after the church was started, this makes no sense,

the jews can build a temple nothing is stopping them but Islam and the reaction they would get.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
9 There will be anguish and distress for everyone who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek.

Come on Ahwatukee. Is wrath to the Jew first or not? Waiting....
There will be wrath for both Jew and Gentile unbelievers. However, there will be both Jew and Gentile who God will spare through the time of His wrath. The woman of Rev.12 represents unbelieving Israel who will flee out into the wilderness and will be cared for 1260 i.e. that last 3 1/2 years until Christ returns. Likewise, many of the great tribulation saints will be killed, but there will also be those who will survive to the end.

Both those who survive of Israel and those great tribulation saints, will be those who will repopulate the earth during the millennial period.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Can you place the 1000 year reign?

ia it before or after the 7 year tribulation?
after tribulation after the return of the lord, whoever endures will be saved, and enter the kingdom with Christ, when he sets up his throne on davids throne in Jerusalem as he promised
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest

I think people forget what the house of God was built for, it was not to do sacrifice, that was not why David wanted to build it, and it is not what it was for, it was a house even jesus called it a house of God, it was a place where they could worship and praise God.
 
P

prodigal

Guest
if davids kingdom is to be re-established at the end for 1000 years, and scripture says davids throne is an eternal throne, then are there 2 eternal thrones as Jesus is sitting on one now.

some prophetic scriptures are clear i.e mathew 24, so where some scriptures arent so clear, surely we should start with the ones that are. rev 20 is the only place a 1000 year reign is mentioned, but why is that taken literal when much of revelations is metaphorical . do you expect to see a real dragon out of the sea with 7 heads..