Dan. 9

[J7]

There will be wrath for both Jew and Gentile unbelievers. However, there will be both Jew and Gentile who God will spare through the time of His wrath. The woman of Rev.12 represents unbelieving Israel who will flee out into the wilderness and will be cared for 1260 i.e. that last 3 1/2 years until Christ returns. Likewise, many of the great tribulation saints will be killed, but there will also be those who will survive to the end.

Both those who survive of Israel and those great tribulation saints, will be those who will repopulate the earth during the millennial period.

And yet Paul says quite clearly that both wrath and glory, they are to the Jew first.

You are showing the Wrath hitting Jew and Gentile at the same time. This is completely against what Paul has said.

 

[samuel23]

You have a very strange reasoning process! First of all, and God knows this, I do not consider myself to be God. And second, God gave us His word so that we could know it and proclaim it. I understand His plan and that because of what Jesus said to all true believers:

"When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come."

So I share these things and because they don't agree with what you believe, you say I have God complex. I have been studying and being taught by the Spirit for over 40 years, so I am not going to pretend that I don't know what God's word says because it offends those those who are unlearned and have given themselves over to false teachers and their teachings.



Wrong!

"Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things?And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming."

The One holding back the man of lawlessness = Holy Spirit through the indwelling of the church

Until He is taken out of the way = The removal of the Holy Spirit and the church with Him

Then the lawless one will be revealed

1). Apostasy

2). The appearing of the Lord and our being gathered

3). Then the lawless one will be revealed

The scripture is not saying:

Apostasy

Man of lawlessness is revealed

The appearing of the Lord and our being gathered

The church will never see the man of lawless, the antichrist



Yes I agree, the antichrist must set up that abomination and stand in the temple proclaiming himself to be God before Jesus can return. Your error, as it is the same with many other expositors, is that you don't understand that the gathering of the church is a completely different event from the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.

The Lord's appearing and our being gathered to Him takes place prior to the first seal being opened. And the Lord's return to the earth to end the age takes place after the completion of God's wrath i.e. after the 7th bowl has been poured out. Those who will have been resurrected and the living who will have been changed, will be those who are seen wearing white linen, white and clean and riding on white horses following the Lord out of heaven to the earth, as revealed in Rev.19:14. We are those "called, chosen and faithful followers who return with Him (Rev.17:14)



What you are not taking into consideration is that, since Israel didn't receive Jesus as their Messiah, they are still waiting for His first arrival. When that antichrist comes, the first counterfeit miracle that he will perform will be to receive a fatal wound, (something that is not survivable) but he will survive it. And because of this, the world will be in amazement over this and will be in admiration over him. In addition to this, his side-kick, the false prophet, will be performing miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down out of heaven in full view of the world on behalf of the first beast, i.e. to authenticate his claim of being God.



"They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath."

We, the believers in Christ, are not appointed to suffer God's wrath. The setting up of the abomination takes place in the middle of the seven years, which is well into the wrath of God and therefore the church cannot be here.

So, the church does escape and because Jesus said that he would rescue us from God's coming wrath. And the reason that we cannot be here during the time of God's wrath, is because Jesus already experienced God's wrath on behalf of every believer. To send leave his church here during the time of his wrath would be like a double payment and as though Christ suffered for nothing.



I'm confusing people? You're telling them that, though they have been forgiven and have eternal life and are the bride of Christ, that they are still going to have to go through God's wrath. You're basically saying that there is no difference between those who have been credited with righteousness vs. those the wicked who continue to reject Christ, that both are going to be exposed to God's wrath.

I am telling people what scripture states, that the Lord is going to appear and gather his church, his bride, because they are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath. It would certainly be no blessed hope if the church was to remain here on earth for those judgments. Nor could believers comfort one another with the hope of being changed and caught up if that was to take place after God's wrath.

You need to understand that there is a difference between the trials and tribulation that the Lord said believers would have vs. the coming, unprecedented wrath of God. The first century church and those in different parts of the world today are suffering those trials and tribulations. But what is coming will be unprecedented and will be world-wide, so there would be no place for the church to hide. Only the woman/Israel and the great tribulation saints will be here during the time of God's wrath, but the church will have already been removed.

As I continue to proclaim, 69 of the 70 sevens have been fulfilled with the Messiah being cut off at the end of them. At that time God put that last seven on hold and began to build the church. Once the church has been completed, the Lord will then appear and gather the church taking them back to the Father's house. Following that God will pick up where he left off fulfilling that last seven years.

We as believers should always be prepared to keep the testimony of Jesus and the word of God even with the threat of persecution and death. But what we do not have to be worried about, is being exposed to God's coming wrath.

You reject obvious truth simply because it does not fit your agenda, you will always be outside the truth of the gathering of the church until you look at what you are doing. It is strange, because you practice this rejection of scripture about the rapture and then accept scripture about most of the rest of the bible.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

if davids kingdom is to be re-established at the end for 1000 years, and scripture says davids throne is an eternal throne, then are there 2 eternal thrones as Jesus is sitting on one now.

some prophetic scriptures are clear i.e mathew 24, so where some scriptures arent so clear, surely we should start with the ones that are. rev 20 is the only place a 1000 year reign is mentioned, but why is that taken literal when much of revelations is metaphorical . do you expect to see a real dragon out of the sea with 7 heads..

God speaks of a literal 1000 years. And does not give us any reason to think it is anythign else.

In alot of Gods prophesy, He used animals to describe gentile kingdoms. Think of Daniel

The animals may not have been real. but the kingdoms were as real as ever. The first 4 were literal and fulfilled, the revival of the 4th will also be real, and fulfilled in full (not symbolic)

 

[samuel23]

Where does it say this, the temple was around for some 40 years after the church was started, this makes no sense,

the jews can build a temple nothing is stopping them but Islam and the reaction they would get.

I explained in the most simple and direct way I know how why the Jews today could not build a Temple of God, it appears that you cannot understand what I wrote so I have to leave it at that, it would be redundant to do more.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I explained in the most simple and direct way I know how why the Jews today could not build a Temple of God, it appears that you cannot understand what I wrote so I have to leave it at that, it would be redundant to do more.

You said the bible said it

Can you back your claims

All I heard was your idea why you think they can;t and that God said they could not. I just would like you to back your claim,, please?

 

[samuel23]

The situation is kind of a stalemate. We get the idea from the bible that the Jews must build a Temple of God, and we find the reality that the Jews cannot build a Temple of God from the bible. We have clear scripture going against clear scripture, since the word of God does not go against the word of God, therefore it has to be the way WE are looking at it. After looking at the evidence for both sides, I find the greater evidence in favor of there being no physical temple simply because such a temple would insult God who has made the Temple of God the church. It is clear from 2Thess 2 that the church will still be here when the Antichrist goes into the Temple of God and proclaims that he is god. Lets think for a moment, Paul said that the Antichrist would take his seat in the Temple of God and be worshipped as god. Paul used the word for the actual dwelling place of God which Paul called the church, not the building. A movement started in 1906 has brought Satan into the church by pretending to be the Holy Spirit. Today in many churches Satan has taken his seat and is being worshipped as god. I am just thinking in words and looking for an answer not presenting a doctrine. If anyone has a better idea please present it.

 

[KJV1611]

Not in direct terms. However, if the anti-christ is to defile the Holy of Holies, then by mandate there must be a Temple. Being as we don't have one today, then it stands to reason that a 3rd has been alluded to in prophecy. If not, then please fill me in, how can Daniel 9:27 be fulfilled with out one?

Daniel 9:27 talks about Christ confirming God's covenant with Abraham and ending animal sacrifce, this has already been fulfilled.

 

[KJV1611]

The temple will be rebuilt
Antichrist can't "sit in the temple" unless there is one

(2 Thessalonians 2)

The temple of God is the human body.

1 Corinthians 3:16 KJV
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The situation is kind of a stalemate. We get the idea from the bible that the Jews must build a Temple of God, and we find the reality that the Jews cannot build a Temple of God from the bible. We have clear scripture going against clear scripture, since the word of God does not go against the word of God, therefore it has to be the way WE are looking at it. After looking at the evidence for both sides, I find the greater evidence in favor of there being no physical temple simply because such a temple would insult God who has made the Temple of God the church. It is clear from 2Thess 2 that the church will still be here when the Antichrist goes into the Temple of God and proclaims that he is god. Lets think for a moment, Paul said that the Antichrist would take his seat in the Temple of God and be worshipped as god. Paul used the word for the actual dwelling place of God which Paul called the church, not the building. A movement started in 1906 has brought Satan into the church by pretending to be the Holy Spirit. Today in many churches Satan has taken his seat and is being worshipped as god. I am just thinking in words and looking for an answer not presenting a doctrine. If anyone has a better idea please present it.

ok, no place in here did you give scripture which says Israel will not build a temple.

If you can not prove what you claim scripture says, then do not tell us scripture says it, Just say you believe it,, but can not prove it scriptural.

You would get better responses back to you. even if they disagree with you.

Many people have already explained why a temple could be built, and explained it would not be rebuilt to put mankind back under law. That seems to be your only argument against it, which has been already taken care of.

 

[samuel23]

ok, no place in here did you give scripture which says Israel will not build a temple.

If you can not prove what you claim scripture says, then do not tell us scripture says it, Just say you believe it,, but can not prove it scriptural.

You would get better responses back to you. even if they disagree with you.

Many people have already explained why a temple could be built, and explained it would not be rebuilt to put mankind back under law. That seems to be your only argument against it, which has been already taken care of.

temple. I think you are the only one who did not get it, sorry but I cannot make it any more plain.

 

[KJV1611]

The woman of Rev.12 represents unbelieving Israel who will flee out into the wilderness and will be cared for 1260 i.e. that last 3 1/2 years until Christ returns.

Seriously????? Do you really believe the WHORE of the bible - unbelieving Israel, gave birth to Jesus?

This is the woman who gave birth to the manchild.

Galatians 4:26 KJV
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

 

[J7]

temple. I think you are the only one who did not get it, sorry but I cannot make it any more plain.

Why can human beings not build a temple on Zion?

 

[samuel23]

Hey EG: Do you understand what precedent means? We understand what God will do and what God will not do by precedent. In other words, if God gives us a clear in context example of what He will do and what He will not do, then we can judge from that when we are wondering what God may do in the future. We have precedent on Temple building, first the tabernacle, then first Temple, then reconstructing the second Temple. In all cases these things were done by people who were saved(if you will), Godly folks who would go be with God when they died. Therefore we understand from that precedent that a Temple of God can only be built by men of God. Now, the Jews who have rejected Christ are headed for hell, they are not Godly people, therefore there is no reason from scripture to believe that God COULD allow then to build an actual Temple of God. Also, God has said that His present Temple is the church, so the Temple of God already exists.

 

[samuel23]

Why can human beings not build a temple on Zion?

I suppose they could build a temple, but it could never actually be a Temple of God since God did away with temple worship and now the Temple of God is the church.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hey EG: Do you understand what precedent means? We understand what God will do and what God will not do by precedent. In other words, if God gives us a clear in context example of what He will do and what He will not do, then we can judge from that when we are wondering what God may do in the future. We have precedent on Temple building, first the tabernacle, then first Temple, then reconstructing the second Temple. In all cases these things were done by people who were saved(if you will), Godly folks who would go be with God when they died. Therefore we understand from that precedent that a Temple of God can only be built by men of God. Now, the Jews who have rejected Christ are headed for hell, they are not Godly people, therefore there is no reason from scripture to believe that God COULD allow then to build an actual Temple of God. Also, God has said that His present Temple is the church, so the Temple of God already exists.

what does this have to do with anything?

This will not preclude unbelieving Isreal from building a temple they think they need to build? remember, they rejected Christ, so the think they still need sacrifice, even today in their sin, they think they need a new temple.

I never said a new temple would help anyone get saved,,

plus

1. There has to be a temple for an AOD (not yet fulfilled, did not happen in AD 70
2. The OT prophets show Jesus will set up his kingdom in Gods house (a new temple in jerusalem) and all the world will come here and worship him.

so what is your problem?

You said scripture says it is impossible. It is not, In fact, scripture says they will build a third one..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

temple. I think you are the only one who did not get it, sorry but I cannot make it any more plain.

You could give the bible passage that say literally Israel will never build a temple again, Like your claiming.

I never said we need a temple for future people to get saved now did I?

 

[KJV1611]

You could give the bible passage that say literally Israel will never build a temple again, Like your claiming.

I never said we need a temple for future people to get saved now did I?

Where do you find this rebuilt temple in the bible?

 

[miknik5]

Hello miknik5,

The thousand year reign of Christ takes place after He returns to the earth to end the age. When I say end of the age, I am referring to the end of human government on this earth and the establishment of Christs government. I clarified this because there are those who, in order to get around this issue, they have redefined the end of the age as referring to the end of Israels age, which is just a misinterpretation.

As you can see from the chronological order, after the 7th bowl has been poured out, then you have Rev.19:11-21 which is a detailed account of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, where at which time the beast and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. At that same time, an angel descends to the earth and seizes the dragon/Satan and binds him in the Abyss for a thousand years, which is synonymous with the same thousand years that Christ rules on this earth.

Therefore, the thousand year reign of Christ takes place following the seven year tribulation period.

and who will be reigning during this time?
who...makes up those who have a part in the first resurrection?

 

[miknik5]

Where do you find this rebuilt temple in the bible?

2 Thessalonians 2 for one

 

[miknik5]

S

I suppose they could build a temple, but it could never actually be a Temple of God since God did away with temple worship and now the Temple of God is the church.

They didn't understand that
which is why they are going to rebuild a temple

and when Daniel was given the vision of the abomination which causes desolation standing in the temple, he (at that time) would have understood the temple to be the earthly dwelling place of GOD where all the worship and priestly activities were performed