Who is the woman in Rev 12:5?

[Issachar92]

I think the symbolism can refer to both Israel and Mary and Jesus.

When I compare it to the Old Testament its clearly Israel, but what kind of bothers me is Rev 12:5 Where it says He will rule all nations.

Certainly that has to be speaking about Jesus no? If anyone has a good idea to make it fit with it being Israel in the time of Jacob's trouble and not 1st century Mary Jesus and Herod please do let me know because I think other than this one detail Israel matches.

 

[dcontroversal]

Virgo.....................one of the 12 signs of the Mazzaroth of Job

 

[KJV1611]

The book of Ephesians refers to God gathering all things in Christ as the mystery of God. Now to answer your question of what I mean by "we are part of the mystery of God." Those who desired to be like God fell in the mind of the flesh in the garden, the fruit: selfish existence. This includes natural Israel who did not seek it by faith that works by Love. Now those who return as servants of no reputations: the prodigal son, are received as sons, "those who suffer with Him will rule with Him." Those who think that God will yet again chose natural Israel do not understand that the old covenant was nullified by Jesus dying. The abomination prophesied by Daniel to stand in the church, (now the temple of God) and the daily sacrifice taken away happens twice the first time happened already, Daniel 8:11, and the interpretation in 8:23 referring to Hitler fighting against the Jews and Christians, coinciding with the length of the second world war: 2,300 days, the second time is in Daniel 12:7 for a time, times and the dividing of time, being the judgment, this time the persecution is against the church as mentioned the enemy making war against the woman and the remnant of her seed. A hidden meaning here, the persecution of the church is commonly know as the rapture. "The overcame by the blood of the Lamb, the word of their testimony and they loved not their lives as much as to shrink from death. Where the enemy will cause everyone who doesn't worship it to be put to death. It also doesn't mean that the effect of the cause is that all will be cough up to God, before the end. As saying if we jump to conclusion and think we know, we stop learning. "Except those days be shortened no flesh shall be saved, but for the elect's sake, those days shall be shortened."

Interesting, thank you!

 

[KJV1611]

It would seem reasnable that if the number of years amounting to either three or four "God-like days" is not know, the three of those days since Christ's first advent would also be off according to the previous disparity, but this is my reasoning. Also the hour and the day are only known to our blessed God.

Yes but we know historically that Jesus came about 2000 years ago give or take a couple of years.

 

[KJV1611]

The end times become really clear once you identify who the woman is.

The 12 stars refer to the 12 tribes of Israel, which will consist of 144,000.

Compare Rev 12 to Genesis 37...

Rev 12:1-6: "Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. She bore a male Child (Jesus) who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days"

Genesis 37:9: "Then he dreamed still another dream and told it to his brothers, and said, “Look, I have dreamed another dream. And this time, the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me.”

The male child (Jesus) came from the tribe of Judah (Israel). This all fits together perfectly with the woman being Israel.



Rev 12:13-17: "Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ"


There's a distinction made here, between Israel and her offspring (those who have the testimony of Jesus).

Satan tries to destroy Israel, is unsuccessful, gets angry, then goes after the tribulation christians. If you're suggesting that the woman is actually the church then you would be changing the interpretation of the above scripture to say "satan tries to destroy the church, is unsuccessful, gets angry and goes after the church" - doesn't make sense does it.

Just like Noah's Ark and Lot & his family, they were kept safe from God's wrath. So too will the remnant of Israel be kept safe. However, seems the majority of christians who get saved during the tribulation will end up getting beheaded for their faith (Rev 20:4)

The current faithful church is not mentioned in the last days at all, so obviously we won't be here. There just doesn't seem to be a plan for us in the tribulation as it's God's last call to repentance for all the non believers, and also He will be dealing with Israel during those days, as these scriptures confirm. There will be two witnesses. Seems to be a big flip here, because today the gentiles are the ones sharing the gospel with the world, but in the last days it will be predominantly the Jews proclaiming the good news to the world.

I respect your view and I can see your point but the woman can only be one of two women... Hagar or heavenly Jerusalem. Jesus actually came from both women - Hagar through his earthly lineage but heavenly Jerusalem because he was born from above. The question is which woman is Revelation 12 talking about. Did God protect the children of Hagar in AD 70? Will God protect the children of Hagar in the 7 year tribulation and if so why?

The seed of the woman, if she is heavenly Jerusalem, are the one's who are born from above. So I'm not suggesting that heavenly Jerusalem is the church, I'm suggesting that her seed is the church.... Heavenly Jerusalem as far as I can tell is the word of God because that's what creates the 2nd birth.

 

[KJV1611]

He said the woman is Israel,and the moon is wife,wives,of Jacob,with Jacob being the sun,and the 12 stars being the 12 tribes of Israel,which is the truth,the woman is Israel,and not the Church,for the Church was never taken from the Jews,for salvation is of the Jews,and when a Gentile is saved they are a Jew inward,and belong to the commonwealth of Israel.

The Church was not taken from Israel,but they lost possession of their land temporarily,but the kingdom will be restored to them in the millennial reign of Christ,after God turns Israel as a nation to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

The woman is pregnant with child,who is the child Christ Jesus,who came through Israel,who was caught up to the throne of God,and will come back and rule the world with a rod of iron.

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The 7 years period that God will allow the world to have their way,and cause all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,and bring Israel as a nation to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

The nation of Israel is protected for the 7 years period from physical attack,but after the last three and one half years of persecution towards the saints,then those that remain will be gathered unto Christ,and then the world will attack Israel,and Jesus will come back with the saints and save Israel,and defeat the world.

The kingdom of earth shall be restored to Israel,and no Gentile government shall rule,and Jesus and the saints will rule over one sixth of the world that fought against Israel.

The wives of Israel are Israel aren't they? That analogy doesn't work... that's like saying one part of Israel is standing on top of another part of Israel.

 

[J7]

I respect your view and I can see your point but the woman can only be one of two women... Hagar or heavenly Jerusalem. Jesus actually came from both women - Hagar through his earthly lineage but heavenly Jerusalem because he was born from above. The question is which woman is Revelation 12 talking about. Did God protect the children of Hagar in AD 70? Will God protect the children of Hagar in the 7 year tribulation and if so why?

The seed of the woman, if she is heavenly Jerusalem, are the one's who are born from above. So I'm not suggesting that heavenly Jerusalem is the church, I'm suggesting that her seed is the church.... Heavenly Jerusalem as far as I can tell is the word of God because that's what creates the 2nd birth.

Jesus is not from Hagar

 

[JaumeJ]

If the number of year previous are not known due to the purposeful leaving out of estimates of certain person's years, then we have no idea to what figure the 2000 yeas is to be added.

Thes figures were omitted because of the commandment not to add to nor take away from the Word of god, therefore, though the wise men of yore in fear of Yahweh did ntot hazard to guess, in obedience and love.

Yes but we know historically that Jesus came about 2000 years ago give or take a couple of years.

 

[J7]

You have to understand the component parts though KJV.

The Sun is Jacob = Israel

God's protection on Israel was:

3 [FONT=&quot]And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]As the Church is Israel, the same blessing applies:

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]9 Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed.10 For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.11 For the Lord God is a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.12 O Lord of hosts, blessed is the man that trusteth in thee.[/FONT]


[/FONT]
It is a way of showing that the Church is protected.

 

[stonesoffire]

If the woman is Israel and the moon is Israel, how is Israel standing on Israel... this makes no sense. But what does make since is that the woman, the church has the dominion over Israel i.e., the kingdom was taken from Israel and given to the gentiles.

I thought since the moon is the symbol of Islam...this is reference to the spirit that was of Ishmael. Religion without grace.

The overcomers with religion under their feet. Its just our human nature or the natural man.

But, I could be wrong. Not up to Revelations yet.

 

[J7]

Well, ironically, Islam and (Jeru)Salem are the same word.

Islam is earthly Jerusalem, in that the children of bondage are there.

 

[stonesoffire]

Oh my goodness...the fight over Israel.

Now I understand it.

 

[KJV1611]

No! The woman is clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars. Therefore, since the sun represents Jacob and the moon represents his wife or wives and the stars represent the twelve tribes of Israel, then the woman as a whole represents the nation Israel.

The Sun IS NOT the woman, it's external of the woman. The moon IS NOT part of the woman, she is standing on top of it, that means she has dominion over it. The 12 stars ARE NOT the woman, they are external of her. All of these things are ADDED TO the woman and are not the woman.

What clothes "the woman" in the bible? The righteousness of Christ.

 

[KJV1611]

I believe it is hidden only in the sense it is not recognized or accepted...yet really quite visible ! but not to the world !

Can you point her out? I look at this forum and I can't say so and so is the real church but so and so isn't.

 

[KJV1611]

First of all, the verse says that the woman gives birth to a "male child" and therefore, the child is not a "she."

The male child is a collective name representing the 144,000 who are the first fruits that come out of Israel (gives birth to) who will recognize Jesus as their Messiah. These, as the male child, will be caught up to God and His throne in the middle of the seven years, similar to how the living church is caught up when the resurrection takes place.

I think you misread what I wrote, I didn't say the child is a she, the child is Jesus.

 

[MattforJesus]

The Bible says that Israel is blinded in part,until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in,and so all Israel shall be saved.

The disciples asked Jesus if He would restore the kingdom to them at that time,and He said,in the future,do not worry about it,preach the Gospel.

Jesus said the Jews will not see Him again until they say,blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord.

God will send 2 witnesses to Israel and turn the nation to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

The woman is Israel.

The 7 years period is for causing all people who do not love God to follow the beast kingdom,fulness of the Gentles be come in,and bring Israel as a nation to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah,and all Israel shall be saved.

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

The woman,Israel,is protected from being physically attacked for the 7 years period,but they will be attacked after the 7 years period is over when the saints are gathered unto Christ at the end of the 7 years period,and the world attacks Israel for they came to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah,and Jesus comes back with His saints and saves Israel,and defeats the world.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time(last three and one half years).

Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Israel is protected from physical attack for the 7 years period,but the saints get persecuted during the last three and one half years,which the last king will destroy the mighty and holy people.Which the saints will have trouble in the first three and one half years if they try to convert someone over to their religion,for it will be a hate crime to do so,for all religions are vaild for spiritual enlightenment,whatever path a person wants to take,and they might have mocking from people,but maybe not for they are trying to have peace at that time,so if the saints go about their business,and do not bother people they most likely will be left alone during the first three and one half years.

The woman is Israel and she is protected for the 7 years period,for God has the plan to bring her to the truth,and restore the kingdom to her,the saints are not protected for they are spiritual,and right with God,so people going against them does not matter for they are alright,but Israel must be protected so God can work with them to bring them to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

 

[KJV1611]

Hello Katy-follower, as I previously posted, upon closer examination, Jesus does not fit the criteria of being the male child. For the male child is "caught up" to God's throne before the dragon can harm him. In opposition to this, Jesus was crucified, buried and resurrected. The word "harpazo" translated "caught up" is the same word used to describe the event of the living church being "caught up" at the time of the resurrection. It is also the same word used when Paul said that he was "caught up" to the third heaven. Point being that, Jesus was crucified, where the male child is caught up to God's throne. Therefore, Jesus does not fit the criteria of being the male child.

On the other hand, the 144,000 come out of Israel (gives birth to) as the first fruits to God who will acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah. In addition to this, Rev.14:4 tells us that these 144,000 will be those who did not defile themselves with woman meaning that they are all males, ergo, male child.

Jesus as the male child is the obvious, knee-jerk interpretation and the one everyone just continues to repeat.

Also, in the scripture "to rule all nations with a rod of iron" is spoke in regards to the church, the male child and Jesus.

Can you tell us where you got "the male child is caught up to God's throne before THE DRAGON CAN HARM HIM"?

 

[KJV1611]

This is way too vague.
Everything in the Bible is there for a reason, how much more so symbolic things.

Why 'clothed with the sun"

Why 'a crown' of 12 stars.

Why 'the moon', 'under her feet'.

What does it all mean?

When you figure all that out let me know.

 

[valiant]

The answer is simple. The woman is pre-messiah spiritual Israel. The sun moon and twelve stars represent Jacob, His wives and his twelve sons per Joseph's dream representing godly Isrel. 'She' was suffering the messianic birth pangs and brought forth the Messiah. The Messiah was snatched up to Heaven at the resurrection. The woman then had to undergo the initial period of protection forecast (in Pella) as the Roman government persecuted the remainder of the Jews in Jerusalem. The period of 3.1/2 years was based on the example of Elijah's period in James 5.17-18 when he prayed and the rain was withheld. In their case they prayed for protection from the rain of persecution..

 

[JaumeJ]

I apologize for responding first about the woman on seven hills in place of the Woman with the sun and the moon and the stars.


I did later respond to the latter not realizing it was the original intent of the post God bless all in Jesus Christ........j