For Non Tongue Speakers Only
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This thread is deceptive & destructive, with videos that are telling half-truths & downright lies.
Firstly, the Op needs to get educated about the Pentecostal Movement & the charismatic movement.
They are separate, distinct movements. The P.M. started in 1906 with christians of all denominations & colors worshiping in full agreement in the Holy Spirit.
The CM started within the Roman Catholic Church in the early 1960's
Even Wikipedia says they're nothing alike.
Ignorant, idiotic statements, for example, stating that the AoG is of the charismatic movement is a total fabrication.
The Pentecostal Movement has suffered for years from the likes of John MacArthur stating they were one & the same.
This is a slanderous trick to destroy the truth, to get people to turn from the Pentecostal Movement.
Has tongues been abused & faked? You betcha. So is every gift of the Spirit. Satan has been doing this thru the televangelists for decades.
Everybody wants to harp on the tongues issue when the Bible itself proclaims that the teaching gifts & the gift of prophecy are the two most abused & faked gifts in the church.
In all of Paul's epistles, he warns about false teachers & prophets. THEY'RE EVERYWHERE.
Firstly, the Op needs to get educated about the Pentecostal Movement & the charismatic movement.
They are separate, distinct movements. The P.M. started in 1906 with christians of all denominations & colors worshiping in full agreement in the Holy Spirit.
The CM started within the Roman Catholic Church in the early 1960's
Even Wikipedia says they're nothing alike.
Ignorant, idiotic statements, for example, stating that the AoG is of the charismatic movement is a total fabrication.
The Pentecostal Movement has suffered for years from the likes of John MacArthur stating they were one & the same.
This is a slanderous trick to destroy the truth, to get people to turn from the Pentecostal Movement.
Has tongues been abused & faked? You betcha. So is every gift of the Spirit. Satan has been doing this thru the televangelists for decades.
Everybody wants to harp on the tongues issue when the Bible itself proclaims that the teaching gifts & the gift of prophecy are the two most abused & faked gifts in the church.
In all of Paul's epistles, he warns about false teachers & prophets. THEY'RE EVERYWHERE.
God prefers that you pray normally so that you know what you had prayed for so that when you get an answer to known prayers that you had prayed for, you can give the Father genuine thanks in Jesus Christ's name for answered prayers.
1 Thessalonians 5:[SUP]17 [/SUP]Pray without ceasing.[SUP] 18 [/SUP]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
Colossians 1:[SUP]3 [/SUP]We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,[SUP] 4 [/SUP]Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,The Holy Spirit cannot use God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people for His own means of praying.
John 16:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. KJV
Check any or all the modern Bibles you want, the truth remains the same in John 16:13 that the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself; He can only speak what He hears.
That is why all modern Bibles has it wrong in Romans 8:26-27 and only the KJV has it right that the intercessions of the Holy Spirit's are unspeakable because He cannot utter them; not even His groaning. That is why Another is needed to know the mind of the Spirit as this Other searches our hearts is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself at that throne of grace.
Romans 8:[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV
Hebrews 4:[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.[SUP] 13 [/SUP]Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.[SUP] 15 [/SUP]For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Anyway, you may need to go before that throne of grace for help in discernment and wisdom in regarding God's gift of tongues and what is not His gift of tongues but a supernatural tongue found in the world. We are to shun vain & profane babbling and pray normally so that we can do the will of God in giving thanks to the Father in Jesus's name for known answers to prayers.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]15 [/SUP]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.[SUP]16 [/SUP]But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.......[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;[SUP]2 [/SUP]Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Isaiah 8:[SUP]19 [/SUP]And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
1 Thessalonians 5:[SUP]17 [/SUP]Pray without ceasing.[SUP] 18 [/SUP]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
Colossians 1:[SUP]3 [/SUP]We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,[SUP] 4 [/SUP]Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,The Holy Spirit cannot use God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people for His own means of praying.
John 16:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. KJV
Check any or all the modern Bibles you want, the truth remains the same in John 16:13 that the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself; He can only speak what He hears.
That is why all modern Bibles has it wrong in Romans 8:26-27 and only the KJV has it right that the intercessions of the Holy Spirit's are unspeakable because He cannot utter them; not even His groaning. That is why Another is needed to know the mind of the Spirit as this Other searches our hearts is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself at that throne of grace.
Romans 8:[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV
Hebrews 4:[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.[SUP] 13 [/SUP]Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.[SUP] 15 [/SUP]For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Anyway, you may need to go before that throne of grace for help in discernment and wisdom in regarding God's gift of tongues and what is not His gift of tongues but a supernatural tongue found in the world. We are to shun vain & profane babbling and pray normally so that we can do the will of God in giving thanks to the Father in Jesus's name for known answers to prayers.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]15 [/SUP]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.[SUP]16 [/SUP]But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.......[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;[SUP]2 [/SUP]Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Isaiah 8:[SUP]19 [/SUP]And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
Just by the title of the thread it is inviting people who believe in speaking in tongues and who don't believe to debate. To me it is offensive to exclude people just because they believe in tongues. Believers in Christ are to welcome all believers in Christ regardless of what they believe or don't believe about things that are not foundational to the faith( meaning are not neccessary to believe in in order to be saved). We are also to welcome people who don't believe in Christ. We ought to love people regardless of what they believe or don't believe.
Full agreement ? Hardly ... as evidenced by the continuous contentious threads on the topic. But you do acknowledge that the tongues movement is a relatively new phenomenon in terms of church history, no ? (approx. 100 yrs.) Can't help wondering what the body of Christ did without it for the previous 1900 yrs. or so ?
I speak in tongues
You speak what in tongues? Into the air?
How would speaking into the air edify the church?
Would that not make both parties Barbarians to each other. Do we ignore what the bible teaches us and call that edyfying the church ?
There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 1Co 14:10
It takes two people to have a conversation.
I would agree with them when tongue speakers claim they speak in foreign languages but also use tongues for prayer.
There is no need for tongues in an assembly where every one speaks the same language. Since Paul said the whole point of the manifestations of the Spirit is to profit the body withal, then the gift of prophesy will be manifested.
There has been no practice of having 2 or 3 prophesy while one judge when the written scripture are available as of late.
So why all the speaking in tongues? Clearly, I can see the reason to denounce them all in a church that uses tongues as a prayer language also.
A church thought they had the actual gift of God's tongue because they were interpreting it. They hired a linguist to record the tongue and the interpretation of that tongue, only to find that the tongue was just babbling and the interpretation faked.
Joyce Meyers at one time explained how she interprets tongues and that is in her spirit, she gets a sense of what is being said. That is not how anyone interprets tongues. If a foreigner does not understand the tongue supposedly spoken in his language, then no one can guess what that tongue is saying in that man's language.
Joyce Meyers is also a believer that had the Holy Spirit came over her in life, bringing tongues without interpretation and she believed that was a "sign" that God was calling her into the ministry.
So she is using her phenomenon of what YOU say is not of the Lord of the Holy Spirit coming over her later on in life, and using tongues as a sign to herself, already a believer for some time now, that God is calling her into the ministry.
But do tongue speakers such as yourself that believe in the way you believe as to when a believer receives the Holy Spirit speak out against Joyce Meyers? No.
So I understand the throwing the baby out with the bathwater on all speaking in tongues even when claimed they are doing God's actual gift of tongues, but when they claim it also can be used as a prayer language of the Holy Spirit, then they are faking it about having God's actual gift of tongues and knowing it not.
There is no need for tongues in an assembly where every one speaks the same language. Since Paul said the whole point of the manifestations of the Spirit is to profit the body withal, then the gift of prophesy will be manifested.
There has been no practice of having 2 or 3 prophesy while one judge when the written scripture are available as of late.
So why all the speaking in tongues? Clearly, I can see the reason to denounce them all in a church that uses tongues as a prayer language also.
A church thought they had the actual gift of God's tongue because they were interpreting it. They hired a linguist to record the tongue and the interpretation of that tongue, only to find that the tongue was just babbling and the interpretation faked.
Joyce Meyers at one time explained how she interprets tongues and that is in her spirit, she gets a sense of what is being said. That is not how anyone interprets tongues. If a foreigner does not understand the tongue supposedly spoken in his language, then no one can guess what that tongue is saying in that man's language.
Joyce Meyers is also a believer that had the Holy Spirit came over her in life, bringing tongues without interpretation and she believed that was a "sign" that God was calling her into the ministry.
So she is using her phenomenon of what YOU say is not of the Lord of the Holy Spirit coming over her later on in life, and using tongues as a sign to herself, already a believer for some time now, that God is calling her into the ministry.
But do tongue speakers such as yourself that believe in the way you believe as to when a believer receives the Holy Spirit speak out against Joyce Meyers? No.
So I understand the throwing the baby out with the bathwater on all speaking in tongues even when claimed they are doing God's actual gift of tongues, but when they claim it also can be used as a prayer language of the Holy Spirit, then they are faking it about having God's actual gift of tongues and knowing it not.
You say that "slain in the Spirit" and "drunk in the Spirit" and "holy laughter" movement is not of the Lord, but of the devil, yes?
Then explain how by the same rudiment of invoking the Holy Spirit to fall on them in these apostate movements, it is the same rudiment to get this tongue you defend as coming with no interpretation and how other believers testify of feeling the Holy Spirit coming over them later in life bringing this tongue with no interpretation, that it is not also an evil fruit from that evil tree?
How can you alienate yourself from those that have fallen away from the faith when you speak the same kind of tongue with no interpretation when it was gained by apostasy?
And you have yet to share how you got your supernatural tongue. I'm sure tongue speakers would like to know too.
Then explain how by the same rudiment of invoking the Holy Spirit to fall on them in these apostate movements, it is the same rudiment to get this tongue you defend as coming with no interpretation and how other believers testify of feeling the Holy Spirit coming over them later in life bringing this tongue with no interpretation, that it is not also an evil fruit from that evil tree?
How can you alienate yourself from those that have fallen away from the faith when you speak the same kind of tongue with no interpretation when it was gained by apostasy?
And you have yet to share how you got your supernatural tongue. I'm sure tongue speakers would like to know too.
And how do you display your righteous anger when people are speaking in supernatural babbling tongue but are unbelievers?
Isaiah 8:[SUP]19 [/SUP]And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
Satan has a supernatural tongue that has been in the world as vain & profane babbling BEFORE Pentecost's God's gift of tongues came which was of other men's lips to speak unto the people.
If you are to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil, how can you separate yourself from the world's tongues if you have a supernatural tongue that comes without interpretation the same as theirs?
This is why John said not to believe every spirit but test them. 1 John 4:1
Paul gave the bottom line on God's gift of tongues and that it was of other men's lips to speak unto the people. He never spoke of tongues plainly in any other way in clarifying the subject of tongues other than in 1 Corinthians 14:20-22.
Believers are reading their kind of tongue into scripture and out of context as to what Paul was saying in that chapter as to why when any believer that are zealous for spiritual gifts, to seek the gift of prophesy, because tongues is not a stand alone gift for it needs to be interpreted when manifested in the assembly or otherwise understood by a foreigner.
When believers do not get any other gifts of the Spirit by feeling the Holy Spirit coming over them in bring that gift apart from salvation, why is it that they believe God's gift of tongues comes in that way of feeling the Holy Spirit coming over them separate from salvation and yet this tongue comes with no interpretation & is just vain & profane babbling?
This is John warning believers today not to believe every spirit but test them 1 John 4:1. Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world 1 John 4:4 meaning since the Holy Spirit is in you since you were saved, then any spirit coming over a believer and filling that believer in bringing that tongue which is the way the world speaks is not the Holy Spirit nor God's gift of tongues. 1 John 4:5-6
1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.....[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.[SUP]6 [/SUP]We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Isaiah 8:[SUP]19 [/SUP]And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
Satan has a supernatural tongue that has been in the world as vain & profane babbling BEFORE Pentecost's God's gift of tongues came which was of other men's lips to speak unto the people.
If you are to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil, how can you separate yourself from the world's tongues if you have a supernatural tongue that comes without interpretation the same as theirs?
This is why John said not to believe every spirit but test them. 1 John 4:1
Paul gave the bottom line on God's gift of tongues and that it was of other men's lips to speak unto the people. He never spoke of tongues plainly in any other way in clarifying the subject of tongues other than in 1 Corinthians 14:20-22.
Believers are reading their kind of tongue into scripture and out of context as to what Paul was saying in that chapter as to why when any believer that are zealous for spiritual gifts, to seek the gift of prophesy, because tongues is not a stand alone gift for it needs to be interpreted when manifested in the assembly or otherwise understood by a foreigner.
When believers do not get any other gifts of the Spirit by feeling the Holy Spirit coming over them in bring that gift apart from salvation, why is it that they believe God's gift of tongues comes in that way of feeling the Holy Spirit coming over them separate from salvation and yet this tongue comes with no interpretation & is just vain & profane babbling?
This is John warning believers today not to believe every spirit but test them 1 John 4:1. Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world 1 John 4:4 meaning since the Holy Spirit is in you since you were saved, then any spirit coming over a believer and filling that believer in bringing that tongue which is the way the world speaks is not the Holy Spirit nor God's gift of tongues. 1 John 4:5-6
1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.....[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.[SUP]6 [/SUP]We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Which makes any one wonder why the debate if supposedly tongue speakers are only using it in their private prayer time when it comes with no interpretation?
Hence, tongues have been coming with no interpretation in the assembly.
Tongues have been the gift to seek after and not the gift of prophesy.
And some of them preach receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation if not again in order to get this tongue.
In the same way other believers preach receiving the Holy Spirit again for the signs in the slain in the Spirit, drunk in the Spirit, and the "holy laughter" movement too.
And that tongue which comes with no interpretation can be found in the occult as the devil's tongue as Isaiah 8:19 confirms.
Isaiah 8:[SUP]19 [/SUP]And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
So.... drawing the line here about what God's gift of tongues is which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people, from what it cannot nor can it ever be God's gift of tongues as coming without interpretation but is vain & profane babbling.
Hence, tongues have been coming with no interpretation in the assembly.
Tongues have been the gift to seek after and not the gift of prophesy.
And some of them preach receiving the Holy Spirit apart from salvation if not again in order to get this tongue.
In the same way other believers preach receiving the Holy Spirit again for the signs in the slain in the Spirit, drunk in the Spirit, and the "holy laughter" movement too.
And that tongue which comes with no interpretation can be found in the occult as the devil's tongue as Isaiah 8:19 confirms.
Isaiah 8:[SUP]19 [/SUP]And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
So.... drawing the line here about what God's gift of tongues is which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people, from what it cannot nor can it ever be God's gift of tongues as coming without interpretation but is vain & profane babbling.
The proof is that your understanding of what tongues is contradicts scripture, and it even contradicts itself.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/154806-tongue-speakers-survey-7.html#post3170620
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/154806-tongue-speakers-survey-7.html#post3170620
You have been taking verses out of context of what Paul is saying in how you "try" to validate tongues coming without interpretation. By doing so you ignore how you apply those verses out of context when it goes against the plain truth of scripture as stated in all modern Bibles that the Holy Spirit CANNOT speak for Himself but speak what He hears in John 16:13.
Only the Lord can lead you to normal prayer in asking Him to confirm His word to you of John 16:13 for you to see your error.
Only the Lord can lead you to normal prayer in asking Him to confirm His word to you of John 16:13 for you to see your error.