Are you RIGHTEOUS?
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Amen! This is the gospel.
Those that refute eternal security insist they are initially saved without works, but if a person has to do good works, obey,
abide, continue in faith, etc .etc., to be ultimately saved, then they are not really saved, they should say they,
honestly, that they are in the process of salvation and they have to add to the righteousness of Jesus by various means.
Yet, I have not seen anyone admit, among those who do not believe in eternal security, that they are adding to the righteousness of Jesus to be saved.
I really can see no way around this in their conditional security?
Those that refute eternal security insist they are initially saved without works, but if a person has to do good works, obey,
abide, continue in faith, etc .etc., to be ultimately saved, then they are not really saved, they should say they,
honestly, that they are in the process of salvation and they have to add to the righteousness of Jesus by various means.
Yet, I have not seen anyone admit, among those who do not believe in eternal security, that they are adding to the righteousness of Jesus to be saved.
I really can see no way around this in their conditional security?
Your system of belief is backwards, you believe that your obedience to God's commandments and the law is how you live a "righteous" life.
Yet under the new covenant (which Jesus ushered in by finishing the work that we could not on the cross) it is clear we are to live in the Spirit with an understanding that it is in our failing to live by the law and our disobedience to His commandments that led us to the point of utter despair, and now we turn to His Grace and Mercy for our sufficiency, for our new life in Christ.
It is our new relationship with God, under the new covenant that we are deemed righteous by Him.
Not our adherence to the commandments.
That is how you have it backwards
Yet under the new covenant (which Jesus ushered in by finishing the work that we could not on the cross) it is clear we are to live in the Spirit with an understanding that it is in our failing to live by the law and our disobedience to His commandments that led us to the point of utter despair, and now we turn to His Grace and Mercy for our sufficiency, for our new life in Christ.
It is our new relationship with God, under the new covenant that we are deemed righteous by Him.
Not our adherence to the commandments.
That is how you have it backwards
Oh my goodness Limey410,
You do not know me at all. Do you really need to resort to telling lies about me now? Is this because you cannot find anything that I have posted to prove your accusation about me from God's Word? If you cannot prove anything that I have posted in 470+ posts from God's Word is not correct then why do you not believe God's Word?
Maybe you need to read where in post 360 here in this thread or in any of the 470+ posts I have made elsewhere, that I have ever said to you or anyone else that I say and believe what you have accused me of in your post above in red? I guess though if this is the Gospel you believe in, than it is ok for you to lie and break God's Law because in your interpretation everyone can do what they like and still be saved. This is the false Gospel I warned about in another post here I suggest you read it.
"And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." (John 12:47) He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48)
May God help you
You do not know me at all. Do you really need to resort to telling lies about me now? Is this because you cannot find anything that I have posted to prove your accusation about me from God's Word? If you cannot prove anything that I have posted in 470+ posts from God's Word is not correct then why do you not believe God's Word?
Maybe you need to read where in post 360 here in this thread or in any of the 470+ posts I have made elsewhere, that I have ever said to you or anyone else that I say and believe what you have accused me of in your post above in red? I guess though if this is the Gospel you believe in, than it is ok for you to lie and break God's Law because in your interpretation everyone can do what they like and still be saved. This is the false Gospel I warned about in another post here I suggest you read it.
"And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." (John 12:47) He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48)
May God help you
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It's so hard for humans to freely receive. That's probably exactly why so many people cannot freely give. The Bible says we love Him because He first loved us. That's how it works when we begin to walk in God's reality. God's way is grace every step of the way.
It goes against the grain of human reason to accept that grace is apart from the law of sin and death. The 10 commandments are the laws written on tablets of stone. Many here on this thread don't understand that the obedience of the law is not the goal anymore. Those who try to gain acceptance by first seeking to behave well have missed it totally.
Before we get a revelation about the grace of God in Christ., we are busy trying to establish our own righteousness. No matter how good intentioned a person is as he goes about establishing his own righteousness in his good works, I've discovered God looks at it for what it is.... filthy rags. And when a Christian seeks to establish his own righteousness, he puts himself under the law again with all it's demands and ultimate sickness and death along with failure to walk in grace and truth.
Many of us believers have discovered the difference between working the works of God from the flesh vs from the Spirit. This discovery is for all us believers to know and be able to walk in it's truth. And then experience the real victory each day as we walk here on planet earth. We are meant to walk successfully. Someone shared the Bible verse in Jeremiah about God has plans for us for good and not evil. Yet many Christians insist God is using evil to teach us. What really happens is we in our sin forfeit the better way to learn from the Bible as the Holy Spirit instructs us from the Word.
When a believer falls it wasn't God who made them fall. He is always lifting us up. We cause our own falling down when we chose to walk in our own foolish choices. Then we suffer the consequences and we learn the hard way what God intended to teach us through His Word. But many times what actually went wrong is we didn't read the Word so to learn it., so we couldn't obey by believing the Word instead of our own reasoning. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Hearing it over and over is needed.
It goes against the grain of human reason to accept that grace is apart from the law of sin and death. The 10 commandments are the laws written on tablets of stone. Many here on this thread don't understand that the obedience of the law is not the goal anymore. Those who try to gain acceptance by first seeking to behave well have missed it totally.
Before we get a revelation about the grace of God in Christ., we are busy trying to establish our own righteousness. No matter how good intentioned a person is as he goes about establishing his own righteousness in his good works, I've discovered God looks at it for what it is.... filthy rags. And when a Christian seeks to establish his own righteousness, he puts himself under the law again with all it's demands and ultimate sickness and death along with failure to walk in grace and truth.
Many of us believers have discovered the difference between working the works of God from the flesh vs from the Spirit. This discovery is for all us believers to know and be able to walk in it's truth. And then experience the real victory each day as we walk here on planet earth. We are meant to walk successfully. Someone shared the Bible verse in Jeremiah about God has plans for us for good and not evil. Yet many Christians insist God is using evil to teach us. What really happens is we in our sin forfeit the better way to learn from the Bible as the Holy Spirit instructs us from the Word.
When a believer falls it wasn't God who made them fall. He is always lifting us up. We cause our own falling down when we chose to walk in our own foolish choices. Then we suffer the consequences and we learn the hard way what God intended to teach us through His Word. But many times what actually went wrong is we didn't read the Word so to learn it., so we couldn't obey by believing the Word instead of our own reasoning. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Hearing it over and over is needed.
Sorry re-post because the link I provided earlier was not working
Oh my goodness Limey410,
You do not know me at all. Do you really need to resort to telling lies about me now? Is this because you cannot find anything that I have posted to prove your accusation about me from God's Word? If you cannot prove anything that I have posted in 470+ posts from God's Word is not correct then why do you not believe God's Word?
Maybe you need to read where in post 360 here in this thread or in any of the 470+ posts I have made elsewhere, that I have ever said to you or anyone else that I say and believe what you have accused me of in your post above in red? I guess though if this is the Gospel you believe in, than it is ok for you to lie and break God's Law because in your interpretation everyone can do what they like and still be saved. This is the false Gospel I warned about in another post here I suggest you read it.
"And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." (John 12:47) He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48)
May God help you
Oh my goodness Limey410,
You do not know me at all. Do you really need to resort to telling lies about me now? Is this because you cannot find anything that I have posted to prove your accusation about me from God's Word? If you cannot prove anything that I have posted in 470+ posts from God's Word is not correct then why do you not believe God's Word?
Maybe you need to read where in post 360 here in this thread or in any of the 470+ posts I have made elsewhere, that I have ever said to you or anyone else that I say and believe what you have accused me of in your post above in red? I guess though if this is the Gospel you believe in, than it is ok for you to lie and break God's Law because in your interpretation everyone can do what they like and still be saved. This is the false Gospel I warned about in another post here I suggest you read it.
"And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." (John 12:47) He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48)
May God help you
E
God did not say Abel was imputed righteous because of his deed, if he was righteous, he would. OT need imputed righteousness, he needs it because he is not righteous, which was the purpose of the symbolic meaning of the sacred vice (it represented Christ thousands of years later)
he was imputed righteous because of his faith, not his work,
cain tried to appease god by his works, god rejected his attempt. Because works will not save us,
he was imputed righteous because of his faith, not his work,
cain tried to appease god by his works, god rejected his attempt. Because works will not save us,
Willybob is right Limey.
Did you ever read Mathew 5:27-28
Mathew 5:21-22
In fact Mathew 5:27-40 would be good.
I'll bet you've read it but don't like it.
Otherwise you don't understand it.
Jesus did not LOWER the bar, HE RAISED IT, just like Willybob said.
Before you had to commit adultery, NOW just LOOKING at a woman with LUST is adultery.
And so on through to verse 40.
WHY? Because Jesus is saying that God not only wants you to ACT in accordance with HIS commands,
GOD WANTS you to change your heart. So if you commit adultery in your heart, you've done the deed.
Does this sound like a lowering of the bar to you? Then read Mathew again.
And while you're at it, read Mathew 7:19...JESUS says that every tree that does NOT bear good fruit will be CUT DOWN.
Does that sound like a lowering of the bar to you?
Did you ever read Mathew 5:27-28
Mathew 5:21-22
In fact Mathew 5:27-40 would be good.
I'll bet you've read it but don't like it.
Otherwise you don't understand it.
Jesus did not LOWER the bar, HE RAISED IT, just like Willybob said.
Before you had to commit adultery, NOW just LOOKING at a woman with LUST is adultery.
And so on through to verse 40.
WHY? Because Jesus is saying that God not only wants you to ACT in accordance with HIS commands,
GOD WANTS you to change your heart. So if you commit adultery in your heart, you've done the deed.
Does this sound like a lowering of the bar to you? Then read Mathew again.
And while you're at it, read Mathew 7:19...JESUS says that every tree that does NOT bear good fruit will be CUT DOWN.
Does that sound like a lowering of the bar to you?
By faith Abel offered a sacrifice (Heb. 11:4). - Abel offered a sacrifice "by" (out of) a faith that "he already had" and confirmed his faith by what he did. Cain demonstrated an evil heart by his evil deeds, while Abel demonstrated a good heart by his righteous deeds (1 John 3:12); and that Abel offered his sacrifice by faith and Cain did not. Because of Cain's faith, God accounted him as righteous. His faith was evidenced in obedience to God's requirement for sacrifice by which he obtained witness that he was righteous. That sacrifice did not make his righteous, but through it he was shown to be righteous.
Faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness. God imputes righteousness apart from works (Romans 4:4-6).
Faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness. God imputes righteousness apart from works (Romans 4:4-6).
E
Why do you think this? I do not see that Jesus raised the bar, the bar was always the same, that's why no one could ever keep it, they could only appear to keep it,
jesus was telling you you can't obey the law, the law will always condemn you, because no one can keep it, you think you obeyed because you have not touched a woman, well in fact, if you look, you have broken the law,
he explained why the law, our works and such can not make us righteous, and why we need him,
jesus was telling you you can't obey the law, the law will always condemn you, because no one can keep it, you think you obeyed because you have not touched a woman, well in fact, if you look, you have broken the law,
he explained why the law, our works and such can not make us righteous, and why we need him,
What was it about your belief that limey lied about?
You yourself say that the gospel is tied to the 10 commandments.
IF the gospel is tied to the 10 commandments and someone believes in the Lord Jesus but doesn't believe they have to work at the commandments, doesn't that cause John 12:48 to condemn them?
And if it condemns them doesn't that make them unrighteous? Can't be righteous and condemned, right?
Maybe you didn't think this all the way through. Or you didn't understand the implications of what you do believe.
You yourself say that the gospel is tied to the 10 commandments.
IF the gospel is tied to the 10 commandments and someone believes in the Lord Jesus but doesn't believe they have to work at the commandments, doesn't that cause John 12:48 to condemn them?
And if it condemns them doesn't that make them unrighteous? Can't be righteous and condemned, right?
Maybe you didn't think this all the way through. Or you didn't understand the implications of what you do believe.
I've always said salvation by grace through faith, not works is not hard to understand. It's just hard for many people to ACCEPT. It's a tragedy that such people refuse to trust exclusively in Christ for salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they are too busy trusting in "their performance" to let go in order to receive Christ through faith. 
This is all "code" for - If Christians do not follow the Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Testament - then they are sinning and dis-obeying God. We are not ignorant of this scheme and devices.
This is a prime example of a "works-based - self-righteousness based" belief system which is based on "law-keeping" and that actually denies the very work of Christ on the cross and resurrection.
People are free in Christ to observe any day or festivals as they wish as they are mere shadows of the real thing which is Christ Himself.
Colossians 2:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—
[SUP]17 [/SUP] things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
To those that wish to observe the Sabbath as in from Friday night to Saturday that know that Christ alone is the real Sabbath rest and that the Old Covenant way of observing it is a type or shadow of the real thing which is Christ Himself - to those - I say "happy Sabbath".
To those that are seduced and deceived by the Judaizing spirit that say Christians are sinning and dis-obeying God if they don't follow the Old Covenant way of observing the Sabbath - to those I boldly proclaim Christ so that the truth of the gospel would remain with the saints just like Paul said to the Galatians.
Galatians 2:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.
This is a prime example of a "works-based - self-righteousness based" belief system which is based on "law-keeping" and that actually denies the very work of Christ on the cross and resurrection.
People are free in Christ to observe any day or festivals as they wish as they are mere shadows of the real thing which is Christ Himself.
Colossians 2:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—
[SUP]17 [/SUP] things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
To those that wish to observe the Sabbath as in from Friday night to Saturday that know that Christ alone is the real Sabbath rest and that the Old Covenant way of observing it is a type or shadow of the real thing which is Christ Himself - to those - I say "happy Sabbath".
To those that are seduced and deceived by the Judaizing spirit that say Christians are sinning and dis-obeying God if they don't follow the Old Covenant way of observing the Sabbath - to those I boldly proclaim Christ so that the truth of the gospel would remain with the saints just like Paul said to the Galatians.
Galatians 2:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.
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AMEN....the same outward show the Pharisees put on....Paul was blameless outwardly......inward as lost as a goose.....he had to be reeducated with a personal meeting with Jesus and the numerous years of study, instruction and direct revelation before he got over his law keeping religion that would take him straight to hell.......