THE LORD GIVES AND GIVES AND GIVES......
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Amen..I don't agree with everything any preacher or denomination believes. Here is my view on teachers in the body of Christ.
I have said this in the past a few times using another minister as an example of what "Not to do". I actually defended him although I don't agree with some of his beliefs.
( I do make exceptions for the Judaizing spirit which perverts the gospel and says that Christians are sinning and dis-obeying God if we don't follow the Sabbath as outlined in the Old Covenant. It's not the people themselves - it's the deceiving spirit that is driving them that we are against. )
Originally Posted by Grace777x70
This is so true. What if people started to put up videos maligning beloved men/women of God that Jesus bled and died for like John McArthur or every time his name is mentioned - he is being attacked - just because he doesn't believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit like other believers do? What Christian walking in love and with the Lord would even consider doing something like that?
We could use our "Christian" righteous anger to say that McArthur is spreading the most vile kind of heresy and is in fact a wolf. We could show a video with a snake wrapped around him for "special effects" to further show the "truth" of his apostasy and how he is leading so many others down the wrong path.
Nobody should slander and be so malice-filled toward McArthur to do such a thing to a person that the Lord has saved and loved. ( bit sadly there are websites dedicated to McArthur )
There are actually WEBSITES dedicated to showing that the apostle Paul was a heretic too because he "conflicted" with Jesus' words.
I have said this in the past a few times using another minister as an example of what "Not to do". I actually defended him although I don't agree with some of his beliefs.
( I do make exceptions for the Judaizing spirit which perverts the gospel and says that Christians are sinning and dis-obeying God if we don't follow the Sabbath as outlined in the Old Covenant. It's not the people themselves - it's the deceiving spirit that is driving them that we are against. )
This is so true. What if people started to put up videos maligning beloved men/women of God that Jesus bled and died for like John McArthur or every time his name is mentioned - he is being attacked - just because he doesn't believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit like other believers do? What Christian walking in love and with the Lord would even consider doing something like that?
We could use our "Christian" righteous anger to say that McArthur is spreading the most vile kind of heresy and is in fact a wolf. We could show a video with a snake wrapped around him for "special effects" to further show the "truth" of his apostasy and how he is leading so many others down the wrong path.
Nobody should slander and be so malice-filled toward McArthur to do such a thing to a person that the Lord has saved and loved. ( bit sadly there are websites dedicated to McArthur )
There are actually WEBSITES dedicated to showing that the apostle Paul was a heretic too because he "conflicted" with Jesus' words.
True grace doesn't permit us to stay the same; after you know that you are not condemned - it empowers you to change.
Grace was never intended to allow us to keep on being the same as the true gospel of the grace of Christ is God's very empowerment through the life of Christ in and through us that transforms us - as we behold the glory of Christ as in a mirror - we see reflected back who we are in Him because we are one spirit with the Lord and the Spirit transforms us ( 2 Cor. 3:17-18 ) -
His life transforms us outwardly to reflect Christ that is in our inner man - created in righteousness and holiness. We "awake to righteousness and sin not". Awake means to come to ourselves - to sober up, to be who we already and truly are in our new creation.
When we see that we are called to the true life in Christ and we know we can't work it up and can't accomplish it in our own strength but we desire the His life in us to come forth - that's when empowering grace comes to make our faith a reality in our lives.
Grace was never intended to allow us to keep on being the same as the true gospel of the grace of Christ is God's very empowerment through the life of Christ in and through us that transforms us - as we behold the glory of Christ as in a mirror - we see reflected back who we are in Him because we are one spirit with the Lord and the Spirit transforms us ( 2 Cor. 3:17-18 ) -
His life transforms us outwardly to reflect Christ that is in our inner man - created in righteousness and holiness. We "awake to righteousness and sin not". Awake means to come to ourselves - to sober up, to be who we already and truly are in our new creation.
When we see that we are called to the true life in Christ and we know we can't work it up and can't accomplish it in our own strength but we desire the His life in us to come forth - that's when empowering grace comes to make our faith a reality in our lives.
This seems to be a common mis-understanding or in some cases a deliberate deceitful mis-representation of what is really being said - grace believers say that we are free "from" sin not free "to" sin.
There is definitely "empowering grace" to effect changes in us. Thank you Jesus!
There are 2 aspects to grace. The very first thing that Jesus does with the woman caught in adultery is that He gets rid of her accusers - the religious Pharisees that wanted to condemn her because the "bible" said so in the Old Covenant. She was to be stoned. ( the law condemns us )
Jesus was the only one qualified to condemn her but He didn't.
1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you".
It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.
2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace.
Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you already are in Christ now because you are a new creation in Him.
The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you."
The grace of God and the blood of Jesus speaks of better things in this New Covenant of grace!
"Knowing" that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!
Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.
What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based mindset and the self-appointed "fruit inspectors" have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part.
This can "offend" us and I understand why. The gospel is scandalous and offensive to the works-righteousness belief system and it "conflicts" with our religious man-made traditions.
There is definitely "empowering grace" to effect changes in us. Thank you Jesus!
There are 2 aspects to grace. The very first thing that Jesus does with the woman caught in adultery is that He gets rid of her accusers - the religious Pharisees that wanted to condemn her because the "bible" said so in the Old Covenant. She was to be stoned. ( the law condemns us )
Jesus was the only one qualified to condemn her but He didn't.
1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you".
It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.
2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace.
Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you already are in Christ now because you are a new creation in Him.
The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you."
The grace of God and the blood of Jesus speaks of better things in this New Covenant of grace!
"Knowing" that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!
Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.
What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based mindset and the self-appointed "fruit inspectors" have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part.
This can "offend" us and I understand why. The gospel is scandalous and offensive to the works-righteousness belief system and it "conflicts" with our religious man-made traditions.
Amen..I don't agree with everything any preacher or denomination believes. Here is my view on teachers in the body of Christ.
I have said this in the past a few times using another minister as an example of what "Not to do". I actually defended him although I don't agree with some of his beliefs.
( I do make exceptions for the Judaizing spirit which perverts the gospel and says that Christians are sinning and dis-obeying God if we don't follow the Sabbath as outlined in the Old Covenant. It's not the people themselves - it's the deceiving spirit that is driving them that we are against. )
Originally Posted by Grace777x70
This is so true. What if people started to put up videos maligning beloved men/women of God that Jesus bled and died for like John McArthur or every time his name is mentioned - he is being attacked - just because he doesn't believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit like other believers do? What Christian walking in love and with the Lord would even consider doing something like that?
We could use our "Christian" righteous anger to say that McArthur is spreading the most vile kind of heresy and is in fact a wolf. We could show a video with a snake wrapped around him for "special effects" to further show the "truth" of his apostasy and how he is leading so many others down the wrong path.
Nobody should slander and be so malice-filled toward McArthur to do such a thing to a person that the Lord has saved and loved. ( bit sadly there are websites dedicated to McArthur )
There are actually WEBSITES dedicated to showing that the apostle Paul was a heretic too because he "conflicted" with Jesus' words.
I have said this in the past a few times using another minister as an example of what "Not to do". I actually defended him although I don't agree with some of his beliefs.
( I do make exceptions for the Judaizing spirit which perverts the gospel and says that Christians are sinning and dis-obeying God if we don't follow the Sabbath as outlined in the Old Covenant. It's not the people themselves - it's the deceiving spirit that is driving them that we are against. )
This is so true. What if people started to put up videos maligning beloved men/women of God that Jesus bled and died for like John McArthur or every time his name is mentioned - he is being attacked - just because he doesn't believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit like other believers do? What Christian walking in love and with the Lord would even consider doing something like that?
We could use our "Christian" righteous anger to say that McArthur is spreading the most vile kind of heresy and is in fact a wolf. We could show a video with a snake wrapped around him for "special effects" to further show the "truth" of his apostasy and how he is leading so many others down the wrong path.
Nobody should slander and be so malice-filled toward McArthur to do such a thing to a person that the Lord has saved and loved. ( bit sadly there are websites dedicated to McArthur )
There are actually WEBSITES dedicated to showing that the apostle Paul was a heretic too because he "conflicted" with Jesus' words.
Wise words thank you for that Grace777. Very much agree with you here. There are some issues we as believers must agree to disagree about. Healing is a big one because many of us have been supernaturally healed here on these forums. And many have not been supernaturally healed on these forums. So we must agree to disagree.
To attack a brother or sister in Christ is always wrong on all levels. And likewise proclaiming a person is not a brother and sister in Christ because they don't 100% agree with us is wrong on all levels too. As Stonesoffire has said numerous times in the Bible study forums, we have to fellowship around the foundational truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and allow the other things to be discussed in a respectful manner.
Well Stephen I believe your constant teaching against eternal security is a very hurtful, deceptive and false teaching, yet I don't shadow your every move and call you out for YOUR heresy!
Let's see if you can go a whole week of posts that do nothing but show the love of Christ you say is in you. No criticism, no anger, no condemnation. Just pure love for your brothers and sisters in Christ.
Let's see if you can go a whole week of posts that do nothing but show the love of Christ you say is in you. No criticism, no anger, no condemnation. Just pure love for your brothers and sisters in Christ.
Just this morning I heard a message that mentioned Martin Luther. That Luther said he had to preach about grace to someone or he himself would forget it. That is how difficult the concept of grace is to the human mind. Grace is unmerited unearned love and acceptance before God given freely to us because of Jesus. In our humaness., we have rejected the whole concept of grace that not only freely forgives (although many of us Christians can accept that part) Yet when it comes to the living out our Christian lives by grace through faith, many many believers have a difficult time holding on to it. And even reject it calling it easy believism and laziness on our part.
I concur with Luther. I write myself happy in my journal about Jesus and His love and grace. I type myself happy when I come here to CC and remind myself yet again of the beauty of Jesus and His grace and truth. I come here on CC and go to church on Thursday and Sunday to share and hear the Gospel of grace and truth that Jesus brought because it's so easy for me to go back into a works mindset. I listen to it on cd and on dvd and in my car and have it around at all times. So much is the realization that I'm weak without the truth actively being put in my mind.
Although it's been many many months of blessed assurance and PURE JOY., I know my flesh the world and the devil are at the door waiting for an opportunity to steal away the truth of the Word sown in my heart.
Healing as well as the gifts of the spirit are all things spiritually discerned and sadly, even after we humans have been gloriously saved., we can forget what happened to us when trials come, when sickness comes, when symptoms of sickness and defeat come.
We are housed in bits of flesh that have to be taught and ready to hear the Holy Spirit about the victory we have been given already in Christ. (that is His ministry to us., to remind us of our righteousness) We have to hear it every day or we will fall flat on our faces and be attacked and kicked while we are down by the enemy and by his cohorts.
Another reason why being with other believers who will put us in remembrance of Jesus is so vital for us. The Bible instructs us to be in the company of the brethren and that we are known by the love we have for one another. Going to church and getting into a real fellowship where we can serve and share our gifts with our communities. Coming to this christian chat site is also a blessing to add to the other ways the Bible instructs us to fellowship with like minded believers. And the ones who don't agree., we love them and agree to disagree. Amen!!
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The buck does not stop here concerning grace.
Hypergrace is only part 1 of the 5 part grace series.
1.Hypergrace.
2.Superhypergrace.
3.Superduperhypergrace.
4.Superdupermegahypergrace.
5.Superdupermegagargantuanhypergrace.
We are saved by grace through faith,so we have to have the proper perspective of faith for grace to apply.
Neglect the poor and needy,faith is lacking.
Hold unto sin,faith is lacking.
For God hates sin,and His kingdom based on love,and to not represent that rightly is to lack faith.
Hypergrace is only part 1 of the 5 part grace series.
1.Hypergrace.
2.Superhypergrace.
3.Superduperhypergrace.
4.Superdupermegahypergrace.
5.Superdupermegagargantuanhypergrace.
We are saved by grace through faith,so we have to have the proper perspective of faith for grace to apply.
Neglect the poor and needy,faith is lacking.
Hold unto sin,faith is lacking.
For God hates sin,and His kingdom based on love,and to not represent that rightly is to lack faith.
Just this morning I heard a message that mentioned Martin Luther. That Luther said he had to preach about grace to someone or he himself would forget it. That is how difficult the concept of grace is to the human mind. Grace is unmerited unearned love and acceptance before God given freely to us because of Jesus. In our humaness., we have rejected the whole concept of grace that not only freely forgives (although many of us Christians can accept that part) Yet when it comes to the living out our Christian lives by grace through faith, many many believers have a difficult time holding on to it. And even reject it calling it easy believism and laziness on our part.
I concur with Luther. I write myself happy in my journal about Jesus and His love and grace. I type myself happy when I come here to CC and remind myself yet again of the beauty of Jesus and His grace and truth. I come here on CC and go to church on Thursday and Sunday to share and hear the Gospel of grace and truth that Jesus brought because it's so easy for me to go back into a works mindset.
Although it's been many many months of blessed assurance and PURE JOY., I know my flesh the world and the devil are at the door waiting for an opportunity to steal away the truth of the Word sown in my heart.
Healing as well as the gifts of the spirit are all things spiritually discerned and sadly, even after we humans have been gloriously saved., we can forget what happened to us when trials come, when sickness comes, when symptoms of sickness and defeat come.
We are housed in bits of flesh that have to be taught and ready to hear the Holy Spirit about the victory we have been given already in Christ. (that is His ministry to us., to remind us of our righteousness) We have to hear it every day or we will fall flat on our faces and be attacked and kicked while we are down by the enemy and by his cohorts.
Another reason why being with other believers who will put us in remembrance of Jesus is so vital for us. The Bible instructs us to be in the company of the brethren and that we are known by the love we have for one another. Going to church and getting into a real fellowship where we can serve and share our gifts with our communities. Coming to this christian chat site is also a blessing to add to the other ways the Bible instructs us to fellowship with like minded believers. And the ones who don't agree., we love them and agree to disagree. Amen!!
I concur with Luther. I write myself happy in my journal about Jesus and His love and grace. I type myself happy when I come here to CC and remind myself yet again of the beauty of Jesus and His grace and truth. I come here on CC and go to church on Thursday and Sunday to share and hear the Gospel of grace and truth that Jesus brought because it's so easy for me to go back into a works mindset.
Although it's been many many months of blessed assurance and PURE JOY., I know my flesh the world and the devil are at the door waiting for an opportunity to steal away the truth of the Word sown in my heart.
Healing as well as the gifts of the spirit are all things spiritually discerned and sadly, even after we humans have been gloriously saved., we can forget what happened to us when trials come, when sickness comes, when symptoms of sickness and defeat come.
We are housed in bits of flesh that have to be taught and ready to hear the Holy Spirit about the victory we have been given already in Christ. (that is His ministry to us., to remind us of our righteousness) We have to hear it every day or we will fall flat on our faces and be attacked and kicked while we are down by the enemy and by his cohorts.
Another reason why being with other believers who will put us in remembrance of Jesus is so vital for us. The Bible instructs us to be in the company of the brethren and that we are known by the love we have for one another. Going to church and getting into a real fellowship where we can serve and share our gifts with our communities. Coming to this christian chat site is also a blessing to add to the other ways the Bible instructs us to fellowship with like minded believers. And the ones who don't agree., we love them and agree to disagree. Amen!!
Well said.
Colossians 3:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
When we see what Christ alone has done by His grace - it will produce the faith to walk out what already is true in our new creation in Christ.
Colossians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.
And Paul said "...and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe."
Ephesians 1:19-20 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might
[SUP]20 [/SUP] which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
D
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[TD="class: yiv6614150563mcnTextContent, align: center"]He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
Romans 8:32[/TD]
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[TD="class: yiv6614150563mcnTextContent"]Removed to avoid further propagandizing a charlatan.[/TD]
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I have read and reread and reread John 5. No matter how many times I read it, it has never said that Jesus healed the multitudes at the five porches of Bethesda. How odd.
So either Jesus didn't heal every sick or disabled person he came into contact with or Joseph Prince lies. I tend to think both are true.
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[TD="class: yiv6614150563mcnTextContent, align: center"]He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
Romans 8:32[/TD]
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[TD="class: yiv6614150563mcnTextContent"]Removed to avoid further propagandizing a charlatan.[/TD]
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I have read and reread and reread John 5. No matter how many times I read it, it has never said that Jesus healed the multitudes at the five porches of Bethesda. How odd.
So either Jesus didn't heal every sick or disabled person he came into contact with or Joseph Prince lies. I tend to think both are true.
D
No matter how many times you repeat a lie, it's still a lie... which, btw, is malice.
1 Thes. 5:[FONT="]12 And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, [/FONT][FONT="]13 and to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. Be at peace among yourselves.[/FONT][FONT="]14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies. 21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.[/FONT]
1 Thes. 5:[FONT="]12 And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, [/FONT][FONT="]13 and to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. Be at peace among yourselves.[/FONT][FONT="]14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies. 21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.[/FONT]
S
well Job thought He did
and said, “Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither. The Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.” Job 1:21
no. not really Mr Prince. why does Prince get to decide Job made a mistake? God thought Job was all that to the point he trusted Job's heart would prove true so He ALLOWED the devil to do whatever he wanted to EXCEPT for taking his life
God, the Soverign ruler of all creation, gave the devil permission
now I might not have a ginormous church, but I can read the Bible for myself
ps...pointing out the truth, isn't malice. I have not called anyone a heretic or any names but swallowing an entire sermon or devotional whole, means you need to chew
I would suggest that people chew on this, and not just swallow hole
chew on what I wrote too.
you simply cannot defend the indefensible. no matter how good it sounds.
and said, “Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither. The Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.” Job 1:21
no. not really Mr Prince. why does Prince get to decide Job made a mistake? God thought Job was all that to the point he trusted Job's heart would prove true so He ALLOWED the devil to do whatever he wanted to EXCEPT for taking his life
God, the Soverign ruler of all creation, gave the devil permission
now I might not have a ginormous church, but I can read the Bible for myself
ps...pointing out the truth, isn't malice. I have not called anyone a heretic or any names but swallowing an entire sermon or devotional whole, means you need to chew
I would suggest that people chew on this, and not just swallow hole
chew on what I wrote too.
you simply cannot defend the indefensible. no matter how good it sounds.
S
whoah there! I may not be as pointed as Angela, but this devotional is indeed a badly constructed and twisted understanding of the Bible
no need for you to say things like Angela has a malice filled thought life. in fact that is just plain childish and reveals some of your nature as well. I believe you are both Christians so it is sad to see this
and now I have to go a step farther (not that it will mean anything to you but I like to be clear)
I am one of the they you are exaggerating about. Not one single time, ONE SINGLE TIME, have I EVER read where Angela posted she does not believe in God healing. That would mean she denies the record of Jesus in the gospels as well as healing as indicated anywhere in scripture because God did plenty of it in the OT as well
what exactly is the matter with you? you have started doing exactly what you accuse others of doing
Actually, no, people are NOT free to believe whatever they want but you sure do seem to be headed that way.
if we were all free to believe whatever we wanted, the Bible would have no meaning whatsoever.
no need for you to say things like Angela has a malice filled thought life. in fact that is just plain childish and reveals some of your nature as well. I believe you are both Christians so it is sad to see this
and now I have to go a step farther (not that it will mean anything to you but I like to be clear)
I am one of the they you are exaggerating about. Not one single time, ONE SINGLE TIME, have I EVER read where Angela posted she does not believe in God healing. That would mean she denies the record of Jesus in the gospels as well as healing as indicated anywhere in scripture because God did plenty of it in the OT as well
what exactly is the matter with you? you have started doing exactly what you accuse others of doing
Actually, no, people are NOT free to believe whatever they want but you sure do seem to be headed that way.
if we were all free to believe whatever we wanted, the Bible would have no meaning whatsoever.
I have said many times that I am referring to the non-essentials like healing in the way that some others do believe about healing, end days, tongues and other subjects like that.
We are free to believe on those types of things but not on the deity of Christ. That Jesus was God who came in the flesh and that we are saved by grace through faith in Him when we hear the gospel message of our sins forgiven.
If people feel it is their "Christian right" to malign and slander others in the body of Christ because of a disagreement in the non-essentials - then they can do that too...no one can stop them but the Lord Himself.
I will continue to say it is ungodly behavior no matter which side of the fence people are on in these non-essentials.
And the good news is - everyone is free to believe what they want on this as well...
We are free to believe on those types of things but not on the deity of Christ. That Jesus was God who came in the flesh and that we are saved by grace through faith in Him when we hear the gospel message of our sins forgiven.
If people feel it is their "Christian right" to malign and slander others in the body of Christ because of a disagreement in the non-essentials - then they can do that too...no one can stop them but the Lord Himself.
I will continue to say it is ungodly behavior no matter which side of the fence people are on in these non-essentials.
And the good news is - everyone is free to believe what they want on this as well...
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