THE LORD GIVES AND GIVES AND GIVES......

[Grace777x70]

You can believe what you want. I choose to believe that it is God's will for us to be healed and to be whole. Will all people be healed? No and for various reasons.

the difference between myself and those who are persuaded you are the grace guru, is that, thank you, I do NOT want to believe whatever I want and if you seek wisdom, from scripture, you will many reasons why that is so

you contradict yourself with what you have underlined but I don't suppose you will loose sleep over it

You are right - I will not lose one bit of sleep over it for various reasons.

I have no qualms about young Christians getting caught up in malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ. They are baby Christians and really don't know any better ( 2 Peter 2:1-2 )but when supposedly mature people do it - it needs to be exposed for the foul behavior that it is so that others may learn how not to behave towards others in the same way.

As per what was said is contradictory - it is along the same reality as this scripture.

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Will some perish? When we can answer that question - then we will know the answer for the fact that not all will be healed.

 

[Depleted]

I have said many times that I am referring to the non-essentials like healing in the way that some others do believe about healing, end days, tongues and other subjects like that.

We are free to believe on those types of things but not on the deity of Christ. That Jesus was God who came in the flesh and that we are saved by grace through faith in Him when we hear the gospel message of our sins forgiven.

If people feel it is their "Christian right" to malign and slander others in the body of Christ because of a disagreement in the non-essentials - then they can do that too...no one can stop them but the Lord Himself.

I will continue to say it is ungodly behavior no matter which side of the fence people are on in these non-essentials.

And the good news is - everyone is free to believe what they want on this as well...

Nice try. Not working though.

Angela has been disabled for decades. If it weren't for the Lord, she'd be dead decades ago. She knows this. Like Joi, she has learned so much from her disabilities that she too does not want the younger folks in Christ to swallow this malarkey. (And, I agree with both of them because I'm living it too.)

And yet, you did, very much attack her, (not "referring to the non-essentials like healing" as you now claim) by calling her for malice, slander, blahdeblah, like you usually do.

What you're saying is she is evil for telling it like it is about Joseph Prince, yet you are on a higher plane because you "malign and slander" her for attacking Joseph Prince.

And now all you're doing, (once again), is back-pedaling in hopes you can lure yet another fish into your net. (And to be clear, I don't think 7 is that gullible either.)

And the bad news, (at least for you), is what you said isn't true according to the scriptures I just gave to ET -- 1 Cor. 5:9-13 through 1 Cor. 6:1-11.

Are you even aware your whole "defense" stems on two things?
1. "I am better than you because I defend the WoF preachers."
2. "You're preacher isn't perfect either."

On those grounds, I can do the exact same thing about teddy bears. (I can defend them and tell anyone that nothing else on earth is perfect either.) Does that make teddy bears better, or even equal to, good theology, because I can?

You're arguments and attitude aren't working. Try a new approach! Oh, and ask forgiveness to Angela after maligning her! (Not her theology. Not her non-essentials. HER!)

 

[sevenseas]

You can believe what you want. I choose to believe that it is God's will for us to be healed and to be whole. Will all people be healed? No and for various reasons.





You are right - I will not lose one bit of sleep over it for various reasons.

I know. would not have said so otherwise

I have no qualms about young Christians getting caught up in malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ. They are baby Christians but when supposedly mature people do it - it needs to be exposed for the foul behavior that it is so that others may learn how not to behave towards others.

As per what was said is contradictory - it is along the same reality as this scripture.

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Will some perish? When we can answer that question - then we will know the answer for the fact that not all will be healed.

dig in

trench warfare is messy

I'll leave you to it

 

[Depleted]

god does take away,

he he took away davins son born In Sin

He took away sauls kigdom and handed it to david

he took away Moses chance to enter the promised land

he took away Daniels freedom, and ability to have children

what he also does is take what we deem as bad, and turn it to good,

job Oh did not make a mistake, he understood, yes it was Satan tha destroying took HS family, but a god allowed it, so in a sender, thlord gave him great blessings, and took them away, yet job will worship God anyway,

Amen! And, I hope you don't mind, but want to add one in ET style...
And he took away Job's ten children, never to be returned in his lifetime.

 

[Meggido]

dig in

trench warfare is messy

I'll leave you to it

Should I prepare another table?......think about 7 and you will get it...

 

[Depleted]

gotta spread reps EG but you deserve one here

scripture does not lie

Just did, before I saw that. (And why do I keep calling him ET? lol)

 

[Grace777x70]

Nice try. Not working though.

Angela has been disabled for decades. If it weren't for the Lord, she'd be dead decades ago. She knows this. Like Joi, she has learned so much from her disabilities that she too does not want the younger folks in Christ to swallow this malarkey. (And, I agree with both of them because I'm living it too.)

And yet, you did, very much attack her, (not "referring to the non-essentials like healing" as you now claim) by calling her for malice, slander, blahdeblah, like you usually do.

What you're saying is she is evil for telling it like it is about Joseph Prince, yet you are on a higher plane because you "malign and slander" her for attacking Joseph Prince.

And now all you're doing, (once again), is back-pedaling in hopes you can lure yet another fish into your net. (And to be clear, I don't think 7 is that gullible either.)

And the bad news, (at least for you), is what you said isn't true according to the scriptures I just gave to ET -- 1 Cor. 5:9-13 through 1 Cor. 6:1-11.

Are you even aware your whole "defense" stems on two things?
1. "I am better than you because I defend the WoF preachers."
2. "You're preacher isn't perfect either."

On those grounds, I can do the exact same thing about teddy bears. (I can defend them and tell anyone that nothing else on earth is perfect either.) Does that make teddy bears better, or even equal to, good theology, because I can?

You're arguments and attitude aren't working. Try a new approach! Oh, and ask forgiveness to Angela after maligning her! (Not her theology. Not her non-essentials. HER!)

People that slander others in the body of Christ are no different then those that live a homosexual lifestyle. They are in the same lists as works of the flesh.

When people stop slandering others in the body of Christ - I will stop bringing up this foul behavior. It is ungodly no matter how you try to make it look "legitimate".

You are free to defend this type of foul behavior all you want but I have no qualms whatsoever in exposing it for what it truly is especially when it is from supposedly mature people that are pastors and leaders.

1 Peter 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,

 

[sevenseas]

I'm sure I have not studied as much as you or others on these threads but I know something about the grace covenant I'm in.

David was a man after God's own heart AND the apple of His eye....but David didn't have an Advocate the way we do today. David had to pay for the things he did. Punishments got meated out back then. Discipline and punishments are not the same. Covenants are amazing things and I'm thankful today I'm in the new covenant of grace. I don't think about what I would have done in the days of David.

There are things God has promised would happen in these covenants and we all need to know what covenant we are in. To get them mixed up makes trying to understand the things of God very difficult. Yes, these are all heavy issues for us here to look at because we all have much at stake. Our faith and beliefs hinge on the Bible and the Holy Spirit but we each have a lot to learn in all those areas. I'm so thankful He will not give us a snake when we ask Him for help. We can have that daily expectation of good coming from Him but I've also realized we do not get things we don't believe Him for.

That was a hard lesson for me but none the less a major one that causes me to always think in the positive to have an expectation of good coming from my Father God because of Jesus.

you may be in a grace covenant but be careful where it comes from

I respect you because I know you are sincere

your answer may satisfy your own thoughts, but it does nothing for me because you do not understand what I write

and grace777 there, has gone to be untruthful by stating that if we do not believe in healing for everyone, then we just don't believe in healing. when someone gets blinders because of emotionalism, all kinds of things can be said but I appreciate your efforts at explaining although I assure I have heard it all, read it all and know exactly what you speak of

God bless you. I am no longer in that place and perhaps one day you will experience a different understanding as well

I absolutely believe God holds you and keeps you as He did for me because I know I would no longer be on planet earth if He did not.

if I am nothing at all, that is fine and in fact it is good.

I honestly and actually do know exactly what you write. There is nothing you can explain to me that I do not know about what you write of

Sadly, Prince is quite wrong and he has misled you and many others...not in everything, but you suffer loss in your understanding

I pray God's best for you and be careful of your personal relationships. yes, that is a word I believe I should say to you, whether just from myself or from the Holy Spirit I don't know, but I believe it needs saying if not right now, remember it later

 

[Meggido]

god does take away,

he he took away davins son born In Sin

He took away sauls kigdom and handed it to david

he took away Moses chance to enter the promised land

he took away Daniels freedom, and ability to have children

what he also does is take what we deem as bad, and turn it to good,

job Oh did not make a mistake, he understood, yes it was Satan tha destroying took HS family, but a god allowed it, so in a sender, thlord gave him great blessings, and took them away, yet job will worship God anyway,

Great stuff bro...
lets show them what Jesus had to go through....


Heb 5.7-10
[SUP]7 [/SUP]In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. [SUP]8[/SUP]Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.[SUP]9 [/SUP]And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, [SUP]10 [/SUP]being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.



There have been other teaching by the same teacher on this thread that has directly contradicted that Jesus ever suffered...

This is the scripture the Holy Spirit used to get us out of WOF...

 

[Grace777x70]

dig in

trench warfare is messy

I'll leave you to it

LOL..oh oh...did that activate the Calvinists?.."God is not willing for any to perish."

I hear ya. I'm leaving this thread as no good can come from it. I just expect others to be respectful of a difference of opinion in these non-essentials and to stop maligning and slandering others in the body of Christ.

There are some that believe that women should not be pastors nor teach a man - should people now be allowed to malign and slander those women pastors every time they post something?

I would defend those women pastors from being called heretics and in heresy too.

 

[sevenseas]

Just did, before I saw that. (And why do I keep calling him ET? lol)

my brother's initials? dunno LOL!

 

[sevenseas]

LOL..oh oh...did that activate the Calvinists?.."God is not willing for any to perish."

I hear ya. I'm leaving this thread as no good can come from it. I just expect others to be respectful of a difference of opinion in these non-essentials and to stop maligning and slandering others in the body of Christ.

There are some that believe that women should not be pastors nor teach a man - should people now be allowed to malign and slander those women pastors every time they post something?

I would defend those women pastors from being called heretics and in heresy too.

no idea about the Calvinist comment. I'm not and may have missed the inside joke as I don't post in those threads

I would hope God defends what I state and so should you

 

[Grace777x70]

and grace777 there, has gone to be untruthful by stating that if we do not believe in healing for everyone, then we just don't believe in healing. when someone gets blinders because of emotionalism, all kinds of things can be said but I appreciate your efforts at explaining although I assure I have heard it all, read it all and know exactly what you speak of

Here is what I "really said" and it is NOT what you said I said. Just to keep the record straight and truthful. I said that it is God's heart to want to heal us just like any good moral parent would.

In essence it boils down to this : Some believe that God wants to heal us and some don't. I choose to go by the life of the Lord Jesus Christ as He showed us the will and heart of the Father.

Others are free to disagree. I won't slander them and malign them because they believe something different.

Quote:

They disagree that the Lord wants to heal us and thus they think it is their duty to slander and exhibit malice towards those in the body of Christ that do believe God's heart is for His children to be well - just like any good moral parent would have.

 

[sevenseas]

Here is what I "really said" and it is NOT what you said I said. Just to keep the record straight and truthful. I said that it is God's heart to want to heal us just like any good moral parent would.

Quote:

They disagree that the Lord wants to heal us and thus they think it is their duty to slander and exhibit malice towards those in the body of Christ that do believe God's heart is for His children to be well - just like any good moral parent would have.

oh yeah?

well that does come across somewhat differently then, doesn't it

it is also NOT His will that any should perish but they sure nuff do

Of course He would heal all! but the mission is to save us from ourselves and that does not include perfect health

cheese whiz....sigh

so I am not the perfect reader either, eh? I will remove one star from my grade then. sorry

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Allow me to do that now....and on this OP:

Job displayed this very same attitude when he received the news that he had lost his property and children. Thinking that God was the source of his problems and not knowing that it was actually Satan who had come against him, he said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return there. The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.” (Job 1:21) Such a statement seems to honor God, but in reality, it reveals an erroneous view of our heavenly Father.

The teaching is saying this to me....

What the Bible says in Job 1.21...is not what it really says or means....
The teaching then uses scriptures in Luke 12, John 10 and 14 to prove the DOCTRINE of the teaching, not the teaching or what Job 1.21 is saying.<<<<<<doing this, is called proof texting. A proof text removes context from the teaching, because it re-enforces the proof of the pet-doctrine and not the truth of scripture



This statement is a direct contradiction to the truth of scripture of Job 1.21 because it does not agree with the doctrine being presented. this is the reason for the proof text.

The teaching then uses other scriptures to contradict Job 1.21 [bold below]

As children of God, we know what the Father’s will is for us. He is a giver, not a taker! Jesus said, “Do not fear, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom.” (Luke 12:32) It is the devil who is the thief. He comes to steal, kill and destroy. But Jesus came to give us life more abundant. (John 10:10)


scripture does interpret scripture, so this is a glaring fault...why would anyone use scripture to contradict another scripture? proof texting and pre-texting....This alone is enough to disqualify reading this teaching any further..and to claim it false.

Jesus met every need and healed every sickness brought before Him, and at the cross, He gave His own life. Never once did He take anything away from the people who came to Him. And the Bible says that whoever has seen Jesus has seen the Father. (John 14:9)<<<<<<Could the teaching be trying to implant the thought of the oneness doctrine in the teaching by referring to John 14.9?

Beloved, your heavenly Father wants you to know today that He is the one who gives you all good things. And if He has already given us heaven’s best—Jesus, “how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things”?

Once again the teaching cuts out part of a verse and thought from a whole complete passage and engages again in proof texting...the bolded portion of the verse above is only part of Romans 8.32....if we add Vs 31-39 to this, we get more context...which makes this whole teaching fall apart and proves it to be a text without context, that uses a pretext and a proof text to further a doctrine and not advance scriptural truth...

The teaching uses scripture to contradict the primary verse it dislikes the most, that being Job 1.21

Anytime Scripture is used to contradict another scripture it is not valid and therefrom can be judged as false...

This teaching is false based on this alone....the theology is not even worth discussing, because of how bad it is...

yes, that S is what I am talking about, you did not attack a person, you showed how you disagreed with something they said

 

[Grace777x70]

oh yeah?

well that does come across somewhat differently then, doesn't it

it is also NOT His will that any should perish but they sure nuff do

Of course He would heal all! but the mission is to save us from ourselves and that does not include perfect health

cheese whiz....sigh

so I am not the perfect reader either, eh? I will remove one star from my grade then. sorry

It's ok my beloved sister. It is a heated topic and the topic should be able to be discussed without the slandering of others in the body of Christ. We all need each other. Sometimes it can't be done with respect for each other because of the emotional ties to it.

We can all just state what is believed and leave it in the hands of the Lord. He will sort us all out. We only know in part and we only manifest Christ in part.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just did, before I saw that. (And why do I keep calling him ET? lol)

ET phone home

 

[joaniemarie]

I absolutely agree with you sister on this WOF or prosperity stuff and everyone will be healed IF they have enough faith. I don't like it one bit.

Further,NONE of them have been able to answer why THEIR faith isn't strong enough to heal people. And if it is, and they can, why aren't they out there every second healing people!

But there is something else going on here. I get the "we need to identify false doctrine" doctrine. But on some issues, maybe faith healing is one, we have different ideas on what is and what is not Scripturally accurate. And therefore the fairly harsh condemnation heaped on not only the doctrine, but the adherents of that doctrine, I don't think is right, or loving.

For instance, as hurtful and destructive as I believe the faith WOF healing doctrine is, I believe the heretical doctrine, pushed and fought for by MANY here, that we can lose our Salvation, meaning we HAD it at one time, TO MUCH MORE HURTFUL AND DESTRUCTIVE!

And I, and I think you, and many others here, counter that heresy in a fairly loving manner. Obviously some may not, but by and large most do.

So why does what I admit wrong doctrine on THIS issue garner such vitriol, and much of it personal to boot? Why not just give an opinion and Scripture to counter the doctrine and leave it at that?

I can only answer for myself on the issue you made about why are we who believe in healing not going out and healing people all over the world? God has not dumped a boatload of info on me to digest all at once brother Penn. I can take a spoon at a time whilst I live and move here in upstate NY. Some days I get a whole ton of blessings showered on me but as far as my understanding of all of God's handiwork, I'm sorry I can't give you a single answer as to why everyone is not healed or blessed the same at the same time in the same way.

There are those who are anointed in the area of healing but they do not work independent of the Spirit's moving. And as so many have tried to correct me on issues like praying for God to give me a Mercedes in the driveway when I have never desired to pray for a Mercedes in my driveway I have never said God has given me an anointing in this area of healing either. I'm still learning about Jesus provision for healing in my own life and I've already seen Him heal me some 50 fold already.

The thing is it takes time for God's plans to unfold. You and others who call this sort of faith; word of faith prosperity stuff,. want a pat answer that doesn't allow for that unfolding in people's lives. I've seen God unfold truths in my life that I wished could have been digested years earlier but I wouldn't have it back then. I didn't believe it but the truth was there to have but I would not take it. So I suffered.

Today I don't want to make that same giant mistake of not believing Him and having all that He wants to give me and all that Jesus has paid for me and my loved ones to have. What a waste my life was when I didn't believe!! What a mess and a wasteland of relationships that need to be healed today all because of not being willing to believe. We leave a mess when we go our own way.

So I sure HOPE we allow God to unfold His will in our lives. And that we give Him more than a few days time to do it before we shut the door on Him and all He wants to do in our lives. Because maybe to most people it just sounds tooo good to be true or too shockingly just more blessings than we can handle or better yet more than we deserve. But that is why grace is so important to start to get a hold of because we don't deserve anything yet He gave us everything.

He deals with us according to His grace not our deserving. And His grace shows out so clearly when we are weak. His grace is made perfect in our weakness. I don't ask anymore why He chose to have His great grace work out best in our weakness. Now I'm taking what He offers me and believing Him for good and not evil all the days of my life. And that is a good thing!!!!

 

[sevenseas]

ET phone home

yeah

we used to say that to him when he would hang around...he's younger than me...I have an older brother...so I am sandwich spread

 

[Grace777x70]

Before I go - here is an excellent teaching on Job for any that is interested in this area.

I truly desire that we don't have to call people out on their foul behavior when they constantly malign and slander others in the body of Christ because of the disagreements in the non-essentials. There is a much better way of walking in respect and love to those that have a difference of opinion in these areas.

[video=youtube;FSw-XFDvPqg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSw-XFDvPqg&amp;t=1759s[/video]