The State of Israel - Authentic or Counterfeit?

[J7]

Isaiah 11:
11 It shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord shall set His hand again the second time,
To recover the remnant of His people who are left,
From Assyria and Egypt,
From Pathros and Cush,

First time was after the Babylonian captivity, the second time started 14 May 1948.
From Elam and Shinar,
From Hamath and the islands of the sea.

[FONT=&quot]5 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]And the Lord will utterly destroy[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] the tongue of the sea of Egypt;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]and will wave his hand over the River[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] with his scorching wind;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]and will split it into seven channels,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] and make a way to cross on foot;

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The Nile Delta was and has been 7 channels for a long time[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[J7]

 

[Nehemiah6]

What would make it authentic? Land borders and real estate? The religion of the Phraisees (modern Judaism) or the DNA of the Hebrews?

There should have been a third poll alternative -- "Neither". The reason I say this is because the modern secular state of Israel is not the kingdom of Israel under Christ and God (which it will be in the future). The Jews who have not been converted are essentially in unbelief, and the true Messiah has been rejected by all varieties of Judaism as well as the state of Israel.

At the same time, the "resurrection" of the "state" of Israel in 1948 was a precursor to the fulfillment of Bible prophecies concerning Israel. The land occupied by the modern state of Israel is only a small fraction of what God has promised to Israel through the Abrahamic Covenant, and ultimately it will stretch from the Nile (Egypt) to the Euphrates (Iraq).

At present Messianic Jews who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Yeshua ha Mashiach) are reaching out to their fellow Jews to bring them to salvation. But it is only after the second coming of Christ that all the Jews (worldwide) will be gathered to the land of Israel and behold their true Savior. That is when they will mourn, repent, and be converted, and Israel will be a redeemed and restored nation under God and Christ. However, before that there will be "the time of Jacob's trouble" when Jews will suffer and be under attack.

 

[Denadii]

I think this is a question of great importance to the end times.

What would make it authentic? Land borders and real estate? The religion of the Phraisees (modern Judaism) or the DNA of the Hebrews?
God's acceptance? Why are the people so white, and why are the dark-skinned ones treated with contempt? How come Tel Aviv is a homosexual capital of this planet, even though that is against the Torah?

What are Christians supposed to think about it? Are we supposed to wait and see? Or are we to serve with money, warfare, and adoration?

Isn't it illegal to preach Christianity there? What are we to do about that? We complain when dictatorships have such rules, but what should our position be on that state?

Well, the Real Israel is about a hundred times larger than i.t is now. I'm looking forward to seeing it whole again

 

[Locutus]

Isa 65:12 I will destine you for the sword, And all of you will bow down to the slaughter. Because I called, but you did not answer; I spoke, but you did not hear. And you did evil in My sight And chose that in which I did not delight.”

Isa 65:15 “You will leave your name for a curse to My chosen ones, And the Lord GOD will slay you. But My servants will be called by another name.

I don't see in the bible where there is a reversal of Isa 65:15 where God's servants will be called Jews/Israel after he slew them in the war of 66-70 AD

Act 3:22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you.

Act 3:23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.’

Act 3:24 Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days.

 

[pete9]

it is AUTHENTIC. Israel is now gathered in unbelief and then they r purified during da tribulation (jacob's trouble) and then Lord will pour His spirit on them!
christians should stand with israel, she has many enemies now, the world is turning against israel. Read jerusalem post and third intifada is coming soon. Jesus bless israel!

When you say "stand with israel", do you mean engage in warfare for them, even though they are still in "unbelief"?

 

[Snoozy]

When you say "stand with israel", do you mean engage in warfare for them, even though they are still in "unbelief"?

by stand with israel i mean support them however u can it depends on what area u are in. if u are a rich man u can do charity in israel. if u are poor u can maybe only pray. if u are a politician u can help israel in political and military ways like America is doing God bless America.

 

[loveme1]

Friends beware that you are not called to stand with Israel the state... they are in rebellion and trying to bring to pass their own fulfilment of the Promise....

They are now to be grafted in by belief as we all are....


The New Covenant is through Faith in our Lord and Saviour... King of Kings...

You are deluding yourselves if you think they will not produce a king David of their own choosing....

 

[kaylagrl]

Uh, the poll is an asking of opinions. I want a vote to see where the people stand on the issue. Yeah, I am suspicious due to a variety of reasons. I didn't say that I was clueless and wanted others to instruct me. Go ahead and vote, help out with the stats.

By you OP you have your mind made up,so Im not understanding what the poll is for. I'll pass on this one but perhaps you'll find the stats you want.

 

[kaylagrl]

​Uh huh,just like that.lol

 

[kaylagrl]

I think part of the reason why she claimed you weren't asking for opinions is because a lot of the time here when people are "asking for opinions" and someone gives their opinion and it doesn't match up with theirs they attack that person.

Smart as a carrot,nothing slips by you You nailed it.

 

[Sully]

By you OP you have your mind made up,so Im not understanding what the poll is for. I'll pass on this one but perhaps you'll find the stats you want.

There's a growing debate as to who, what, and where Israel is. I suspect that is the motive. We being of the age of immense information freely accessible seem to only be accumulating more and more doubt, more questions than answers. Just my hunch.

 

[tourist]

PLEASE VOTE.

I voted authentic Pete.

 

[kaylagrl]

By you OP you have your mind made up,so Im not understanding what the poll is for. I'll pass on this one but perhaps you'll find the stats you want.

That was to be "by your OP". Too late to correct it.

 

[pete9]

Friends beware that you are not called to stand with Israel the state... they are in rebellion and trying to bring to pass their own fulfilment of the Promise....

They are now to be grafted in by belief as we all are....


The New Covenant is through Faith in our Lord and Saviour... King of Kings...

You are deluding yourselves if you think they will not produce a king David of their own choosing....

That last part is something that I never thought of. I wonder what that king will be like. And I find myself thinking that such will appear before the state is made whole.

 

[J7]

[FONT=&quot]Go to the Church and speak to them..........(ironic that Tel-Aviv is the queer capital of the world)

4 He said to me: Mortal, go to the house of Israel and speak my very words to them. 5 For you are not sent to a people of obscure speech and difficult language, but to the house of Israel— 6 not to many peoples of obscure speech and difficult language, whose words you cannot understand. Surely, if I sent you to them, they would listen to you. 7 But the house of Israel will not listen to you, for they are not willing to listen to me; because all the house of Israel have a hard forehead and a stubborn heart. 8 See, I have made your face hard against their faces, and your forehead hard against their foreheads. 9 Like the hardest stone, harder than flint, I have made your forehead; do not fear them or be dismayed at their looks, for they are a rebellious house. 10 He said to me: Mortal, all my words that I shall speak to you receive in your heart and hear with your ears; 11 then go to the exiles, to your people, and speak to them. Say to them, “Thus says the Lord God”; whether they hear or refuse to hear.[/FONT]
[h=3]Ezekiel at the River Chebar[/h][FONT=&quot]12 Then the spirit lifted me up, and as the glory of the Lord rose[a] from its place, I heard behind me the sound of loud rumbling; 13 it was the sound of the wings of the living creatures brushing against one another, and the sound of the wheels beside them, that sounded like a loud rumbling. 14 The spirit lifted me up and bore me away; I went in bitterness in the heat of my spirit, the hand of the Lord being strong upon me. 15 I came to the exiles at Tel-abib, who lived by the river Chebar.[b] And I sat there among them, stunned, for seven days.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 At the end of seven days, the word of the Lord came to me: 17 Mortal, I have made you a sentinel for the house of Israel; whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me. 18 If I say to the wicked, “You shall surely die,” and you give them no warning, or speak to warn the wicked from their wicked way, in order to save their life, those wicked persons shall die for their iniquity; but their blood I will require at your hand. 19 But if you warn the wicked, and they do not turn from their wickedness, or from their wicked way, they shall die for their iniquity; but you will have saved your life. 20 Again, if the righteous turn from their righteousness and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before them, they shall die; because you have not warned them, they shall die for their sin, and their righteous deeds that they have done shall not be remembered; but their blood I will require at your hand. 21 If, however, you warn the righteous not to sin, and they do not sin, they shall surely live, because they took warning; and you will have saved your life.[/FONT]
[h=3]Ezekiel Isolated and Silenced[/h][FONT=&quot]22 Then the hand of the Lord was upon me there; and he said to me, Rise up, go out into the valley, and there I will speak with you. 23 So I rose up and went out into the valley; and the glory of the Lord stood there, like the glory that I had seen by the river Chebar; and I fell on my face. 24 The spirit entered into me, and set me on my feet; and he spoke with me and said to me: Go, shut yourself inside your house. 25 As for you, mortal, cords shall be placed on you, and you shall be bound with them, so that you cannot go out among the people; 26 and I will make your tongue cling to the roof of your mouth, so that you shall be speechless and unable to reprove them; for they are a rebellious house. 27 But when I speak with you, I will open your mouth, and you shall say to them, “Thus says the Lord God”; let those who will hear, hear; and let those who refuse to hear, refuse; for they are a rebellious house.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[Laish]

Lol the Holy handgrenade . Nice
Blessings
Bill

 

[MattforJesus]

I think this is a question of great importance to the end times.

What would make it authentic? Land borders and real estate? The religion of the Phraisees (modern Judaism) or the DNA of the Hebrews?
God's acceptance? Why are the people so white, and why are the dark-skinned ones treated with contempt? How come Tel Aviv is a homosexual capital of this planet, even though that is against the Torah?

What are Christians supposed to think about it? Are we supposed to wait and see? Or are we to serve with money, warfare, and adoration?

Isn't it illegal to preach Christianity there? What are we to do about that? We complain when dictatorships have such rules, but what should our position be on that state?

I would not worry about it for it will all be worked out,and put back to the norm as per Israel when she prospered in the Old Testament,only better.

God said He is going to gather all the Jews from out of the Gentile nations,and put them back on their land,and leave none of them left in the nations.

God will give the world 7 years to have their way,and cause all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,so He can end this sin business on earth,for God will not give up on the world,until they give up on Him,and bring Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

The man of sin will establish peace in the Middle East,which will pave the way for all Jews to go back to the land of Israel,and the Gentile nations will come together,and say,Peace and safety,which they will try to achieve peace on earth,and the Jews and the Gentiles will be separated.

The Jews will split Jerusalem with the Palestinians,and the Jews will rebuild their temple with no hassle from the Palestinians.

Israel is blinded in part,until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in,and so all Israel shall be saved.

Israel is blinded in part for they acknowledge the Old Testament,but not the New,for the majority,but Israel as a nation must come to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah.

Until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in,when salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles.

And so all Israel shall be saved,from physical attack after the 7 years period,and physical Israel will become spiritual.

During the first half of the 7 years period,salvation is available to the Gentiles,and Israel is blinded in part,so they will go back to animal sacrifices.

At the middle of the 7 years period the man of sin steps in to their temple,and claims to be God and their Messiah.

The man of sin addresses the world that he harnessed the power of nature,and obtained power,and says there is no personal God to help mankind,and all who do not love the truth will follow him.

When the world takes the mark of the beast then salvation is no longer available to the world,and the fulness of the Gentiles will be come in.

God will send 2 witnesses to Israel to turn them to the truth for the last half of the 7 years period.

After the 7 years period the man of sin,and the world attack Israel,and Jesus comes with all His saints,and defeats the world,and saves Israel,and the kingdom on earth will be restored to the Jews.

It does not matter what goes on in Israel,for it will be all straightened out in due time,and the true Jews will all go there.

If there is imposters there now,confused as to their identity,there would be true Jews there for this fact.

God said as birds flying He will take control of Jerusalem,which is Israeli fighter pilots,as they paved the way to win the 6 day war,and take control of Jerusalem.

God would only use Jews to do this since it is His plan to restore the kingdom to them,and His working with them,or so it would seem.

There may be imposters in Israel,but there would be true Jews also,but eventually all the Jews,who are actually Jews,will come from out of the nations and go back to Israel as decreed by God that He will do this,for He said He will bring the whole house of Israel,the house of Jacob,all twelve tribes,and bring them back to Israel,and leave none of them left in the nations.

Whatever happens in Israel now will all be straightened out,whatever needs to be straightened out,and the Jews on their land in the truth in the future.

 

[Dino246]

... What would make it authentic? Land borders and real estate? The religion of the Phraisees (modern Judaism) or the DNA of the Hebrews? God's acceptance? Why are the people so white, and why are the dark-skinned ones treated with contempt? How come Tel Aviv is a homosexual capital of this planet, even though that is against the Torah?

Much of what ancient Israel did was "against the Torah" so that isn't a valid rationale.

As your question does not clarify the sense in which you consider modern Israel to be counterfeit (and yes, your opinion is apparent from your opening post), I will not be answering it. Israel is an authentic state in the sense that the US, Nigeria, and Thailand are authentic states.

What are Christians supposed to think about it?

Christians are to use the brains God gave them, just as they are to do on every other subject not directly addressed in Scripture. There is no "right" answer to this question.

 

[Dino246]

When you say "stand with israel", do you mean engage in warfare for them, even though they are still in "unbelief"?

Israel has been the object of more resolutions by the UN than all other nations, all of them restrictive. Israel is surrounded by hostile neighbours, most of which want to wipe it from the map. Genesis 12:3 still stands.