Does God heal?

[laura_charlotte]

Ah! Now we're learning.

Thanks. They were points that needed to be made in an area where I so often see Christians who lack understanding in the nature of prayer and the concept of faith. We're supposed to be inspiring others to the Lord, putting in a half hearted prayer and then turning around with no faith via anger, doubt and writing situations off as hopeless both shows and puts absolutely no faith in the Lord and His works at all.

When I've had family members been significantly ill, as much as my flesh might feel afraid I don't give in to the enemy at all. I backup my prayers with thoughts and practices of faith long before I've ever seen any change and say out aloud "I believe God is going to turn this situation around!" Thankyou Lord for your help, you're so amazing!" Anytime the enemy came at me with doubt, I didn't get angry I had hope. I didn't say a half hearted prayer to the Lord and then write it off as a situation where no help could be received and it was all a no hope anyway so I may as well go away and be miserable. That does nothing for the situation nor shows our faith in the Lord. Instead, I rebuked him with those thoughts of faith, THAT is having and practicing faith in the lord and trusting in His works with our prayers and petitions.

 

[Denadii]

Thanks. They were points that needed to be made in an area where I so often see Christians who lack understanding in the nature of prayer and the concept of faith. We're supposed to be inspiring others to the Lord, putting in a half hearted prayer and then turning around with no faith via anger, doubt and writing situations off as hopeless both shows and puts absolutely no faith in the Lord and His works at all.

When I've had family members been significantly ill, as much as my flesh might feel afraid I don't give in to the enemy at all. I backup my prayers with thoughts and practices of faith long before I've ever seen any change and say out aloud "I believe God is going to turn this situation around!" Thankyou Lord for your help, you're so amazing!" Anytime the enemy came at me with doubt, I didn't get angry I had hope. I didn't say a half hearted prayer to the Lord and then write it off as a situation where no help could be received and it was all a no hope anyway so I may as well go away and be miserable. That does nothing for the situation nor shows our faith in the Lord. Instead, I rebuked him with those thoughts of faith, THAT is having and practicing faith in the lord and trusting in His works with our prayers and petitions.

Denadii nods. We're all in a learning curve here. That's why we're in this world. To get to know our God. and knowing Him, to glorify Him. We glorify Him by trusting that He'll do as he says and being obediently used of Him. When we pass out of this classroom, we'll go into the next one where we'll learn how to reign with him over all creation. The thing is....We're sooo smart that we have to learn line upon line, precept on precept, here a little there a little.....

 

[sevenseas]

I was angry only because he didn't heal her at that time but upon more contemplation I realized he sees the bigger picture not me. Yes i was worried yes I was confused yes I was a little angry at first that he didn't heal her or rather I suppose I was more angry that here was this women suffering intensely and I could do nothing but cry and pray for her. But miracles healing and prayer are not dependent on how we are doing emotionally and neither is our faith, it was my faith in him that mattered not the faith I had that the answer would be yes. David himself would sometimes cry out to him in frustration yet did that affect God's workings? no it didn't. Like David I am honest with god even if I am agitated with him however my faith is not measured on the answer of the prayer itself it is measured on how much i believe in him.

You can say I was not having faith but I do not hide what I feel from God I am completely honest with him and if prayer or our faith is affected merely by us being honest with him then it sounds like we cannot express ourselves to him if we want to see a miracle. Sometimes it takes more faith to ask and not receive than it does to ask and receive

exactly Blain

you are being told that while you had faith, your atitude was all wrong and so it was YOUR fault after all, the woman was not healed

that gives me the creeps

no matter how they want to disguise it, WOF ALWAYS blames the person praying because if they don't, they will have to blame their own theology and that would be a major life crisis that might engender psychiatric care for some. I'm not making fun, I've seen a few things along the way. frankly, I think a person is deluded to keep insisting God ALWAYS heals and it is just as bad to say that God ALWAYS WANTS TO HEAL. that puts the blame solidly on the individual and destroys the faith of manhy

I have my own ideas about why people are not healed every time but I'll keep them between myself and God as I pray and trust He hears as the Bible says

not bad enough you went through what you did, not to mention the nerve pain the woman was suffering because it is my understanding that nerve pain is the worst and the only thing I know about that is a toothache which I guess pretty much all of us have had at one time or another

I want to say to you, do not be moved by this criticism and blaming or feel any guilt. I do not have the impression that you are, but I am saying it anyways.

In post 64, Denadii give the following verse as a proof of faith for healing:

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which workethby love.
Galatians 5:6 (NIV)

this is totally taken out of context and this chapter in Galatians is no more a proof text for healing than a gas station is for making ice cream. if you are familiar with Galatians or if you read the book, you will easily see that

look at the verse in CONTEXT, we can see this:

Freedom in Christ

5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? 8 That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9 “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.”

Galatians was written to COUNTER error in the church at Galatia. See how the WOF crowd rips things out of context and says there is your proof

You can say I was not having faith but I do not hide what I feel from God I am completely honest with him and if prayer or our faith is affected merely by us being honest with him then it sounds like we cannot express ourselves to him if we want to see a miracle. Sometimes it takes more faith to ask and not receive than it does to ask and receive

there is more truth in what you say above, then an entire book full of WOF nonsense, lies and half truths




I am sure you do not need me to preach at you but I write this as much for anyone else as for myself because of the error of WOF, the accusations it levies and the unforgivable twisting of the word

 

[Denadii]

exactly Blain

you are being told that while you had faith, your atitude was all wrong and so it was YOUR fault after all, the woman was not healed

that gives me the creeps

no matter how they want to disguise it, WOF ALWAYS blames the person praying because if they don't, they will have to blame their own theology and that would be a major life crisis that might engender psychiatric care for some. I'm not making fun, I've seen a few things along the way. frankly, I think a person is deluded to keep insisting God ALWAYS heals and it is just as bad to say that God ALWAYS WANTS TO HEAL. that puts the blame solidly on the individual and destroys the faith of manhy

I have my own ideas about why people are not healed every time but I'll keep them between myself and God as I pray and trust He hears as the Bible says

not bad enough you went through what you did, not to mention the nerve pain the woman was suffering because it is my understanding that nerve pain is the worst and the only thing I know about that is a toothache which I guess pretty much all of us have had at one time or another

I want to say to you, do not be moved by this criticism and blaming or feel any guilt. I do not have the impression that you are, but I am saying it anyways.

In post 64, Denadii give the following verse as a proof of faith for healing:

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which workethby love.
Galatians 5:6 (NIV)

this is totally taken out of context and this chapter in Galatians is no more a proof text for healing than a gas station is for making ice cream. if you are familiar with Galatians or if you read the book, you will easily see that

look at the verse in CONTEXT, we can see this:

Freedom in Christ

5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? 8 That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9 “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.”

Galatians was written to COUNTER error in the church at Galatia. See how the WOF crowd rips things out of context and says there is your proof



there is more truth in what you say above, then an entire book full of WOF nonsense, lies and half truths




I am sure you do not need me to preach at you but I write this as much for anyone else as for myself because of the error of WOF, the accusations it levies and the unforgivable twisting of the word

It's really sad when know nothings like you spread your vitriolic slop everywhere, it does nothing but trip up people who honestly want to learn something good. I think you need to get into the Word and learn some truth before you start spreading your poison Sevenseas. You're like a harpy always looking to spread your hate and poison.

 

[Magenta]

I wonder if anyone has noticed? Every single thread I look at, there is little scriture shared but a lot of anger and strife is shared instead. I wonder why? Yes.....I'm no less guilty than anyone else.

There have been a number of threads on it recently...

How sad.....

Indeed... .

 

[Denadii]

It's really sad when know nothings like you spread your vitriolic slop everywhere, it does nothing but trip up people who honestly want to learn something good. I think you need to get into the Word and learn some truth before you start spreading your poison Sevenseas. You're like a harpy always looking to spread your hate and poison.

sevenseas has her own ideas why people don't get healed...That I believe. But none of her ideas are from the Word! She spout lies, apostasy and calls it truth spoken in love. Sevenseas you are deceived. You do no even understand the concept of love or truth. I strongly suggest you get on your knees at Jesus feet, shut up and learn from Him. Not from your churchianity friends

 

[shittim]

"Speak to the mountain" means speak to the problem about G-d, not speak to G-d about the problem.
Stir up the spirit that is within you, that you received when you accepted Christ and He came to dwell within you, not just on you or with you as did the prophets in the old testament. Then speak to the "mountain" or problem about G-d, such as pain be gone in Jesus Name, there is no name in the universe as powerful as Jesus Name.

 

[Depleted]

You know last night the ambulance and firefighters came to my house because a lady who is staying with us has very severe nerve pain along with other medical problems that cause her pain, she takes very heavy sleeping medication and also very heavy pain killers but she didn't have any last night and so I come downstairs to what sounds like screaming bloody murder and shouts of utter agony and I see her thrashing about and screaming in pain but she is so zonked out from her sleeping medicine that she won't wake up she just keeps screaming and thrashing about in pain.

There was nothing I could do but sit there cry and worry about her as the ambulances were on their way no prayer i spoke could do anything for her and I honestly was angry with God saying to him this is why I wish you gave me the gift of healing. I cannot stand to see others in pain and suffer and especially so at this kind of level not being able to do anything for them, I don't understand him sometimes like why he would not heal her or at least use me to do it but even though it was hard I simply trusted he knew what he was doing.

Does God heal? yes. Does he do it when we ask? not always. is it confusing why he allows others to suffer so greatly while you sit there feeling useless only able to cry and pray for them? HECK YES. But you see it wasn't that I was lacking in faith it wasn't anything hindering that didn't allow her to be healed sometimes even if it hurts even it seems like it's the obvious right choice his will does not always mean what we think it does and as confusing agitating and sad as it might be trusting him is vital. For all I know he is allowing her to go through this to use her later on in life, but last night was living proof for me that sometimes we can have all the faith in the world but that doesn't mean that healing will happen at that moment

Unrelated to post/poll. Just something that might, (or might not), ease your mind.

For the first 31 days John was in the hospital, he was heavily sedated. (One of the nurses told me they were using the same drug Michael Jackson was on that killed him. Not much comfort there. ) In the following two weeks, he was less sedated, but, when you're on a ventilator they sedate you to stop you from trying to yank it out.

I visited him every day. He saw me and listened to me 75% of the time. Since he couldn't talk, but I could see he desperately wanted something, we spent 15 minutes first playing 20 questions, (Is it outside the room? No. Is it in the room? Yes.) And then Hot and Cold. (Am I getting hot? Yes. Hotter? No. Hotter. Yes.) All that until I landed next to the sink. He was thirsty! Worse yet, I couldn't give him anything for his thirst. And I saw that look too.

I saw him grimace in pain. I saw him wreathing in pain. The worse was knowing he was crying, but he doesn't cry like normal people. No tears. His face gets red and he shakes like people do when crying, but I had to spend 10 minutes convincing a nurse it hurt too much for him to keep sitting. (Dang annoying too, since those nurses kept telling me how good he was at handling pain, since he was having that heart attack for FOUR days. Yeesh!)

I saw the pain. He saw me seeing the pain. It was as horrible as last night was for you.

BUT, (and here comes the good stuff), he has no memories of those four days. He doesn't have memories from the two days before that. (We were supposed to go shopping together for turkey for Thanksgiving, but he wanted to wait, because it takes up a lot of room in the fridge.) His first vague memory is a PT named Joe being nice to him and getting someone to put him back in bed, despite the order that he was supposed to sit in that chair for an hour. (I thought his pain was in his back, since he broke his back decades ago. Wrong. It was in his hips.) His second memory was hearing David Bowie died and trying to tell me despite still not being able to talk. (I had a sheet with the alphabet by then, but didn't know he had lost too much muscle to point to the right letter. I had P-O-W-I figured out before I realized the P was a B. Thank God, I already knew Bowie died. lol)

He was in severe pain, but thankfully the sleeping drugs erased his memory of that pain. It is possible God has done the same thing for that woman. I'm forever stuck with the images of him being in pain and me being helpless to stop it. BUT, God did honor my prayer. It was God's will that John would get better and not remember the worst. He just did that in a way I never expected him to do it. (I expected instant miracle or quick death. He gave us long-recuperation back to pretty-good health instead.)

 

[Depleted]

Personally I don't think you were lacking faith either. You have just as much faith as anyone else. So what was missing? God, our Father said. "My people are destroyed because of lack of knowledge. So Blain, ask Him to forgive you for getting frustrated with Him and ask Him what was missing. Was it you? Was it the Lady? But it definitely was not a lack of faith. All Christians have all the gifts when needed. Lack of knowledge can kill.

Oi vey! Now it's not faith, it's knowledge that heals? Was God unknowledgeable at the time, so needed Blain's or an unconscious woman's knowledge?

 

[Depleted]

The fact of the matter is we have been healed for the last two thousand years. Its already done. By Jesus stripes we were healed. 1 Pete 2:24 So does God heal? Yes! Every single time. If we don't see healing, its us that are missing something. There is NO precedent in the bible showing God refusing to heal anybody. Where did He change?

Actually, there is, but it doesn't fit the god you've created.

 

[Depleted]

This totally negates the prayer. There is no point claiming you put your trust and faith in the Lord and praying to Him and then turning around in the next breath you draw, worrying, being angry with Him and not trust Him.

The whole idea is that when you put your faith and trust in anyone, including our Lord, you turn it over to them. You don't keep running back demanding, distrusting, being angry - once you pray, you put it in His hands and you claim that peace. "I have prayed, I love you Lord, thankyou for working in this situation, I know You'll work it for the best, In Jesus Name!" and you go on about your life with peace not trying to do the work that you've asked Him to do. Show your faith and trust in Jesus by 1) believing in Him 2) not thinking that He can't or won't do the job properly 3) not believing you can do the job better than Him 4) not being angry He hasn't done it in your way or timing.

What I'm hearing:

I know better than you or God.

 

[Depleted]

Ah! Now we're learning.

Yup, two angry know-it-alls proving they know nothing.

(We've already learned that though.)

 

[mj007]

Worrying didn't heal anyone, yet most people think it is important. Being positive, being joyous, being alive around someone who is ill, has more potential to allow healing to occur.

There is an expression, worried sick, there is not one, worried well. You not only make yourself ill with worry, but it pollutes the sterile surroundings a sick person needs to be in, for God to be present.

 

[sevenseas]

sevenseas has her own ideas why people don't get healed...That I believe. But none of her ideas are from the Word! She spout lies, apostasy and calls it truth spoken in love. Sevenseas you are deceived. You do no even understand the concept of love or truth. I strongly suggest you get on your knees at Jesus feet, shut up and learn from Him. Not from your churchianity friends

\
you do not seem able to handle what is actually truth

I posted the one single verse you posted IN context and rather than deal with that, you make personal comments

and that is what people do when they cannot supply an answer for their heresies

wof is a damnable heresy

 

[sevenseas]

Oi vey! Now it's not faith, it's knowledge that heals? Was God unknowledgeable at the time, so needed Blain's or an unconscious woman's knowledge?

he is practically trolling at this point and I guess it may have reached trolling

 

[laura_charlotte]

Worrying didn't heal anyone, yet most people think it is important. Being positive, being joyous, being alive around someone who is ill, has more potential to allow healing to occur.

There is an expression, worried sick, there is not one, worried well. You not only make yourself ill with worry, but it pollutes the sterile surroundings a sick person needs to be in, for God to be present.

This is fantastic, it enunciates the problem in so many christian's journey through life when they're being faced with what the enemy is throwing at them.

There was nothing I could do but sit there cry and worry about her as the ambulances were on their way no prayer i spoke could do anything for her and I honestly was angry with God saying to him this is why I wish you gave me the gift of healing.

Here's a message that I think would really help you in those situations and illustrates my aforementioned points so well:

[video=youtube;d68VlC1fiYw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d68VlC1fiYw&ab_channel=JoyceMeyerMinistrie s[/video]

 

[Depleted]

It's really sad when know nothings like you spread your vitriolic slop everywhere, it does nothing but trip up people who honestly want to learn something good. I think you need to get into the Word and learn some truth before you start spreading your poison Sevenseas. You're like a harpy always looking to spread your hate and poison.

You have strange concepts of "people who honestly want to learn something good."

And the words that trip you up are
-- people
-- honestly
-- learn
-- good

Let me clarify these words for you.

Blain is a people. He just went through a tough night both praying for someone and watching her helplessly in pain. But, what do you do to "help" him? Deliver your personal, unrelated-to-the-Bible tripe.

Honestly -- You kind of have to know what honest means to get the adverb form of honestly.
A. You aren't being honest. You are jackhammering someone you think is inferior to you. And, I've seen used-cars salesmen trying to sell off a lemon who are more honest than you.
B. By your very statement, you imply that Blain is the one who wants honesty. He is. You aren't giving it to him. You're preaching a line of bull so long it would stretch clear across the equator line. Blain is honest. He happily admits he doesn't know everything, but he never lies. He IS honest.

Learn -- implication was Blain wanted to learn from you. Maybe he would, if you had anything worthwhile to teach. BUT, did you ask Blain if he wanted to learn from you? No! Did he want to learn from you? I don't know, but he never did, so kind of a mute point.

Good -- God is good. Learning is good. Honesty is good. This line of bull you're passing out like air? Not good! Pure bunk.

And the worst kind of bunk, because no one asked, no one wanted to know, but you think you're so important that you have to "learn" everyone what you believe whether we want to learn it or not.

So, even your defense for your actions is pure bunk.

YOU are the one harping. You are the one spreading manure. Seven and I are just clarifying how much junk is coming out of you... each and every time your fingers decide to type! We get that. When will you?

 

[Depleted]

Worrying didn't heal anyone, yet most people think it is important. Being positive, being joyous, being alive around someone who is ill, has more potential to allow healing to occur.

There is an expression, worried sick, there is not one, worried well. You not only make yourself ill with worry, but it pollutes the sterile surroundings a sick person needs to be in, for God to be present.

Does that mean God is incapable of healing unless Man allows him?

 

[laura_charlotte]

We're all in a learning curve here. That's why we're in this world. To get to know our God. and knowing Him, to glorify Him. We glorify Him by trusting that He'll do as he says and being obediently used of Him.

Fantastic word!

 

[sevenseas]

Worrying didn't heal anyone, yet most people think it is important. Being positive, being joyous, being alive around someone who is ill, has more potential to allow healing to occur.

There is an expression, worried sick, there is not one, worried well. You not only make yourself ill with worry, but it pollutes the sterile surroundings a sick person needs to be in, for God to be present.

well, maybe read the Psalms and discover where David said that even if he made his bed in Sheol, God would be there

our actions, attitudes or bascially anything at all, are not an obstacle to God. He rent the curtain in the temple from top to the bottom

He made a way when there was no way. ignorant people, who twist the word or insert human reasoning before God, the omnipotent, omnipresent ruler of all, who was and is and is to come,

should find proper teachers and study the word so that they can give a proper and godly answer that is fitting for those who need one

your response is not biblical