" Be not deceived" some scripture
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I have found that to obey Jesus will automatically make the 10 commandments something we obey with a glad Heart, something we enjoy something we embrace because His word fixes the Heart issue. the problem has always been
following the Lie....and consumning the Knowledge of evil....
Genesis 3:4-6 "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Just ten generations later...
Genesis 6:5 "And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
God floods the world and destroys man but for noah and his family in order to preserve us.
the ongoing problem
Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
God begins promising a solution found in the messiah alone.
ezekiel 36:26 "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."
Jesus explains the issue
matthew 15:19-20 "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
explains the solution
John 15:3-10 "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. [FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif].....verse 7[/FONT] If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love"
and finally He suffered and died in order to win Our Hearts By the expression of the greatest Love, laying Down His perfect Life for ours that was lost to a few years of mortality all because of sin. then He provided all we need to act upom the way He has made for us Glory to God for solving the issue man caused by following a single Lie way back in eden and ruining our God given Hearts of goodness....Yet He Has now restored that through the Word of Jesus Christ. and certified it by the shedding of His own Blood, and also given us freely all we need to walk Home having His companionship, His patience, mercy and provision, His joy and victory. He has given us a choice to walk out of Our dungeon in fact He has already torn the doors of our cell from its hinges, and called us out into the freedom and Light...yet if a prisoner refuses to stand and walk outside because He is more confortable in His cell.......the prison will soon be engulfed in flames and there will be no escape left. Here and Now, today is the day of salvation One day the open door will be shut and the prison will be consumned in flaming fire.
Now is the time to stand and follow the Savior and redeemer so that we do not perish a prisoner when we are called to be free.
following the Lie....and consumning the Knowledge of evil....
Genesis 3:4-6 "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Just ten generations later...
Genesis 6:5 "And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
God floods the world and destroys man but for noah and his family in order to preserve us.
the ongoing problem
Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
God begins promising a solution found in the messiah alone.
ezekiel 36:26 "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."
Jesus explains the issue
matthew 15:19-20 "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
explains the solution
John 15:3-10 "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. [FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif].....verse 7[/FONT] If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love"
and finally He suffered and died in order to win Our Hearts By the expression of the greatest Love, laying Down His perfect Life for ours that was lost to a few years of mortality all because of sin. then He provided all we need to act upom the way He has made for us Glory to God for solving the issue man caused by following a single Lie way back in eden and ruining our God given Hearts of goodness....Yet He Has now restored that through the Word of Jesus Christ. and certified it by the shedding of His own Blood, and also given us freely all we need to walk Home having His companionship, His patience, mercy and provision, His joy and victory. He has given us a choice to walk out of Our dungeon in fact He has already torn the doors of our cell from its hinges, and called us out into the freedom and Light...yet if a prisoner refuses to stand and walk outside because He is more confortable in His cell.......the prison will soon be engulfed in flames and there will be no escape left. Here and Now, today is the day of salvation One day the open door will be shut and the prison will be consumned in flaming fire.
Now is the time to stand and follow the Savior and redeemer so that we do not perish a prisoner when we are called to be free.
Grace777x70: My short testimony of this topic:
Even when I was a new Christian I read Galatians 5:19-21 as in the introduction to this topic, as this was for me. I began lining up my sins with the list of sins in this scripture. I wanted to stay in the Kingdom at all costs.. I was sensitive to sin, as now, and I just did not want to be counted as one who even committed any of those sins in my life, at any time. As you pointed out correctly, in I Corinthians and there are other passages of scripture, I realized that I was really confusing myself. I was already separated (sanctified) and justified in righteousness through our Lord Jesus Christ. I was repenting of sin on the one hand knowing my sins were already forgiven, and still 'looking back' as if I was still an unbeliever. It took me several years to kick this self-defeating habit that weighed me down unnecessarily.
In all this, I believe a Christian who does consequently commit one of these grievance sins listed, should not make it a lifestyle of sin, and God will surely discipline him/her for it. Sincere repentance is always required to the degree of sin - or separation that it has caused. It should prove a blessing and spiritual growth in the long run.
In Christ, Always
Even when I was a new Christian I read Galatians 5:19-21 as in the introduction to this topic, as this was for me. I began lining up my sins with the list of sins in this scripture. I wanted to stay in the Kingdom at all costs.. I was sensitive to sin, as now, and I just did not want to be counted as one who even committed any of those sins in my life, at any time. As you pointed out correctly, in I Corinthians and there are other passages of scripture, I realized that I was really confusing myself. I was already separated (sanctified) and justified in righteousness through our Lord Jesus Christ. I was repenting of sin on the one hand knowing my sins were already forgiven, and still 'looking back' as if I was still an unbeliever. It took me several years to kick this self-defeating habit that weighed me down unnecessarily.
In all this, I believe a Christian who does consequently commit one of these grievance sins listed, should not make it a lifestyle of sin, and God will surely discipline him/her for it. Sincere repentance is always required to the degree of sin - or separation that it has caused. It should prove a blessing and spiritual growth in the long run.
In Christ, Always
never suprised by your circles bruce never suprised at all One verse doesnt exclude any of the others, its just what you have been taught by a guy whos seeling His newest book. the real truth is found in Believing the Word of God as He set it forth, not explaining how nothing means whats very clearly there same paul who said saved by Grace makes this abundantly Clear BECAUSE Jesus made it clear. written to the church, by an apostle of the Church, nothing to do with the Mosaic Law ( which never was punished by hell to begin with nor did it offer eternal Life)
romas 2 ...But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: ( to every man according thier deeds)8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; (<< Jew , gentile no difference all men )10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God."
Plainly set forth not only here by paul but throughout His letters, and like you have done for over a year now, always trying to explain what applies and doesnt from the gog in you. its a lie. until you accept the truth about it according to Gods Word, you will never come into what the Bible says believers Have. Obedience to Jesus Christ is not an option, the gopel is not the law 2.0 lol none of those heretical teachings jp has infiltrated your mind with are true they are the opposite of truth, from the opposite spirit of subtle and craftiness. " surely sin will not cause you to die pshh thats a farce God said it yeah but listen to me my message sounds way better than Gods Word trust me dear friend......says the serpent before He coils around the victim and crushes His Bones.
Know your enemy friend. anyone who is telling you that God doesnt get it or that Jesus Christ the Lord has it wrong or incomplete or what He says of everything is not applicable to you they are deceiving you. Jesus is the truth, His word is the truth, His apostles knew that and shared it with the World as they were commanded to do...im so very glad they didnt believe the gog because they would have never obeyed His commandments to Go teach the world to Obey His commands as He commanded them just before He went to sit on His throne next to God.
yet, they knew His truth and obeyed Because they actually Believed Jesus, they understood He was the Only way because He said it. they understood that Grace doesnt mean sins punishment no longer applies ( like jp teaches) only the punishment and guilt of your ongoing sin was put to death, thats Why paul makes clear " shall we sin because were under Grace? GOD FORBID. do you not Know you are slaves to whom you obey? whether sin unto death? or obedience unto righteousness?"
Shall we sin? <<< thats directly about what you do. because of Grace? GOD FORBID! you are slaves to whom you obey whether you obey sin or obedience. plain stuff is plain stuff. no one needs to have explainations that carry them from Gods Word to make a mega pastor author rich. take care buddy the sircle with you never goes anywhere though im sure you see it the same way.
romas 2 ...But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: ( to every man according thier deeds)8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; (<< Jew , gentile no difference all men )10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God."
Plainly set forth not only here by paul but throughout His letters, and like you have done for over a year now, always trying to explain what applies and doesnt from the gog in you. its a lie. until you accept the truth about it according to Gods Word, you will never come into what the Bible says believers Have. Obedience to Jesus Christ is not an option, the gopel is not the law 2.0 lol none of those heretical teachings jp has infiltrated your mind with are true they are the opposite of truth, from the opposite spirit of subtle and craftiness. " surely sin will not cause you to die pshh thats a farce God said it yeah but listen to me my message sounds way better than Gods Word trust me dear friend......says the serpent before He coils around the victim and crushes His Bones.
Know your enemy friend. anyone who is telling you that God doesnt get it or that Jesus Christ the Lord has it wrong or incomplete or what He says of everything is not applicable to you they are deceiving you. Jesus is the truth, His word is the truth, His apostles knew that and shared it with the World as they were commanded to do...im so very glad they didnt believe the gog because they would have never obeyed His commandments to Go teach the world to Obey His commands as He commanded them just before He went to sit on His throne next to God.
yet, they knew His truth and obeyed Because they actually Believed Jesus, they understood He was the Only way because He said it. they understood that Grace doesnt mean sins punishment no longer applies ( like jp teaches) only the punishment and guilt of your ongoing sin was put to death, thats Why paul makes clear " shall we sin because were under Grace? GOD FORBID. do you not Know you are slaves to whom you obey? whether sin unto death? or obedience unto righteousness?"
Shall we sin? <<< thats directly about what you do. because of Grace? GOD FORBID! you are slaves to whom you obey whether you obey sin or obedience. plain stuff is plain stuff. no one needs to have explainations that carry them from Gods Word to make a mega pastor author rich. take care buddy the sircle with you never goes anywhere though im sure you see it the same way.
Can a Christian who has outbursts of anger from time to time - still go to heaven if they died tonight right after they had an outburst of anger?
Can a Christian who has over eaten so much ( that is a form of lasciviousness which means without restraint ) that they are sick from diseases - they die tonight - will they go to heaven?
Can a Christian that has envy towards some one else because they have a better job - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?
Can a Christian who causes strife and division amongst others - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?
Can a Christian who has deceitfully mis-represented what others are saying - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?
Can a Christian who slanders others in the body of Christ - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?
Can a Christian that has enmity which is hostility towards others - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?
Can a Christian that is doing some sort of immorality - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?
All of these and many others are all in the lists of the works of the flesh. I don't advocate doing any of them because as I have said about 50x times - all the works of the flesh bring destruction to us in some form or other.
Can a Christian who has over eaten so much ( that is a form of lasciviousness which means without restraint ) that they are sick from diseases - they die tonight - will they go to heaven?
Can a Christian that has envy towards some one else because they have a better job - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?
Can a Christian who causes strife and division amongst others - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?
Can a Christian who has deceitfully mis-represented what others are saying - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?
Can a Christian who slanders others in the body of Christ - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?
Can a Christian that has enmity which is hostility towards others - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?
Can a Christian that is doing some sort of immorality - if they died tonight - would they go to heaven?
All of these and many others are all in the lists of the works of the flesh. I don't advocate doing any of them because as I have said about 50x times - all the works of the flesh bring destruction to us in some form or other.
I agree!
Not understanding the new creation in Christ and the truth that Jesus has taken away all sin can be confusing especially with religion "demanding changes". It can cause us to be ship-wrecked in our faith but the Lord is always faithful to us to reveal His true self to all of us.
Personally I am vehemently against all forms of sinning as they all bring destruction of some sort to us while on this earth - especially the one of unbelief in Christ's finished work on the cross.
I don't see any difference in sinning by living a homosexual lifestyle to having malice, bitterness, having outbursts of anger, being deceitful, being jealous and envious and the slandering of others in the body of Christ. All of these, as well as all the works of the flesh bring about death to us in this life. They are contrary to the life off Christ in us now.
Here is my view on sin and it's affects on us and on how the Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory ( goodness ) of our Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
Sin changes our perspective on things and causes us to not look at our Father in the right light of who He truly is. ( The same as Adam and Eve did when they hid from Him even though He was still coming to visit with them and He still took care of them )
Sin also affects our ability to have harmonious relationships with others and it also distorts our view of others as well as ourselves. Sin is deceitful.
We chose to live holy lives because we are just being who we truly are in Christ - not to maintain right standing with God or that their loving Father will throw them into hell. if they don't grow up in Him like they can if they are fed the proper nutrients of His love and grace.
This living good holy lives creates right relationships with people, it will not give our enemy an influence in our lives and it is a good witness to the world.
It reveals the true heart of our loving Father and Lord to show others in this hurt and dying world their love and grace towards them.
Your true identity is not defined by your struggles, mistakes, or sinful actions. These are all confined to the flesh and are the works of the flesh as Paul said. Who you are is defined by your new birth in Christ. You are who you are by His grace and life in you!
Behavioral issues are usually the result of trying to live under the law in some form - such as the false doctrine of "sinless perfection in the flesh" or by trying to "mimic the teachings of Jesus". Only His life in manifestation brings true transformation by the Holy Spirit.
This "lose your salvation" false doctrine discourages believers and brings fear and hopelessness to them as they struggle in the flesh with some things. It distorts our view of our Father and Lord.
This causes them to have their faith ship-wrecked because they feel condemned and don't know how to walk by the spirit yet nor are they taught the gospel of the grace of God in Christ properly in order to grow up in Him.
Once you understand you are completely accepted and sin free forever in Jesus in your inner man created in righteousness and holiness - and that this is your permanent state for all eternity in Christ - the behavioral issues will fall off of our lives like dead leaves.
The "sap" of His life in and through us transforms us outwardly by the Holy Spirit as we behold the glory ( goodness ) of the Lord Jesus as in a mirror. We see all the goodness that He has already done for us and we also see ourselves in Him as one spirit with the Lord. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
I maintain that the preaching and teaching of the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ brings true righteousness which is His alone and there will be deeds of His life manifested in us if we are fed Christ Himself and His righteousness to us.
He has cleansed our hearts by faith and now we are to walk from this new heart in Christ.
As we have received Him - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6. It is all by grace through faith in what Christ has already done.
Not understanding the new creation in Christ and the truth that Jesus has taken away all sin can be confusing especially with religion "demanding changes". It can cause us to be ship-wrecked in our faith but the Lord is always faithful to us to reveal His true self to all of us.
Personally I am vehemently against all forms of sinning as they all bring destruction of some sort to us while on this earth - especially the one of unbelief in Christ's finished work on the cross.
I don't see any difference in sinning by living a homosexual lifestyle to having malice, bitterness, having outbursts of anger, being deceitful, being jealous and envious and the slandering of others in the body of Christ. All of these, as well as all the works of the flesh bring about death to us in this life. They are contrary to the life off Christ in us now.
Here is my view on sin and it's affects on us and on how the Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory ( goodness ) of our Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
Sin changes our perspective on things and causes us to not look at our Father in the right light of who He truly is. ( The same as Adam and Eve did when they hid from Him even though He was still coming to visit with them and He still took care of them )
Sin also affects our ability to have harmonious relationships with others and it also distorts our view of others as well as ourselves. Sin is deceitful.
We chose to live holy lives because we are just being who we truly are in Christ - not to maintain right standing with God or that their loving Father will throw them into hell. if they don't grow up in Him like they can if they are fed the proper nutrients of His love and grace.
This living good holy lives creates right relationships with people, it will not give our enemy an influence in our lives and it is a good witness to the world.
It reveals the true heart of our loving Father and Lord to show others in this hurt and dying world their love and grace towards them.
Your true identity is not defined by your struggles, mistakes, or sinful actions. These are all confined to the flesh and are the works of the flesh as Paul said. Who you are is defined by your new birth in Christ. You are who you are by His grace and life in you!
Behavioral issues are usually the result of trying to live under the law in some form - such as the false doctrine of "sinless perfection in the flesh" or by trying to "mimic the teachings of Jesus". Only His life in manifestation brings true transformation by the Holy Spirit.
This "lose your salvation" false doctrine discourages believers and brings fear and hopelessness to them as they struggle in the flesh with some things. It distorts our view of our Father and Lord.
This causes them to have their faith ship-wrecked because they feel condemned and don't know how to walk by the spirit yet nor are they taught the gospel of the grace of God in Christ properly in order to grow up in Him.
Once you understand you are completely accepted and sin free forever in Jesus in your inner man created in righteousness and holiness - and that this is your permanent state for all eternity in Christ - the behavioral issues will fall off of our lives like dead leaves.
The "sap" of His life in and through us transforms us outwardly by the Holy Spirit as we behold the glory ( goodness ) of the Lord Jesus as in a mirror. We see all the goodness that He has already done for us and we also see ourselves in Him as one spirit with the Lord. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
I maintain that the preaching and teaching of the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ brings true righteousness which is His alone and there will be deeds of His life manifested in us if we are fed Christ Himself and His righteousness to us.
He has cleansed our hearts by faith and now we are to walk from this new heart in Christ.
As we have received Him - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6. It is all by grace through faith in what Christ has already done.
what you both are missing is that yes there are other scriptures look at what pauls sayoing in the whole around that verse and then conclude whether sin is not going to harn your soul
Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.<<< paul is teaching them to correct this its why He wrote the epistles noithing was founded on them paul wrote back to them when He heard of thier sinful actions as warnings he says it in both letters...he then continues the LESSON
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, ( all actions he is making clear) nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (paul has explained the truth to them that sinful actions WILL exclude them from the inheritance) ..then He reminds them of whats been done on thier Behalf
11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (<<< hes reminding them that to act in those things is not who they really are now it doesnt then nullify the plain warning he has given)
12All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. ( the result of that attitude)
Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. 14And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.15Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. 16What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 17But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
One scripture doesnt exclude the restthe warning of those sinful actions excluding a person stands, so is the reminder that " weve been cleansed of our past sins. it doesnt mean were able to continue in them, or that they wont destroy our inheritance. its a principle in every letter, Just like Gods Grace has made us able to act right which is How He has saved us by Grace, Because Grace sent Jesus, the truth , and the Holy spirit. which is all we need to truly reopent and walk right before God.
this does not mean one sin then were Lost it means we have to repent when we sin, if we refuse to repent and change and continue on in the old mans ways were lost. thats Just a fact we have to follow the spirit. Paul is encouraging and reminding them that they have been made able to abstain now " thats what some of you were, but now.....your new creations created to be Like God in TRUE righteosness and holiness.
another consistant teaching in pauls letters
to follow the flesh will not lead to alvation, to rid our lives of the flesh actions by following the spirit actions ( the gospel ministry of Jesus) will lead anyone no matter what they were before to eternal Life. sure were gonna make mistakes here and there, but to not repent of those actions is death has been and always will be. we have a time now to get right and God has already placed in us all we need. Grace is good but not when it omits the warnings about eternal Life. its just what it is. Gotta obey God from genesis to revelation its clear. weve been made able if we have received His spirit were no longer who we were and helpless He saved us by making us able and right inside to contend with the spirit and n=refuse repenbtance from sin is death and we will all be Judged according to Oue deeds, because our excuse of not able is Gone, God has made us poartakers of Holiness its within all believers by His spirit. the spirit has to overcome the flesh through our obedience to Him. there is no other way and its a simple choice
Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.<<< paul is teaching them to correct this its why He wrote the epistles noithing was founded on them paul wrote back to them when He heard of thier sinful actions as warnings he says it in both letters...he then continues the LESSON
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, ( all actions he is making clear) nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (paul has explained the truth to them that sinful actions WILL exclude them from the inheritance) ..then He reminds them of whats been done on thier Behalf
11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (<<< hes reminding them that to act in those things is not who they really are now it doesnt then nullify the plain warning he has given)
12All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. ( the result of that attitude)
Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. 14And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.15Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. 16What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 17But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
One scripture doesnt exclude the restthe warning of those sinful actions excluding a person stands, so is the reminder that " weve been cleansed of our past sins. it doesnt mean were able to continue in them, or that they wont destroy our inheritance. its a principle in every letter, Just like Gods Grace has made us able to act right which is How He has saved us by Grace, Because Grace sent Jesus, the truth , and the Holy spirit. which is all we need to truly reopent and walk right before God.
this does not mean one sin then were Lost it means we have to repent when we sin, if we refuse to repent and change and continue on in the old mans ways were lost. thats Just a fact we have to follow the spirit. Paul is encouraging and reminding them that they have been made able to abstain now " thats what some of you were, but now.....your new creations created to be Like God in TRUE righteosness and holiness.
another consistant teaching in pauls letters
to follow the flesh will not lead to alvation, to rid our lives of the flesh actions by following the spirit actions ( the gospel ministry of Jesus) will lead anyone no matter what they were before to eternal Life. sure were gonna make mistakes here and there, but to not repent of those actions is death has been and always will be. we have a time now to get right and God has already placed in us all we need. Grace is good but not when it omits the warnings about eternal Life. its just what it is. Gotta obey God from genesis to revelation its clear. weve been made able if we have received His spirit were no longer who we were and helpless He saved us by making us able and right inside to contend with the spirit and n=refuse repenbtance from sin is death and we will all be Judged according to Oue deeds, because our excuse of not able is Gone, God has made us poartakers of Holiness its within all believers by His spirit. the spirit has to overcome the flesh through our obedience to Him. there is no other way and its a simple choice
Can a Christian who has outbursts of anger from time to time - still go to heaven if they died tonight right after they had an outburst of anger?
Not if they refuse to reoent of those outbursts. your seeing it as if one sin after will condemn, not true repentance is always available, in order to really repent you have to understand tho, you have done wrong and need to repent. actions matter more than before now is the things you have backwards Our actions now are without excuse Gods already done what He will do to save us. before they had the excuse of ignorance look here and remeber its all the Bible and all to be learned
same paul again under oath no less
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
see we know that Jesus will return to judge the World in righteousness because God raised Him from the dead, and that now we have no ignorance excuse . Jesus came and told us all we need to Know straif=ght from the throne of God the Father
regarding the day appointed when He will judge in righteousness paul expounds on that in romans 2 wich i already quoted above, according to what we do now having been Given Gods Most precious and truly able Gift to make us new and right
romas 2 ...But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: ( to every man according thier deeds)8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; (<< Jew , gentile no difference all men )10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God."
this is the same Judgement Jesus spoke of, the same conditions apply same one peter spoke of and paul speaks of in other pkaces its never " you wont be judged by your deeds, its never noi matter what you do your saved its aleays those who do good will be given eternal life, those who refuse will not
Paul taught the gospel there is only 1 gospel its what Jesus set forth in His word and then died to make complete. His dying sends the holy spirit ultimately through His resurrection and ascention. theres no way around it in scripture what we do we will answer for one way or the other
the thing you also dont Get, is sin is if you are doing what you Know is Wrong according to God. it doesnt matter if i know what you are doing is wrong, but if you Know its wrong and reject repentance from whatever action. because your judgement will be you and Jesus face to face. if you dont Know somethings wrong truly, your fine, if you Know God says its wrong and continue doing iut you then need repetnance from that. you cant just ignore your own sin and consider yourself righteous thats a fantasy like the eternal Life in it is a fictional thing. but reality is faced by us all.
reoenbtance comes when you accept that God has made it clear that repentance is required. its Just what it is, theres to many places where it says what it says more than anything its consistant oin the Bible nt and old. Gotta really believe your new Here and Now and live as if you believe it. Gotts Learn Jesus and Live How He says, thats the Way. again though He who undrstands Little little is required, those who understand Much, much is rewuired. what a person cant do though is refuse to Believe the Goispel Given By Jesus and make up reasons it doesnt apply because of Grace, that will destroy anyone and blind them to thier own destruction is words Judge and offer eternal Life and warn of eternal torment.
to obey isnt to be perfect in anyone elses eyes its to follow repentance according to what you Know of right and wrong. if i were to go steal a pack of gum tomorrow, i woulf=dnt have the attitude " well im already saved" i would feel guilt for stealing.
If i see a poor man beging for food on the corner tomorrow, and i have plenty and just walked on by and didnt help the guy out, i wouldnt go proclaim im loving my neighbor, id feel guilt for that and repent and then the net guy i saw when im able to help id go do it and would have no guilt. guilt doesnt disappear for what were doing wrong today, sorrow for our wrongs that we now are continuing in, that leads to repentance. i know the new jp teaching is " guilt free" and everything but if a chirstian does something they Know is wrong, they shouldnt just not acknowledge it and say grace grace. they should feel what they did because that is what will cause them to repent and change thier deeds from disobedient to obedient.
and when they find themselves giving to people in need as they are able, not only is guilt gone but there is a godly deep and true enjoyment in helping those in great need it becomes something where we didnt like needing to give before, something we are always looking to do. thats Just how it works, you have to actually follow the spirit according to the Word of God
Not if they refuse to reoent of those outbursts. your seeing it as if one sin after will condemn, not true repentance is always available, in order to really repent you have to understand tho, you have done wrong and need to repent. actions matter more than before now is the things you have backwards Our actions now are without excuse Gods already done what He will do to save us. before they had the excuse of ignorance look here and remeber its all the Bible and all to be learned
same paul again under oath no less
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
see we know that Jesus will return to judge the World in righteousness because God raised Him from the dead, and that now we have no ignorance excuse . Jesus came and told us all we need to Know straif=ght from the throne of God the Father
regarding the day appointed when He will judge in righteousness paul expounds on that in romans 2 wich i already quoted above, according to what we do now having been Given Gods Most precious and truly able Gift to make us new and right
romas 2 ...But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: ( to every man according thier deeds)8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; (<< Jew , gentile no difference all men )10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God."
this is the same Judgement Jesus spoke of, the same conditions apply same one peter spoke of and paul speaks of in other pkaces its never " you wont be judged by your deeds, its never noi matter what you do your saved its aleays those who do good will be given eternal life, those who refuse will not
Paul taught the gospel there is only 1 gospel its what Jesus set forth in His word and then died to make complete. His dying sends the holy spirit ultimately through His resurrection and ascention. theres no way around it in scripture what we do we will answer for one way or the other
the thing you also dont Get, is sin is if you are doing what you Know is Wrong according to God. it doesnt matter if i know what you are doing is wrong, but if you Know its wrong and reject repentance from whatever action. because your judgement will be you and Jesus face to face. if you dont Know somethings wrong truly, your fine, if you Know God says its wrong and continue doing iut you then need repetnance from that. you cant just ignore your own sin and consider yourself righteous thats a fantasy like the eternal Life in it is a fictional thing. but reality is faced by us all.
reoenbtance comes when you accept that God has made it clear that repentance is required. its Just what it is, theres to many places where it says what it says more than anything its consistant oin the Bible nt and old. Gotta really believe your new Here and Now and live as if you believe it. Gotts Learn Jesus and Live How He says, thats the Way. again though He who undrstands Little little is required, those who understand Much, much is rewuired. what a person cant do though is refuse to Believe the Goispel Given By Jesus and make up reasons it doesnt apply because of Grace, that will destroy anyone and blind them to thier own destruction is words Judge and offer eternal Life and warn of eternal torment.
to obey isnt to be perfect in anyone elses eyes its to follow repentance according to what you Know of right and wrong. if i were to go steal a pack of gum tomorrow, i woulf=dnt have the attitude " well im already saved" i would feel guilt for stealing.
If i see a poor man beging for food on the corner tomorrow, and i have plenty and just walked on by and didnt help the guy out, i wouldnt go proclaim im loving my neighbor, id feel guilt for that and repent and then the net guy i saw when im able to help id go do it and would have no guilt. guilt doesnt disappear for what were doing wrong today, sorrow for our wrongs that we now are continuing in, that leads to repentance. i know the new jp teaching is " guilt free" and everything but if a chirstian does something they Know is wrong, they shouldnt just not acknowledge it and say grace grace. they should feel what they did because that is what will cause them to repent and change thier deeds from disobedient to obedient.
and when they find themselves giving to people in need as they are able, not only is guilt gone but there is a godly deep and true enjoyment in helping those in great need it becomes something where we didnt like needing to give before, something we are always looking to do. thats Just how it works, you have to actually follow the spirit according to the Word of God
bruce all of this is your mind because you have swallowed what someone told you.
this is what Jesus would say yet you will explain nah that doesnt apply its all what jp said it is
Luke 6:46-49 :And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: 48He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
you spend all your time explaining why Jesus had it wrong or He was trying to condemn you with His words, you are so backewards in your mind man and you never ever evvvver will let go even when you see the truth. Jesus was not wrong, nor will His words condemn a single person who believes them Just as He says here those who Hear and do thier House will stand firm. those who hear and dont do, thier House will fall and be in ruins.
this is what your LORD says who died to be the one who decides says about forgivness which you also deny and label "law" because of the gog
matthew 6:14-15 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
just 2 small examples of what you refuse to accept you dont get that what Jesus says will never change no matter what author tells you it changes. its eternal always has been and will be the Only true salvation everyth9ing that Your Lord whom yu claim to worship and praise with your words said. He says this as well which you spread will simply condemn people Like the rest of His ministry the Words of Life you have labeled death completely backwards man.
matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
you " that will condemn you to believe the things Jesus taught plainly to His disciples ( christians) and think you need to obey them its all grace"
Jesus Christ John 8:51 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
John 14:23-24 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Jesus says this same thing again and again and again Jesus had it right, the 4 gospels have it right, one or two things paul said while ommiting the rest of what He said IS NOT SALVATION Jesus alone Offers salvation, not how you claim it to be, jp claims it to be, But How Jesus said clearly it is and that it will never change from the Gospel. you need to get rid of the gog friend and Go learn Jesus and His word and you will for yourself find what salvation is and when you do that then you will Know the truth and the truth will set you free or did Jesus say thats connected to His word too????
john 8:31-32 "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
same thing Hes saying Here
John 14:15-18 "If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
nothing you or anyone else can ever derive will ever change the Word of God, turn friend and accept Jesus for real dont be afraid of what youll have to give up, God will never require more than He will Give in return. this pitiful life for eternity I hope sopmeone eventually is able to get your mind to see i truly do after 18 months or so of this with you on this site. Just accept Jesus the One from the Bible and you are home free
this is what Jesus would say yet you will explain nah that doesnt apply its all what jp said it is
Luke 6:46-49 :And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: 48He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
you spend all your time explaining why Jesus had it wrong or He was trying to condemn you with His words, you are so backewards in your mind man and you never ever evvvver will let go even when you see the truth. Jesus was not wrong, nor will His words condemn a single person who believes them Just as He says here those who Hear and do thier House will stand firm. those who hear and dont do, thier House will fall and be in ruins.
this is what your LORD says who died to be the one who decides says about forgivness which you also deny and label "law" because of the gog
matthew 6:14-15 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
just 2 small examples of what you refuse to accept you dont get that what Jesus says will never change no matter what author tells you it changes. its eternal always has been and will be the Only true salvation everyth9ing that Your Lord whom yu claim to worship and praise with your words said. He says this as well which you spread will simply condemn people Like the rest of His ministry the Words of Life you have labeled death completely backwards man.
matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
you " that will condemn you to believe the things Jesus taught plainly to His disciples ( christians) and think you need to obey them its all grace"
Jesus Christ John 8:51 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
John 14:23-24 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Jesus says this same thing again and again and again Jesus had it right, the 4 gospels have it right, one or two things paul said while ommiting the rest of what He said IS NOT SALVATION Jesus alone Offers salvation, not how you claim it to be, jp claims it to be, But How Jesus said clearly it is and that it will never change from the Gospel. you need to get rid of the gog friend and Go learn Jesus and His word and you will for yourself find what salvation is and when you do that then you will Know the truth and the truth will set you free or did Jesus say thats connected to His word too????
john 8:31-32 "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
same thing Hes saying Here
John 14:15-18 "If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
nothing you or anyone else can ever derive will ever change the Word of God, turn friend and accept Jesus for real dont be afraid of what youll have to give up, God will never require more than He will Give in return. this pitiful life for eternity I hope sopmeone eventually is able to get your mind to see i truly do after 18 months or so of this with you on this site. Just accept Jesus the One from the Bible and you are home free
bruce >>>> Inheriting the kingdom of God is not meaning "to go to heaven" in these scriptures. It means to live the quality of life that is in the kingdom now on this earth. The kingdom of God is within us now.
Jesus Christ Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. ( entirely based on what they did)
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
all based on what they did not do
or as paul made clear about the Judgement repeating Jesus here
Romans 2:5-10 " the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
absoulutely inheriting the Kingdom of God is talking about eternal Life, or eternal Punishement, again theres no basis for the gogs interpretation as always.
2 thessolonians 1:7-9"...when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
1 peter 4:17-19 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator."
no basis not a single verse will say the kingdom of God has nothing to do with eternal Life Be careful friends of teachings when someone has to expl;ain why Gods word is wrong, and you need to see it as they are explaining it, yet have no clear scripture. do not be deceived
Jesus Christ Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. ( entirely based on what they did)
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
all based on what they did not do
or as paul made clear about the Judgement repeating Jesus here
Romans 2:5-10 " the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
absoulutely inheriting the Kingdom of God is talking about eternal Life, or eternal Punishement, again theres no basis for the gogs interpretation as always.
2 thessolonians 1:7-9"...when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
1 peter 4:17-19 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator."
no basis not a single verse will say the kingdom of God has nothing to do with eternal Life Be careful friends of teachings when someone has to expl;ain why Gods word is wrong, and you need to see it as they are explaining it, yet have no clear scripture. do not be deceived
remember these are word-for-word accounts of the true gospel of the grace of Christ being preached.
Here's Peter....shouldn't he have said "You need to forgive anyone first before you can receive God's forgiveness by the blood of Jesus"??
Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
And the same thing for Paul - he didn't say 'You need to forgive first before we you can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus" ??
Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,
Or is it possible Jesus was talking about the law when He gave those words out for His disciples at the time they were still under law then? The New Covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus died and rose again to obtain our eternal forgiveness.
Here Paul says that forgiveness is all based on "according to the riches of His grace "..not if we forgive first.
Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
Here's Peter....shouldn't he have said "You need to forgive anyone first before you can receive God's forgiveness by the blood of Jesus"??
Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
And the same thing for Paul - he didn't say 'You need to forgive first before we you can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus" ??
Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,
Or is it possible Jesus was talking about the law when He gave those words out for His disciples at the time they were still under law then? The New Covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus died and rose again to obtain our eternal forgiveness.
Here Paul says that forgiveness is all based on "according to the riches of His grace "..not if we forgive first.
Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
Why do we deny the words of God in regards to the true gospel of the grace of Christ for forgiveness after the Cross where we don't need to forgive people before we receive Christ's forgiveness as Peter and Paul showed in Acts 10 and Acts 13?
Obviously we need to take all scripture even the words of Jesus and see who they are talking to and what was the purpose of His words at the time He spoke them. Context is so key or we end up mixing up the Old Covenant with the New and we end up with a works-based doctrine like the Old Covenant was based on.
Let's climb into the New Covenant build upon better promises and of which the blood of Jesus speaks of better things. We have a truly great and complete salvation in Christ and we don't need to add our own "works" onto it.
Obviously we need to take all scripture even the words of Jesus and see who they are talking to and what was the purpose of His words at the time He spoke them. Context is so key or we end up mixing up the Old Covenant with the New and we end up with a works-based doctrine like the Old Covenant was based on.
Let's climb into the New Covenant build upon better promises and of which the blood of Jesus speaks of better things. We have a truly great and complete salvation in Christ and we don't need to add our own "works" onto it.
Trying to fit what Peter and Paul said in Acts 10 and 13 - in their word-for-word accounts of preaching the true gospel of the grace of Christ can "conflict" with some of our religious beliefs.
The truth is that they did not say. "you must forgive others before you can receive Christ's forgiveness - obtained by God's riches in grace which He purchased with His own blood for an eternal redemption and the complete forgiveness of sins"
There is no "conditional" forgiveness which is contingent on us forgiving first in the New Covenant which started after the Cross and Jesus fulfilled the law for us.
It's anti-the gospel. It is however 100% the law that we must forgive first in order to receive forgiveness in the law.
We forgive now because we are already forgiven in Christ. This is our new nature in Him in our inner man in Christ being expressed out to others.
Paul says in Eph. 4:22 to put on the new man in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness...then he shows us what this looks like in the next verses including this one below.
Ephesians 4:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
The truth is that they did not say. "you must forgive others before you can receive Christ's forgiveness - obtained by God's riches in grace which He purchased with His own blood for an eternal redemption and the complete forgiveness of sins"
There is no "conditional" forgiveness which is contingent on us forgiving first in the New Covenant which started after the Cross and Jesus fulfilled the law for us.
It's anti-the gospel. It is however 100% the law that we must forgive first in order to receive forgiveness in the law.
We forgive now because we are already forgiven in Christ. This is our new nature in Him in our inner man in Christ being expressed out to others.
Paul says in Eph. 4:22 to put on the new man in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness...then he shows us what this looks like in the next verses including this one below.
Ephesians 4:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
Here is a view of Matthew 6 and forgiveness through the finished work of Christ. I like to use this site sometimes as it has a place at the bottom of the article where people can ask questions. Many of us have the same questions.
Did Jesus Put Price tags on Forgiveness? (Matthew 6:14-15)
The gospel that Jesus revealed declares that God loves you like a father, he holds nothing against you, and he longs for his sons and daughters to come home. It’s the good news an orphaned world desperately needs to hear.
So why did Jesus say this:
For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Matt 6:14-15)
This sounds like bad news, as though you must earn God’s forgiveness through works of forgiveness. How are we to read these words? I’m going to give you three interpretations, and then you can choose.
1. Jesus is preaching law
As many grace preachers have said (including me in this post), Jesus was preaching law to those who lived under law.
Jesus was the greatest law preacher of all time. He preached law so the self-righteous would see their desperate need for grace.
The old law-keeping covenant has gone but the self-righteous who remain need to hear the harsh words of Jesus. The truth is you cannot earn God’s forgiveness. The measure of forgiveness we need is infinitely greater than any forgiveness we could show to others.
Did Jesus put price tags on forgiveness? In this passage, he does! But on the cross he paid that price on our behalf. The very condition for forgiveness that Jesus preached on the Mount, he fulfilled on the cross. Only in Christ do we receive the Father’s forgiveness.
2. Jesus is describing the fruit of grace
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. (1 John 4:20)
Taylor Swift sang “Haters gonna hate,” but the lyrics are from John. Haters gonna hate because hate is in their heart. The fruit reveal the tree. But if you have been apprehended by the love of your heavenly Father you won’t be a hater anymore. You’ll be a lover and a forgiver.
Paul wrote, “Forgive as the Lord forgave you” (Col 3:13) and that’s the proper order. God acts, we respond. But if we don’t respond it’s as if God never acted. Do you see the connection? If we don’t believe God has forgiven us then Christ died for nothing. That’s what Jesus is saying here:
In prayer there is a connection between what God does and what you do. You can’t get forgiveness from God, for instance, without also forgiving others. If you refuse to do your part, you cut yourself off from God’s part. (Matt 6:14-15, MSG)
Unforgiveness is a form of bondage. It’s a grace killer. If you are unable to release forgiveness to others, you’ll have trouble experiencing the forgiveness that God has given to you.
It’s not that God will become unloving and travel back through time and stop Jesus from carrying your sins on the cross. God never changes! But if you don’t respond to what he has done, it’s as if he’d never done it. Grace without faith is worthless.
In the parable of the unforgiving servant, Jesus tells the story of a king who forgives an indebted servant (Matt 18:23-35). But the servant is unchanged by the king’s grace. By choosing to remain graceless and unforgiving the servant reveals his contempt for the gift and the giver. He does not, “Forgive as the Lord forgave you.” Instead he scorns grace and ends up miserable.
And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses. (Mark 11:25-26)
Again, there are two ways to read this: (1) as a law the self-righteous must obey if they are to keep up their charade, or (2) as an exhortation to walk in the grace of a Father who has already forgiven you in Christ.
“Paul, how can you say God has forgiven you when Jesus says he may forgive you?” Because I’ve seen the cross!
To forgive is to send your sins away and Jesus did that already. He will never do it again and you cannot undo what he has done (Heb 9:26). Because of Jesus God is no longer counting your sins against you (2 Cor 5:19).
The issue is not “what can I get God to do?” but “what God has done and what can I now do because of what he has done.”
Has someone hurt you? Are you the victim of an unforgiveable crime? By the grace of God you can be free from that wound! Don’t hold onto the sins of others like the unforgiving servant. You’ll be miserable. The flow of grace will be poisoned by the bitter root. Let go of sin and take hold of grace. Be better, not bitter. See the cross. See what Jesus did for you them forgive them in Jesus’ Name and be free!
3. It’s both, for Jesus speaks to all of us at our point of need
What you look through determines what you see. If you are trusting in your own performance, you will read Jesus’ words as law. “I must work to earn God’s forgiveness.” You cannot succeed! When life hurts you this law will condemn you as a law-breaker in need of grace, and the sooner that happens the better.
However, if you are trusting in Christ’s righteousness, you will read his words as an exhortation to walk in grace. You want more grace? Then give from the abundant supply he has given to you. Let no bitter root grow that causes you to fall short of grace (Heb 12:15).
Jesus spoke words the whole world needs to hear. The genius of Jesus was that he could speak to crowds of people and meet everyone – the self-righteous and the hungry – at their point of need.
It’s a mistake to dismiss the words of Jesus as irrelevant or old covenant or pre-cross. If it’s in the Bible it’s useful for training in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16). The words of Jesus either reveal the self-righteousness that leads to death or the Christ-righteousness that causes you to reign in life!
The followers of Jesus still know that he has the words of eternal life!
Here is the link below if anyone is interested in looking at the questions. I often learn from those questions as they are usually common ones that we all may have. Bless you!
https://escapetoreality.org/2015/08/...tthew-6v14-15/
Did Jesus Put Price tags on Forgiveness? (Matthew 6:14-15)
The gospel that Jesus revealed declares that God loves you like a father, he holds nothing against you, and he longs for his sons and daughters to come home. It’s the good news an orphaned world desperately needs to hear.
So why did Jesus say this:
For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Matt 6:14-15)
This sounds like bad news, as though you must earn God’s forgiveness through works of forgiveness. How are we to read these words? I’m going to give you three interpretations, and then you can choose.
1. Jesus is preaching law
As many grace preachers have said (including me in this post), Jesus was preaching law to those who lived under law.
Jesus was the greatest law preacher of all time. He preached law so the self-righteous would see their desperate need for grace.
The old law-keeping covenant has gone but the self-righteous who remain need to hear the harsh words of Jesus. The truth is you cannot earn God’s forgiveness. The measure of forgiveness we need is infinitely greater than any forgiveness we could show to others.
Did Jesus put price tags on forgiveness? In this passage, he does! But on the cross he paid that price on our behalf. The very condition for forgiveness that Jesus preached on the Mount, he fulfilled on the cross. Only in Christ do we receive the Father’s forgiveness.
2. Jesus is describing the fruit of grace
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. (1 John 4:20)
Taylor Swift sang “Haters gonna hate,” but the lyrics are from John. Haters gonna hate because hate is in their heart. The fruit reveal the tree. But if you have been apprehended by the love of your heavenly Father you won’t be a hater anymore. You’ll be a lover and a forgiver.
Paul wrote, “Forgive as the Lord forgave you” (Col 3:13) and that’s the proper order. God acts, we respond. But if we don’t respond it’s as if God never acted. Do you see the connection? If we don’t believe God has forgiven us then Christ died for nothing. That’s what Jesus is saying here:
In prayer there is a connection between what God does and what you do. You can’t get forgiveness from God, for instance, without also forgiving others. If you refuse to do your part, you cut yourself off from God’s part. (Matt 6:14-15, MSG)
Unforgiveness is a form of bondage. It’s a grace killer. If you are unable to release forgiveness to others, you’ll have trouble experiencing the forgiveness that God has given to you.
It’s not that God will become unloving and travel back through time and stop Jesus from carrying your sins on the cross. God never changes! But if you don’t respond to what he has done, it’s as if he’d never done it. Grace without faith is worthless.
In the parable of the unforgiving servant, Jesus tells the story of a king who forgives an indebted servant (Matt 18:23-35). But the servant is unchanged by the king’s grace. By choosing to remain graceless and unforgiving the servant reveals his contempt for the gift and the giver. He does not, “Forgive as the Lord forgave you.” Instead he scorns grace and ends up miserable.
And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses. (Mark 11:25-26)
Again, there are two ways to read this: (1) as a law the self-righteous must obey if they are to keep up their charade, or (2) as an exhortation to walk in the grace of a Father who has already forgiven you in Christ.
“Paul, how can you say God has forgiven you when Jesus says he may forgive you?” Because I’ve seen the cross!
To forgive is to send your sins away and Jesus did that already. He will never do it again and you cannot undo what he has done (Heb 9:26). Because of Jesus God is no longer counting your sins against you (2 Cor 5:19).
The issue is not “what can I get God to do?” but “what God has done and what can I now do because of what he has done.”
Has someone hurt you? Are you the victim of an unforgiveable crime? By the grace of God you can be free from that wound! Don’t hold onto the sins of others like the unforgiving servant. You’ll be miserable. The flow of grace will be poisoned by the bitter root. Let go of sin and take hold of grace. Be better, not bitter. See the cross. See what Jesus did for you them forgive them in Jesus’ Name and be free!
3. It’s both, for Jesus speaks to all of us at our point of need
What you look through determines what you see. If you are trusting in your own performance, you will read Jesus’ words as law. “I must work to earn God’s forgiveness.” You cannot succeed! When life hurts you this law will condemn you as a law-breaker in need of grace, and the sooner that happens the better.
However, if you are trusting in Christ’s righteousness, you will read his words as an exhortation to walk in grace. You want more grace? Then give from the abundant supply he has given to you. Let no bitter root grow that causes you to fall short of grace (Heb 12:15).
Jesus spoke words the whole world needs to hear. The genius of Jesus was that he could speak to crowds of people and meet everyone – the self-righteous and the hungry – at their point of need.
It’s a mistake to dismiss the words of Jesus as irrelevant or old covenant or pre-cross. If it’s in the Bible it’s useful for training in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16). The words of Jesus either reveal the self-righteousness that leads to death or the Christ-righteousness that causes you to reign in life!
The followers of Jesus still know that he has the words of eternal life!
Here is the link below if anyone is interested in looking at the questions. I often learn from those questions as they are usually common ones that we all may have. Bless you!
https://escapetoreality.org/2015/08/...tthew-6v14-15/
do you ever get tired of the circles you attempt to go in? ever get tired of not understanding that scripture is how scripture is interpreted? why is it you always have to deny what your Lord said? in order to make the gog even slightly deceptive enough to try to fool someone? do you suppose Gods Spirit will ever explain How Jesus words dont apply like you always try to do?
true gospel of the grace of Christ
paul says this phrase 1 time
Paul says he is preaching the Kingdom of God How many times? How many times Does Jesus say He came to preach the Gospel? there is only 1 Gospel im starting to think you may be one of those deceivers rather than just a deceived person. im glad you chimed in on this particular thread its A great example of what deception does to a persons mind.
if believing Jesus is a lol " religious belief system condemned by the gog, <<< ill go with believing Jesus over a rich Guy who figured out a good productto package and sell to the masses. and you are gonna have some "splaining to do lucy" when you are standing before Jesus you realize that theres no way out of that event i hope. you should truly look to the Lord Jesus and the Word of God to learn who you are currently following so steadfastly, hint : its not Jesus.....its the one who spoke through the subtle and crafty beast of the field. the one who was opposed to Gods word ya know? God said one thing, He swore to another?
Get thee behind me in Jesus name
paul says this phrase 1 time
Paul says he is preaching the Kingdom of God How many times? How many times Does Jesus say He came to preach the Gospel? there is only 1 Gospel im starting to think you may be one of those deceivers rather than just a deceived person. im glad you chimed in on this particular thread its A great example of what deception does to a persons mind.
if believing Jesus is a lol " religious belief system condemned by the gog, <<< ill go with believing Jesus over a rich Guy who figured out a good productto package and sell to the masses. and you are gonna have some "splaining to do lucy" when you are standing before Jesus you realize that theres no way out of that event i hope. you should truly look to the Lord Jesus and the Word of God to learn who you are currently following so steadfastly, hint : its not Jesus.....its the one who spoke through the subtle and crafty beast of the field. the one who was opposed to Gods word ya know? God said one thing, He swore to another?
Get thee behind me in Jesus name
bruce thinks the Lords prayer is the Law because He says " forgive us as we forgive those who sin against us" <<< and then explains what that means in matt 6 14-15. any thing Jesus said we need to do is " the Law of moses" to bruce because its just not grace. He doesnt believe the Gospel of the Kingdom, he believes joseph princes " gospel of the grace of christ" whoich means no condition whatsoever or well yeah its not grace. kinda why this post was written to shine a light on things like that.
You can't climb in.... you have to repent and believe... you need to be born again of the Holy Spirit to know that work is required because The Messiah who offered His blood for our sins gave us work to do. Saved by Grace to walk in obedience with Heavenly Father through His Son.
How many accusations come when the word works is shared... yet the Messiah commands perfect works....
and all that comes to some of your minds is the writings of Paul.. which is not the Words that give eternal life.
Paul was teaching the New Testament in place of the Old... but many have made their own covenant with God of telling God they can not do the work because Christ did it all for them and nothing they can do will be good enough..,
Know you not that the Lord delights in someone who sets his heart to be obedient? If The Messiah tells you to fly you fly because by His strength you will fly if you believe Him, likewise if the Messiah commands perfect works then believe Him and set your heart on the things He teaches.
That is Faith in the work of the cross.. by hearing and doing what the Messiah Teaches you to do.
we are the wretches believing the Master..