Is tithing our 10%of income part of being a Christian?

[pagie]

amazes me that its usually people who dont attend church or have taken offence from church are usually the most vocal about not giving to church, then give scripture upon scripture why not too.... yet bless me bless me bless me at the same time and wonder why they roam in desert places
If you are part of a household you would be more than willing to contribute to the household, even the world does that with their own.

the subject matter isnt a critic on persons who believe the oposite from us, but simply a examination and dialog regarding the textual subject

 

[pagie]

amazes me that its usually people who dont attend church or have taken offence from church are usually the most vocal about not giving to church, then give scripture upon scripture why not too.... yet bless me bless me bless me at the same time and wonder why they roam in desert places
If you are part of a household you would be more than willing to contribute to the household, even the world does that with their own.

we dont say dont give to the church

 

[charisenexcelcis]

we dont say dont give to the church

This is the second time I noticed this: who is we?

 

[cookie39]

Amen Paige, I would only say this because you are in agreement with the " Word Of God" and not man's INTERPRTATIONS; it is so sad how people just disregard The Word Of God for what a pastor say, it is like tring to walk a blind man the right directions with proof that he is going the wrong way, yet; because he neither know you or the one who gave you the true way he will not listen to you. I read what the Word of God say as you have posted it... and I will not disagree for, it is conformation to what the Lord told me as well. I will give as Jesus said to give... To the Poor, the widows, and the fatherless, he also said we ought to give to those who can't give back who are in need, and to give to those who are in prison... to feed them, to cloth them, to put shoes on their feet, to give them a home if they are cast out. There was no example of Mega churches in the bible,,,, Jesus could have said lets collect money to build a big church for the five thousand men not counting women and children which tells us it exceeded five thousand people, or when there was thousands added to the CHURCH-- Not A Building, it Is The BODY OF CHRIST JESUS, and I think it is blasphemy to call what God said it is not, what they call it today.... HE Said His Church Is NOT Build with MANs hands. so there is no lights needed in the Body of Christ for he is the light. We are commanded to go into All the world and preach not to stay in the four walls of a building. and for those who cant travel we have the schools, the grocery stores, malls, laundry rooms, the hospitals, play grounds,, I see why Christ said that many will say Lord, Lord, didn't we do such n such n your name, and he said away from me I KNEW YOU NOT, Many clame to know him,,, but it is man they know, the scholars, the pastors, and such like that,,, BUT DO CHRIST KNOW YOU??? Is the question!! How can he when some chase the words of man, and not God's Word? It is his Word and it was broken down as far as it could that it will be revealed to us what we should do, and what we do not have to do...
Thank you Paige for taking the time to give the truth according to the Word of God; I believe you really have to be seeking the truth from the Lord for him to give you so much revelation, and dispite the criticsizing you pressed with the truth; And I thank God for what he revealed to you to help those who seek the truth of God....

I have a question for all those who give; How many poor people in the church have you helped, or your pastors helped? how much of the money they get from us do they give to the needed? how many shelters do they send you all to; that you help smeone with food or cloths? How uch do you all give to this web site who needs the finances to keep it going and help his family with their needs? and help others to have a place to go when they get saved or need prayer or just someone to talk to when they had to give up all their wordly friends and this is another place to go for them to find fellowship when the building doors is closed until next Sunday. And Church folk are too busy with their on lives to sit and fellowship outside of the building? I Do? Do You? The people who gave all they owned in the book of Acts,,,, it was giving to the poor, the widows, the fatherless, and such as were in need. It did not go to jet planes, million dollar mansion, 100,000 dollar cars, Homes all over everywhere, when Jesus said not to take nothing with you, for a workman is worthy of his meat... in other words they will be invited in someone home to stay for their visit if they are doing the will of God on there journey. not take God's people money and fatten yourselves.. Ezekiel warned of this,,, greater is their ****ation.... I give all I have to the poor and to this site as a ministry of the Lord,,, for it helps the poor in spirit and the wounded, and brokenhearted, those who are in bondage and want to be free.. for one day of the week don't help, neither will nine hours a week,,, We need help from God every day, every day!! So Againg God bless you Paige, and I pray God keep anointing your ministry as well as all who have spoken the truth according to the Word of God and not the commandments of man.

 

[pagie]

This is the second time I noticed this: who is we?

im sorry what I mean is those who hold that tithing is not a new testament principle do not do so nessasarely in a bid to say that giving to the church is wrong.
"we" who dont believe its a new testament requirement

 

[worldlover]

tithe is another measure of your sincerity and willingness.

 

[pagie]

tithe is another measure of your sincerity and willingness.

sincerity doesn't determine something to be a truth, anyone can have a sincere faith in things which are not, I don't doubt the sincerity of the 911 terrorists or the Bali bombers they showed a incredible amount of sincerity. if I am sincere about not tithing it doesn't make my words true, and if I were to be sincere about tithing it wouldn't make what I say true either because sincerity doesn't determine truth but reality does.

so sincerity wont make my point about the tithe true
and sincerity wont make your point about the tithe true

what we should use to support something to be a true thing is the evidence!

 

[charisenexcelcis]

im sorry what I mean is those who hold that tithing is not a new testament principle do not do so nessasarely in a bid to say that giving to the church is wrong.
"we" who dont believe its a new testament requirement

So, you wrote an entire book on this, thirty-or-so chapters, about twenty on disproving the tithe and ten on New Testament giving. Is that about right?

 

[pagie]

So, you wrote an entire book on this, thirty-or-so chapters, about twenty on disproving the tithe and ten on New Testament giving. Is that about right?

no its not writen by me its writen by Russ Kelly

 

[greatkraw]

thanks guys I know there are a lot of posts from me here though I hope you enjoyed reading them.

Thank you Pagie,

now I will tell you all what the New Testament DOES say,

1 Cor 16:2Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store,
as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

So, for instance, if you earn $100 in a week you might set aside $1
$1000 -> $100
$10,000 --> $2000

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Thank you Pagie,

now I will tell you all what the New Testament DOES say,

1 Cor 16:2Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store,
as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

So, for instance, if you earn $100 in a week you might set aside $1
$1000 -> $100
$10,000 --> $2000

Excellent greatkraw! I agree.

 

[Consumed]

"I may be sinning but i'm pursuing the path of righteousness"​

.

bro just wanted to point out that you dont have to pursue it, He found you and your walking in it

 

[Crazy4GODword]

well i mean the church need to stay running right? and yes God doesn't need money for He owns all money here....actually owns everything. We should pay tithes because it shows our faithfulness and it shows our good works (works cannot save you) to Him. I believe we should or else it is robbery, cause God helps you why not give back and say i am unworthy and take my money (do it willingly and honestly).

I believe money is the replacement of a sacrifice, we are giving a sacifice of joy to Him that He should own this (even though it belongs to Him)

God bless

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

The ONLY way to settle the issue of tithing is to study The Word and see, in history, when tithing began in the Christian Church.

Let's start with the history. NO CHURCH taught tithing on one's income until the second half of the 1800s, and even then, history shows the motivation was MONEY, not scripture.

Now, let's look at tithing in the Bible.

The first time tithe is mentioned in the Bible is Abraham's tithe of pagan spoils of war, and Abraham kept NOTHING for himself. This was NOT an act of worship. The goods that Abraham gave the tenth from didn’t even belong to Abraham:

Genesis 14:21 (NIV) - The king of Sodom said to Abram, “Give me the people and keep the goods for yourself.”

Notice in verse 21 the king of Sodom didn’t ask Abraham if he would give back to him the people, but rather said GIVE ME the people and keep the goods for yourself. The way that is worded indicates that the king of Sodom was claiming that the people and the goods belonged to him and those he represented.

Genesis 14:22-24 (NIV) - 22But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “I have raised my hand to the LORD, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth, and have taken an oath 23that I will accept nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or the thong of a sandal, so that you will never be able to say, ‘I made Abram rich.’ 24I will accept nothing but what my men have eaten and the share that belongs to the men who went with me—to Aner, Eshcol and Mamre. Let them have their share.”


Notice in verses 23 and 24 Abraham also acknowledges that the goods belonged to the king of Sodom and those he represented.

Therefore, it is clear that both the king of Sodom and Abraham acknowledged that the spoils of war did NOT belong to Abraham, yet he gave a tenth of the spoils to King Melchizedek. This would seem that Abraham did something wrong, if not even illegal, but Biblical historians agree that it was custom in Abraham's day to give the king a tenth of the war spoils. Had Abraham not given the tenth, he would have gone against custom.

Conclusion: Abraham did NOT give a tenth of his income, or his wealth. Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils of war that didn’t belong to him. That is NOT an example for Christians to follow today.

The next mention of a tithe is Jacob's VOW to tithe. Jacob set the conditions, not God. Nowhere in The Word does it tell us that Jacob actually tithed. Genesis 28:10-22

Next is The Lord's Tithe. God gave His definition as a tenth of crops and animals which came from God's hand, not man's income. God NEVER commanded anyone to tithe on anything that man made or earned. Leviticus 27:30-33.

The ordinances (instructions, or laws) for The Lord's Tithe are in Numbers 18. God gave strict orders to take His tithe to the Levites. God NEVER changed that command. Anyone who takes God's tithe to anyone other than the Levites is being disobedient to God's Word.

There are others tithes in the Bible such as the Festival Tithe and the Tithe for the Poor. It is The Lord's Tithe that churches pattern their teaching after.

Church leaders ignore God's definition of His tithe, and ignore God's ordinances for His tithe. They change the words to fit their pocket book. This is nothing but manipulation of God's Word. They are false teachers.

The Bible CLEARLY SHOWS that the tithe ENDED at the cross in the Book of Hebrews. In the first nine verses of Hebrews 7 the words tenth or tithes appears SEVEN TIMES. The ONLY place in the Bible, after Calvary, that tithing appears is in Hebrews 7.

In Hebrews 7:5 we are told that Levi (the Levites) took the tithes under the law. In Hebrews 7:12 we are told that when the priesthood changes, the law will change. Hebrews 7:18 is telling us that Numbers 18 was disannulled. Numbers 18 established the Levitical priesthood, and part of that establishing included tithing. When the Levitical priesthood ended (at Calvary, or at least in the year 70AD when the temple was destroyed), all laws that established that priesthood were canceled. If Numbers 18 wasn't canceled, we would still be under the Levitical priesthood.

Those who argue they didn't have money or income then really need to study the scriptures. They had money and wages, even in Genesis. The farmers had income from barter exchanges, and they had markets to buy and sell as proven in Deuteronomy 14:24-26.

Those who argue Malachi 3:8, robbing God, need to start with verse 7. God is talking about His ordinances in Numbers 18 which we learned were disannulled according to Hebrews 7:18. Also, if you start with Malachi 1, you will see that God is speaking to the priests, not the people. The priests robbed God of the tithe (Nehemiah 13) and the priests robbed God of the offerings (Malachi 1).

We are to GIVE, not pay tithes, in the Christian Church. Generous, sacrificial GIVING.

BestBeWishing,

Malachi 3:10: "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse,that there may be meat in mine house...

1 - The people took the tithe to the Levities to go INTO THEIR CITIES (the Levitical cities) NOT to the Temple.
2 - After that, the Levites were commanded to take a tenth of the tithe to the Temple for the priests. That tenth of the tithe is the ONLY tithe that went to the Temple; thus, the ONLY part that went to the Storehouse.

This is verified in Nehemiah 10:37-38 which ALSO proves that firstfruits have NOTHING to do with the tithe as the firstfruits went to the priests while the tithe was taken to the Levites.

Now let's examine Malachi 3:10 by using the Strongs Hebrew Dictionary.

The word "meat" was translated from a Hebrew word that means FOOD. Meat does NOT mean God's Word - that is a lie that pastors love to use to try to fleece their flock.

"Mine house" means THE Temple, which the Spirit of God lived, NOT a church building. Our bodies are now the Temple, and the Spirit lives with us.

The pouring out a blessing means RAIN. The tithe came from the crops. The blessing was the RAIN.

See how pastors twist the scriptures to read in a way to BRING IN THE MONEY? Pastors have fallen in love with the tithe. It has corrupted the Christian Church. Thank God that not all denominations fall for this lie. In fact, not all Baptist pastors teach tithing, but most do. Some teach the truth, and some teach a lie.

I, myself, stay away from churches that teach lies.

Rather than take time to post these and other scripture, I'll just quote them and summarize.

Tithing was not and could not be money; it was from agriculture. The tithe was for support of the Levitical Priesthood and the needy. The priests couldn't own land, etc., and a part of the tithe was to be partaken of by the tither when presented. There's much more, but tithing was abrogated.

NT giving is to cheerful and without restraint. Tithes were paid; offerings are given.

So... Give 10% if you want, or more; but don't "pay" tithes. There is no temple or city or non-land-owning Levitical Priesthood, etc. And the needy were provided for out of the tithes. The needy weren't to pay a tithe; they receiced OF the tithes.

And stop misusing and abusing Malachi to guilt others into returning to the weak and beggarly elements of the Law.

Give with a cheerful heart. Don't pay tithes.

 

[superdave5221]

The ONLY way to settle the issue of tithing is to study The Word and see, in history, when tithing began in the Christian Church.

Let's start with the history. NO CHURCH taught tithing on one's income until the second half of the 1800s, and even then, history shows the motivation was MONEY, not scripture.

Now, let's look at tithing in the Bible.

The first time tithe is mentioned in the Bible is Abraham's tithe of pagan spoils of war, and Abraham kept NOTHING for himself. This was NOT an act of worship. The goods that Abraham gave the tenth from didn’t even belong to Abraham:

Genesis 14:21 (NIV) - The king of Sodom said to Abram, “Give me the people and keep the goods for yourself.”

Notice in verse 21 the king of Sodom didn’t ask Abraham if he would give back to him the people, but rather said GIVE ME the people and keep the goods for yourself. The way that is worded indicates that the king of Sodom was claiming that the people and the goods belonged to him and those he represented.

Genesis 14:22-24 (NIV) - 22But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “I have raised my hand to the LORD, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth, and have taken an oath 23that I will accept nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or the thong of a sandal, so that you will never be able to say, ‘I made Abram rich.’ 24I will accept nothing but what my men have eaten and the share that belongs to the men who went with me—to Aner, Eshcol and Mamre. Let them have their share.”


Notice in verses 23 and 24 Abraham also acknowledges that the goods belonged to the king of Sodom and those he represented.

Therefore, it is clear that both the king of Sodom and Abraham acknowledged that the spoils of war did NOT belong to Abraham, yet he gave a tenth of the spoils to King Melchizedek. This would seem that Abraham did something wrong, if not even illegal, but Biblical historians agree that it was custom in Abraham's day to give the king a tenth of the war spoils. Had Abraham not given the tenth, he would have gone against custom.

Conclusion: Abraham did NOT give a tenth of his income, or his wealth. Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils of war that didn’t belong to him. That is NOT an example for Christians to follow today.

The next mention of a tithe is Jacob's VOW to tithe. Jacob set the conditions, not God. Nowhere in The Word does it tell us that Jacob actually tithed. Genesis 28:10-22

Next is The Lord's Tithe. God gave His definition as a tenth of crops and animals which came from God's hand, not man's income. God NEVER commanded anyone to tithe on anything that man made or earned. Leviticus 27:30-33.

The ordinances (instructions, or laws) for The Lord's Tithe are in Numbers 18. God gave strict orders to take His tithe to the Levites. God NEVER changed that command. Anyone who takes God's tithe to anyone other than the Levites is being disobedient to God's Word.

There are others tithes in the Bible such as the Festival Tithe and the Tithe for the Poor. It is The Lord's Tithe that churches pattern their teaching after.

Church leaders ignore God's definition of His tithe, and ignore God's ordinances for His tithe. They change the words to fit their pocket book. This is nothing but manipulation of God's Word. They are false teachers.

The Bible CLEARLY SHOWS that the tithe ENDED at the cross in the Book of Hebrews. In the first nine verses of Hebrews 7 the words tenth or tithes appears SEVEN TIMES. The ONLY place in the Bible, after Calvary, that tithing appears is in Hebrews 7.

In Hebrews 7:5 we are told that Levi (the Levites) took the tithes under the law. In Hebrews 7:12 we are told that when the priesthood changes, the law will change. Hebrews 7:18 is telling us that Numbers 18 was disannulled. Numbers 18 established the Levitical priesthood, and part of that establishing included tithing. When the Levitical priesthood ended (at Calvary, or at least in the year 70AD when the temple was destroyed), all laws that established that priesthood were canceled. If Numbers 18 wasn't canceled, we would still be under the Levitical priesthood.

Those who argue they didn't have money or income then really need to study the scriptures. They had money and wages, even in Genesis. The farmers had income from barter exchanges, and they had markets to buy and sell as proven in Deuteronomy 14:24-26.

Those who argue Malachi 3:8, robbing God, need to start with verse 7. God is talking about His ordinances in Numbers 18 which we learned were disannulled according to Hebrews 7:18. Also, if you start with Malachi 1, you will see that God is speaking to the priests, not the people. The priests robbed God of the tithe (Nehemiah 13) and the priests robbed God of the offerings (Malachi 1).

We are to GIVE, not pay tithes, in the Christian Church. Generous, sacrificial GIVING.

Amen brother! It is interesting that so many people in here who preach continually about the fact that we are no longer under the law, and that we are saved by faith alone, yet they will point to the LAW of tithing and say we must do it. Tithing was part of the Mosaic Covenant, and is not found anywhere in the N.T.

However, Paul said that we are to support our elders and evangelists.

1 Timothy 5: 17 The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING," and "The laborer is worthy of his wages."

But this is not done through a law of tithing. It is accomplished through Christian love. We should give as we are able, through love, not because we have to because of the law of a covenant, which never applied to us, but to the nation of Israel.

See also Matthew 25: 31-46.

Many who are hard of heart, use the "law of tithing" to limit their giving to 10%, while enjoying the "honor" of having done their duty to God. They have received their reward.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen brother! It is interesting that so many people in here who preach continually about the fact that we are no longer under the law, and that we are saved by faith alone, yet they will point to the LAW of tithing and say we must do it. Tithing was part of the Mosaic Covenant, and is not found anywhere in the N.T.

However, Paul said that we are to support our elders and evangelists.

1 Timothy 5: 17 The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING," and "The laborer is worthy of his wages."

But this is not done through a law of tithing. It is accomplished through Christian love. We should give as we are able, through love, not because we have to because of the law of a covenant, which never applied to us, but to the nation of Israel.

See also Matthew 25: 31-46.

Many who are hard of heart, use the "law of tithing" to limit their giving to 10%, while enjoying the "honor" of having done their duty to God. They have received their reward.

A tithe was a federal income tax of All Israel, which was not even all money, it was everything they had. It was given to the temple, and ALL the tribe of levi, who were not aloud to work.

As you said, I can find no where where God commands the Church take a federal income tax of ten % of all things. Not to mention. Most people who try to push tithing do not even properly tithe. They give 10 % of their money. But not their land, their crops and all they own.

 

[superdave5221]

A tithe was a federal income tax of All Israel, which was not even all money, it was everything they had. It was given to the temple, and ALL the tribe of levi, who were not aloud to work.

As you said, I can find no where where God commands the Church take a federal income tax of ten % of all things. Not to mention. Most people who try to push tithing do not even properly tithe. They give 10 % of their money. But not their land, their crops and all they own.

Yes, Yes, and Yes. You forgot one. One that we don't own. 10% or our time. Although, actually, we should be giving 100% of that by making sure that everything we do is consistent with God's will.

(technically we don't "own" anything, except our "choice" to accept or deny Christ, and Calvinists deny us even that, but you know what I mean)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, Yes, and Yes. You forgot one. One that we don't own. 10% or our time. Although, actually, we should be giving 100% of that by making sure that everything we do is consistent with God's will.

(technically we don't "own" anything, except our "choice" to accept or deny Christ, and Calvinists deny us even that, but you know what I mean)

Yes on everything including "choice"

God does not force anyone to do anything, including believe or reject him. Then again, Satan wants us to think this, for it is a part of his lie.

 

[resurrection33]

Deuteronomy 14:22-29 (The Message)



22-26 Make an offering of ten percent, a tithe, of all the produce which grows in your fields year after year. Bring this into the Presence of God, your God, at the place he designates for worship and there eat the tithe from your grain, wine, and oil and the firstborn from your herds and flocks. In this way you will learn to live in deep reverence before God, your God, as long as you live. But if the place God, your God, designates for worship is too far away and you can't carry your tithe that far, God, your God, will still bless you: exchange your tithe for money and take the money to the place God, your God, has chosen to be worshiped. Use the money to buy anything you want: cattle, sheep, wine, or beer—anything that looks good to you. You and your family can then feast in the Presence of God, your God, and have a good time.
27 Meanwhile, don't forget to take good care of the Levites who live in your towns; they won't get any property or inheritance of their own as you will. 28-29 At the end of every third year, gather the tithe from all your produce of that year and put it aside in storage. Keep it in reserve for the Levite who won't get any property or inheritance as you will, and for the foreigner, the orphan, and the widow who live in your neighborhood. That way they'll have plenty to eat and God, your God, will bless you in all your work.

You should be as generous to your church as you can afford to be. You also have to make sure your kids are fed and well taken care of.

 

[Crazy4GODword]

that too i agree, your family comes first before the Church....but not God...for God is our top priority....it is hard for some people