The Trinity Discussion

[MattforJesus]

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

One God who is a Holy Spirit,Father a title for God,the Son is the man Christ Jesus.

3 relationships God has with His children designated by titles.

Father-parent of the saints,and Father of spirits.

Son-God's visible relationship to the saints.

Holy Spirit-God's invisible relationship to the saints.

But the same God with no distinction of persons.

They say there is 3 persons in one God,so that would seem like it would take all 3 persons to make one God,but then say God the Father,God the Son,and God the Holy Spirit,meaning there is 3 Gods.

So is there 3 persons in one God,or 3 Gods.

God said thou shalt have no other gods before Me,and does believing in a trinity give glory to God.

When the Roman Empire embraced Christianity they did not get rid of their religious ways,and held unto them,and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scripture,which a trinity is well known in pagan religions,and a female goddess.

It appears when the Protestant movement happened that they did not protest enough,and to this day.

Old Testamnent the Father said,I will reveal My new name to the Jews,and speak to them,behold it is I.

Jesus said He came in His Father's name.

The Son shall be called the everlasting Father,and Jesus said if you seen Him you have seen the Father,and the words He speaks are not of His own,but the Father that dwells in Him,He does the works.

Jesus said when He resurrects to heaven do not ask Him anything,but only ask the Father,but in another passage of scripture Jesus said,when He resurrects to heaven to ask Him,and He will do it.

The Son shall be called Jesus,for He shall save His people from their sins,and the Son inherited the name of the Father.

Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

The name of Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,is Jesus.Jews,Gentiles,and Samaritans,in the book of Acts were baptized in Jesus' name,and Luke says baptism,remission of sins,is to be preached in Jesus' name.

Baptism in Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,was interpreted as in Jesus' name,and Jesus is telling them not to make a trinity,for He created all things,came in flesh,and dwells in the saints,for He said,I will not leave you comfortless,but I will come to you.

Right hand of God represents power,wisdom,and salvation.

There is one throne in heaven,and one who sits on the throne,which is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

There is one God,and mediator between God and men,the man Christ,for only a sinless man can be the Savior.

No person is sinless so God manifest Himself in flesh,and reconciled mankind to Himself in the person of Jesus Christ,God and man in harmony.

Jesus said all power is given unto Him in heaven and earth.

David said,the LORD said unto my Lord,sit on My right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.

The Son must reign until all His enemies are conquered,the last one being death,and when they are conquered,then the Son shall submit to God,the Father,that God may be all in all.

God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power,be at His right hand,until His enemies are conquered,then when they are conquered the Son shall submit to the Father,cease exercising the throne of power,stop being at the right hand,that God may be all in all.

God is ruling through the man Christ Jesus for the sake of His saints,but one day the Son being at the right hand will cease.

Jesus is the only person we will see in heaven,which if we see Jesus we have seen the Father,the only visible manifestation of God we will see.

Let us make man in our image.

God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future,it is the same as if it happened in the beginning,for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.

The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.

The prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world.

All the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Adam created in the image of God.Adam was made after the figure of Him who was to come.

The image of God is Jesus Christ that God made Adam after that image.

God had the plan to come in the future manifest in flesh,before He created Adam,and created Adam in that image that he would show up in the future,an innocent nature in flesh.

Since God had the plan to come in the future in flesh,and created Adam in that image,then Let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus.

Let us make man in our image is a prophetic statement to the coming Son of God,and is God,and the man Christ Jesus,which the man Christ Jesus can exist in the beginning before He is born,for God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened.

 

[Bronson]

But the Bible teaches a triune God, it is you who are ignorant.

Acts 20:28 Take heed to yourselves, and to all the flock, in the which the Holy Ghost has made you bishops, to feed the church of God, which He purchased with his own blood.

Pay attention to yourselves+ and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers,+ to shepherd the congregation of God,+ which he purchased with the blood of his own Son.+


Tit 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ;

while we wait for the happy hope+ and glorious manifestation of the great God and of our Savior, Jesus Christ, [SUP]14 [/SUP] who gave himself for us+ to set us free*+ from every sort of lawlessness and to cleanse for himself a people who are his own special possession, zealous for fine works.+

So, if you say Bluto and Bronson it means that they are both one and the same??????


2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:

Who denies that Jesus is a God. He can be a god and a saviour and a carpenter and a Nazerine Does that make those I mentioned included in your trinity?


Rev 22:12-13 Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
(Compare 1.8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, which is and which was and which is to come, the Almighty).


Heb 1:8-9 but of the Son he says, Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows


Col 2.8-9 and not after Christ: for in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,


Php 2:5-11 Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient even to death, yea, the death of the cross. Wherefore also God highly exalted Him, and gave to Him the name which is above every name; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

So boring, so impossible. Why do I bother.

 

[Bronson]

Well gdyloves, if you don't believe Jesus is GOD why does the Apostle Thomas say that Jesus Christ is his "Lord and God" at John 20:28? Furthermore, why does not Jesus after hearing the declaration of Thomas not correct Thomas and say he is to worship God alone.

Secondly, on what basis did the Pharisees want to kill Jesus at John 5:17,18" "But He/Jesus answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." Vs18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because he not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD." Please explain and welcome to CC.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

You are like a hungry fox terrier, you will jump at anything. There is a song "He's his own Grandpa, by Phil Harris, look it up Bluto you are sure to get some bits for your trinity there."

 

[trofimus]

So boring, so impossible. Why do I bother.

Interesting reaction to 7 Bible verses.

 

[trofimus]

Well bluto I guess we differ in opinions, and that's ok.

But let me ask you something. When Jesus was on the cross and yelled out "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? " who was he talking to?

To Father.

Also, He was quoting Psalm and so saying He is a Messiah.

 

[trofimus]

you are here to try to destroy anyone who won't support your point of view, you are a cherry picker and yet you throw away the best cherries of all, the saying of Jesus himsef.

We are on a Christian forum and you came with a heretic teaching here, saying that Jesus is not God, which contradicts not only the teaching of the Church for 2000 years, but also the Bible as proved to you many times.

And you say I am the one trying to destroy something here... ok, makes sense.

Maybe you can leave and get to your own people of the similar opinion as you have so that you will not be so "destroyed" by our arguments anymore.

 

[Dagallen]

I notice you did not answer the Scripture that I gave. As usual you ignore the Scriptures and write irrelevant nonsense..

You are nothing more than a hard head that thinks you know it all, I gave you the answer you needed but you were to blind to see.

 

[Dagallen]

We are on a Christian forum and you came with a heretic teaching here, saying that Jesus is not God, which contradicts not only the teaching of the Church for 2000 years, but also the Bible as proved to you many times.

And you say I am the one trying to destroy something here... ok, makes sense.

Maybe you can leave and get to your own people of the similar opinion as you have so that you will not be so "destroyed" by our arguments anymore.

Arguments, yes that's what people like you, really enjoy and what church teaches what you say ? Yes this is a Christian forum that's full of sinners, me heretic ? That's something a Roman Catholic supporter would say.

 

[trofimus]

Arguments, yes that's what people like you, really enjoy and what church teaches what you say ? Yes this is a Christian forum that's full of sinners, me heretic ? That's something a Roman Catholic supporter would say.

You came to us, attack our belief and complain that we use arguments to prove we are right and you are wrong?

If you are so weak psychically, you should not get involved into internet discussions.

 

[Dagallen]

Weak, I like a good laugh ! I am not attacking the traditional beliefs you clearly support, I just don't support your interpretation of scriptures or history and you can't handle that, you post a scripture and I respond with scriptures, you just can't handle challenge, if you can't convert me, what's the odds you could convert anyone ? ? Not likely, you don't draw people but drive people away and why is that ? Because you think you are right and never wrong, maybe just maybe you should go back to school, start by learning the meaning of words used in old text, that might understand the meaning of the word " and " learn what the word " proverb " means, here a good word for you " fire " what's the spiritual meaning of fire ? Good luck !

 

[trofimus]

Weak, I like a good laugh ! I am not attacking the traditional beliefs you clearly support, I just don't support your interpretation of scriptures or history and you can't handle that, you post a scripture and I respond with scriptures, you just can't handle challenge, if you can't convert me, what's the odds you could convert anyone ? ? Not likely, you don't draw people but drive people away and why is that ? Because you think you are right and never wrong, maybe just maybe you should go back to school, start by learning the meaning of words used in old text, that might understand the meaning of the word " and " learn what the word " proverb " means, here a good word for you " fire " what's the spiritual meaning of fire ? Good luck !

Ok, you are a clever guy again.

So I will ask you again - give us a full and properly defined belief of yours about God, about Jesus, about the Holy Spirit etc.

It must stand at least few minutes before you run away when we post verses about the deity of Christ.

Thanks.

 

[Dagallen]

Ok, you are a clever guy again.

So I will ask you again - give us a full and properly defined belief of yours about God, about Jesus, about the Holy Spirit etc.

It must stand at least few minutes before you run away when we post verses about the deity of Christ.

Thanks.

I'm at work at the moment, I am on break. Why don't you try to have an open and honest debate, instead of trying to control everything and everybody. In short, my belief is simple, The only true God is the Father, his Spirit is Holy, therefore the Holy Spirit, God the Father and the Holy Spirit is the one and only true God. So that covers God, the Father and the Holy Spirit, one God only. Jesus Christ is the first begotten and the last begotten, begotten of the one and only God, his God and Father, very simple to understand.

 

[MattforJesus]

It throws some people off when people say that Jesus is God,for they will say how can that be when God is an omnipresent Spirit,and flesh is not part of His essence.

1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

But the Bible says that no person has ever seen Jesus,and no person will ever see Jesus,because He is an invisible Spirit,that showed a visible manifestation of Himself.

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Jesus cannot be a created God,for there was no God formed after God,and there is no such thing as deity apart from God,or a created God,for all things are made of physical matter.

Jesus has to be the one true God.

Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Isa 59:12 For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them;
Isa 59:13 In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
Isa 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
Isa 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
Isa 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
Isa 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
Isa 59:18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.
Isa 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

Isa 35:4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.
Isa 35:5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
Isa 35:6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

It will be God Himself that will save His people from their sins.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Isa 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed.
Isa 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

The Son,the man Christ Jesus is the personal human body of God.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

1Jn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Jesus is God Himself showing a visible manifestation of Himself,and laid down His human life for the saints,and purchased the Church with His own blood.

Joh 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell.

Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

God manifest in the flesh means that God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus,and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God,for God cannot be separated.

The Son does not have His own personal Spirit that moves around with Him,for there cannot be a spot void of the Spirit,and a double portion in another spot,but He walks through the Spirit,and where ever He is at the Spirit is there,the same as the saints.

There is only one throne in heaven,and one who sits on it,and it is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus,and God's visible relationship to the saints for all eternity.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Psa 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

God's right hand represents power,wisdom,and salvation.The man Christ Jesus is our Savior,no man is sinless so God manifest Himself in the flesh,and God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power,be at His right hand,until His enemies are conquered,then when they are conquered,the Son shall stop exercising the throne of power,not be at right hand,that God may be all in all.

God is ruling through the man Christ Jesus for the sake of the saints.

Jesus is God,and the only way we can see the invisible God,and the way He reconciled the world unto Himself,and His visible relationship to the saints.

That is why people that deny the Son,deny the Father,for Jesus is God Himself.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

you mean these?
Mat 3:17 and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


Matt 11:27 All things have been delivered to me by my Father: and no one knows the Son, except the Father; neither does anyone know the Father, except the Son, and he to whomever the Son wills to reveal him.


Mat 28:19 Go you therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:


Joh 5:21-23 For as the Father raises the dead and quickens them, even so the Son also quickens whom he will. For neither does the Father judge any man, but he has given all judgment to the Son; that all may honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He who honours not the Son honours not the Father who sent him.


Joh 8:12 Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, I am the light of the world: he who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.


Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


Joh 10:27-30 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give to them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.


Joh 12:44-45 And Jesus cried and said, He who believes on me, believes not on me, but on him who sent me. And he that sees me sees him who sent me.


Joh 14:7-11 If you had known me, ye would have known my Father also: from henceforth you know him, and have seen him. Philip says to him, Lord, show us the Father, and it suffices us. Jesus says to him, Have I been so long time with you, and do you not know me, Philip? he who has seen me has seen the Father; how do you say, Show us the Father? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I say to you I speak not from myself: but the Father abiding in me does his works.


Joh 15:23 He who hates me hates my Father also.


Joh 16:14-15 He shall glorify me: for he shall take of mine, and shall declare it to you. All things whatever the Father has are mine: therefore said I, that he takes of mine, and shall declare it to you.


Joh 17:4-5 I glorified you on the earth, having accomplished the work which you have given me to do. And now, O Father, you glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was.


Joh 20:28 Thomas answered and said to him, My Lord and my God.

Acts 20:28 Take heed to yourselves, and to all the flock, in the which the Holy Ghost has made you bishops, to feed the church of God, which He purchased with his own blood.


Tit 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ;


2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:


Rev 22:12-13 Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
(Compare 1.8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, which is and which was and which is to come, the Almighty).


Heb 1:8-9 but of the Son he says, Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows


Col 2.8-9 and not after Christ: for in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,


Php 2:5-11 Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient even to death, yea, the death of the cross. Wherefore also God highly exalted Him, and gave to Him the name which is above every name; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father

.

None of this proves Jesus is God it proves he's Gods son...
2 different beings..

He is stated clearly to be God in a number of verses. In others He is revealed as the ONLY Son of God. Both mean that He was God come in the flesh.

But the 'god of this world' is expert at blinding people's eyes (2 Cor 4.4-6)

 

[valiant]

I'm at work at the moment, I am on break. Why don't you try to have an open and honest debate, instead of trying to control everything and everybody. In short, my belief is simple, The only true God is the Father, his Spirit is Holy, therefore the Holy Spirit, God the Father and the Holy Spirit is the one and only true God. So that covers God, the Father and the Holy Spirit, one God only. Jesus Christ is the first begotten and the last begotten, begotten of the one and only God, his God and Father, very simple to understand.

How can Jesus be begotten of the Father and yet not be of the same nature as the Father i.e. God?

 

[garee]

They say there is 3 persons in one God,so that would seem like it would take all 3 persons to make one God,but then say God the Father,God the Son,and God the Holy Spirit,meaning there is 3 Gods.

So is there 3 persons in one God,or 3 Gods.

God said thou shalt have no other gods before Me,and does believing in a trinity give glory to God.

God is not a man (father and Son) as us. Two attributes not two actual persons of the same one Spirit working together in perfect harmony and submission to one another brining the peace of God that surpasses all human logic .You could call it the dynamic duel.... some call it the trinity

 

[heartofdavid]

AKAP Banned

Also know as banned

AKAB

 

[heartofdavid]

I'm at work at the moment, I am on break. Why don't you try to have an open and honest debate, instead of trying to control everything and everybody. In short, my belief is simple, The only true God is the Father, his Spirit is Holy, therefore the Holy Spirit, God the Father and the Holy Spirit is the one and only true God. So that covers God, the Father and the Holy Spirit, one God only. Jesus Christ is the first begotten and the last begotten, begotten of the one and only God, his God and Father, very simple to understand.

WATCHTOWER DOCTRINE BIG TIME.

 

[heartofdavid]

It throws some people off when people say that Jesus is God,for they will say how can that be when God is an omnipresent Spirit,and flesh is not part of His essence.

1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

But the Bible says that no person has ever seen Jesus,and no person will ever see Jesus,because He is an invisible Spirit,that showed a visible manifestation of Himself.

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Jesus cannot be a created God,for there was no God formed after God,and there is no such thing as deity apart from God,or a created God,for all things are made of physical matter.

Jesus has to be the one true God.

Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Isa 59:12 For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them;
Isa 59:13 In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
Isa 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
Isa 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
Isa 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
Isa 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
Isa 59:18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.
Isa 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

Isa 35:4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.
Isa 35:5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
Isa 35:6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

It will be God Himself that will save His people from their sins.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Isa 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed.
Isa 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

The Son,the man Christ Jesus is the personal human body of God.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

1Jn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Jesus is God Himself showing a visible manifestation of Himself,and laid down His human life for the saints,and purchased the Church with His own blood.

Joh 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell.

Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

God manifest in the flesh means that God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus,and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God,for God cannot be separated.

The Son does not have His own personal Spirit that moves around with Him,for there cannot be a spot void of the Spirit,and a double portion in another spot,but He walks through the Spirit,and where ever He is at the Spirit is there,the same as the saints.

There is only one throne in heaven,and one who sits on it,and it is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus,and God's visible relationship to the saints for all eternity.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Psa 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

God's right hand represents power,wisdom,and salvation.The man Christ Jesus is our Savior,no man is sinless so God manifest Himself in the flesh,and God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power,be at His right hand,until His enemies are conquered,then when they are conquered,the Son shall stop exercising the throne of power,not be at right hand,that God may be all in all.

God is ruling through the man Christ Jesus for the sake of the saints.

Jesus is God,and the only way we can see the invisible God,and the way He reconciled the world unto Himself,and His visible relationship to the saints.

That is why people that deny the Son,deny the Father,for Jesus is God Himself.

No,the father is not the son.

God did not manifest himself in the son.

The son was with the father from eternity past.

The Father did not become the son. The Son became man.

Jesus became man,he emptied himself of his glorified form to become man,and the Father observed from heaven.

 

[Marcelo]

In the same way that both predestination and free will are truths, Jesus is God and also the son of God. What matters is to obey them.