Whose Faith? Ours or Jesus'?

[Rosemaryx]

But you are a new creation in Christ. We have died and are now born again by faith in the Son of God. We're saved by grace through faith.

He gives us everything we need for life and godliness, but it's our faith because He gives it to us. Righteousness is imputed to us and so we walk in righteousness.

It's His righteousness that He gives us, He adds it to our account. We are now partakers of the divine nature and so because we are, we will walk in truth, in righteousness and holiness.

​Jesus doesn't tell us to count of His faithfulness, He tells us to be faithful. If you read some of the others posts, one of the examples is when Jesus says that your faith has made you whole.

So it's my faith in Him that heals me, that causes me to walk in righteousness and holiness. There's a co-operation with the Spirit that works within us and empowers us to say no to sin. When we don't say no, it's our flesh that's sinning and we need to ask for forgiveness. He convicts us of our sin so that we can confess our sins and be cleansed of all unrighteousness.

So when God says for me to obey, I'm doing the obeying, not Jesus. When He tells me to love my brother, I'm to love my brother. Jesus isn't doing the loving. He gives me the love so that I can love others.

So maybe this is a reformation teaching?

Hi DR...I had a a nice surprize a few days ago from our Father God...He told me that He has given me a gift of faith...I have been walking with our Lord for these past 22 months feeling shaky more then feeling secure, It was making me miserable in my walk, I asked God to show me why I feel this way, and He told me He has given me His gift called faith, well once I looked up the word faith, my whole walk has changed, He now has me seeking Him to find out who I am in Christ, and now I am walking in my faith, a precious gift from God and I am using it...Knowing my faith is a gift from God has secured me from being shaky...His gift of faith to me is mine to have faith in Him, trusting, leaning and relying on Him, when I put my faith in Him, He will grow my faith through Him when I show my faithfulness in trials and tribulations...Correct me if I am wrong, I am stretching out here and eager to learn...xox...

 

[Rosemaryx]

Rosemary,

Lynn (Depleated) is giving you sound advice.

When you listen to teaching you will do well to focus on how much attention the teacher seeks to focus on himself as compared with the attention he seeks to focus on the Lord. If you see a lot of I's and me's you should probably pick someone else to listen to.

Thank you Marc, that is sound advice to my ears...xox...

 

[7seasrekeyed]

heads up sure

I broke that news way before Lynn

whatever

Swaggart is the old time Pentecostal and so is his son

the name message of the cross should have given that away because that is the name of their program

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I've heard people argue that it's faith "of" Jesus Christ and not our faith before when quoting Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Yet other translations read faith in Jesus Christ.. (NKJV, ESV, NIV, NAS etc..).

In 1 Peter 1:9, we read - receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls.

So it's our faith, yet although we are responsible to believe and will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving faith is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us in (John 6:44) and enables us/unless it has been granted to him by My Father (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to Christ all by ourselves.

The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God.

I illustrated why this is so

there are all kinds of faith in scripture and you have to ignore them in order to say that it is the faith of God

people run over posts and do not even know what they believe

yet criticize someone just because it's a personal grudge or ignore what is posted and then when someone else posts the same thing they are all over it ..

not saying this to you...you remain polite

 

[7seasrekeyed]

If it is God faith, unsaved is God fault not the man fault,

if there is a killer it is God fault not the killer fault. God do not let the killer to borrow His faith.

I understand what you are saying

you are right and people overlook it because English is not your first language

some denominations teach that everything that happens is already planned which is nonsense IMO

if you eat cornflakes for breakfast, God ordained it

if a child is killed by a car, God ordained it

and everyone that does not believe just like that must be stupid or perhaps not even saved

segregation is alive and well in this forum, not to mention the cliques and clubs that are formed to injure someone they don't care for

sorry...you may not actually get all of that

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I am gobsmacked on how many didn't know it is God's faith, not ours.

Has the word imputed gone completely out of style now?

that is actually a Calvinist position

some of us are gobsmacked that you actually do believe it

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen, DC.


Galatians 6:13-14
For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh. But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.


Paul gloried in the cross because he was identifying with the death of Jesus. He's been crucified to the world and the world to him.


Paul's boasting in the fact that what was meant for death, did actually bring death brought life anew in Christ.

Amen......and in reality it brought both death and life.....death of the old man and resurrected a new creation in Christ Jesus......and this is the victory that overcomes the world.....EVEN OUR FAITH

 

[John146]

I illustrated why this is so

there are all kinds of faith in scripture and you have to ignore them in order to say that it is the faith of God

people run over posts and do not even know what they believe

yet criticize someone just because it's a personal grudge or ignore what is posted and then when someone else posts the same thing they are all over it ..

not saying this to you...you remain polite

Man's faith is our obedience unto the Lord through Scripture. One is already justified through believing the gospel.

Christ's faith is what justifies the believer. When a man puts his belief in the death, burial and resurrection for sin, that man is justified by the faith of Christ. Christ's faith was demonstrated by His obedience unto death, even the death of the cross. He did all the work for justification sake.

Check out the faith of the Roman believers:

Romans 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Throughout the world, people are talking about how the Christians at Rome are living out their justified life through obedience. All believers are given a measure of faith. One's individual faith does not justify, but allows the believer to live a sanctified life.

Romans 16:19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

Again, people are hearing about their obedience.

 

[1ofthem]

Oh wow...So scary, I really liked what the poster wrote, I won`t go any further, will stick to what the Holy Spirit is teaching me, it`s scary stepping out, not knowing who is safe to listen to when man talks...xox...

You've got it right there, you can't go wrong sticking to what the Lord is teaching you....Look straight to the Lord and let him teach you. We don't put our faith and confidence in men because they can make mistakes and fail, but the Lord never fails...The Lord taught me, when I got saved, not to look to the left or the right, but to look straight ahead and he would teach me...

Not saying that we can't learn from others...just saying, we put all of our confidence in the Lord, study his word, and listen directly to him...and he will not let us be misled...

 

[Jackson123]

I've heard people argue that it's faith "of" Jesus Christ and not our faith before when quoting Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Yet other translations read faith in Jesus Christ.. (NKJV, ESV, NIV, NAS etc..).

In 1 Peter 1:9, we read - receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls.

So it's our faith, yet although we are responsible to believe and will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving faith is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us in (John 6:44) and enables us/unless it has been granted to him by My Father (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to Christ all by ourselves.

The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God.

I believe the Father is just. The Father not on random choose which, I believe there is a certain criteria.

it may because a man is believe to His son then the Father give it to Jesus.

let Bible interpreted itself.

bible said, who believe will save

 

[1ofthem]

I believe the Father is just. The Father not on random choose which, I believe there is a certain criteria.

it may because a man is believe to His son then the Father give it to Jesus.

let Bible interpreted itself.

bible said, who believe will save

[h=1]John 3:15-16King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 10:9-10
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[1ofthem]

I believe the Father is just. The Father not on random choose which, I believe there is a certain criteria.

it may because a man is believe to His son then the Father give it to Jesus.

let Bible interpreted itself.

bible said, who believe will save

Amen...The Word of God speaks for its self...WE Don't need Calvin or any other man reforming it for us Just saying....

 

[Depleted]

We posted at the same time.

How will the Lord say, "well done thou good and faithful servant?"

With great joy? Sorry, I'm not getting the question.

If parents give their child a car for their 16th birthday, whose car is it?

You can say it's the child's, however, if the child is reckless or does something that displeases the parents, it doesn't stay their car. And the parents are likely the ones whose name is on the registration, so they can pay the insurance, and take away that car, if they so choose.

God gave us the faith. He is responsible for that faith. He teaches us how to use that faith. Read those links, because most of what has been said about faith has everything to do how we use it, and very little to do with who owns it.

God owns us! He gives us what we need so we can move in his ownership. He does that because he loves us, but we are HIS! And we have purpose in HIM.

I'm not kidding. I really have forgotten what it means to think of anything about God in terms of "What must I do now?" I don't think "must do." I think "want to do." Even there, I'm fully aware he gave me that too.

Imputed.

It's kind of a bookkeeping word. Jesus has the credit column. We have the debt column. Jesus gave us eternity in God, life, and heaven. We gave him separation from God, death, and hell. We gave him our complete ineptness. He gives us his ability. He paid our bill! And it was as high a cost as possible.

Both columns balance perfectly, but the finances all came from him, not us. Everything! Hope, love, faith, ability, everything. Why would we want to go back to how it used to be? We were incompetent beggars given home, family, and love.

 

[Depleted]

But you are a new creation in Christ. We have died and are now born again by faith in the Son of God. We're saved by grace through faith.

He gives us everything we need for life and godliness, but it's our faith because He gives it to us. Righteousness is imputed to us and so we walk in righteousness.

It's His righteousness that He gives us, He adds it to our account. We are now partakers of the divine nature and so because we are, we will walk in truth, in righteousness and holiness.

​Jesus doesn't tell us to count of His faithfulness, He tells us to be faithful. If you read some of the others posts, one of the examples is when Jesus says that your faith has made you whole.

So it's my faith in Him that heals me, that causes me to walk in righteousness and holiness. There's a co-operation with the Spirit that works within us and empowers us to say no to sin. When we don't say no, it's our flesh that's sinning and we need to ask for forgiveness. He convicts us of our sin so that we can confess our sins and be cleansed of all unrighteousness.

So when God says for me to obey, I'm doing the obeying, not Jesus. When He tells me to love my brother, I'm to love my brother. Jesus isn't doing the loving. He gives me the love so that I can love others.

So maybe this is a reformation teaching?

Of course it's reformed teaching! There are only three kinds of teachings -- Catholic, Reformed, a little of both, (which keeps reverting back to what the RCC teaches, so it's really just a subset of Catholic.)

And why did the reformation have to happen? Because the Catholics took the Bible out of the equation.

The Reformers went back to the Bible and saw what was missing. That was the heart of the protest. And they were called "reformers" because they wanted their church to reform back to the Bible, but individual power and cooperate power were at stake. What happens if people aren't responsible for their own salvation? What happens if the holy "Roman" Empire doesn't get vast swathes of money from the guilt of the people? Power is taken!

To this day, people are arguing over their power over God's power and thinking God owes them. In this instants, "God owes us because of our faith."

Not. Even. Ever!

God IS sovereign. (Which means a lot more than the average Christian has in mind too.)

The entire Bible is a record of God. It shows what he wanted, and 20,001 ways people tried to give him what he wanted to appease him while continuing to do their own thing. What it really showed is Man's ineptness and God's sovereignty!

We're inept! Why would we ever want to go back to our skill levels? We never had any skills. That which changed that is God, and he imputes HIS skills onto us. That IS the Good News! Through God we are able!

(Side note. I have been gobsmacked by this entire thread because this is where I realize that all the people who hate "Calvinism" honestly have no idea what it is to make the judgement on hating it. I honestly thought the Arminians understood Calvinism, decided they didn't like it, so dismissed it. Nope. Never knew it to make that decision, yet still made it anyway. Kind of like me deciding E = MC^2 is wrong and evil. I can't, because I cannot understand it enough to make such a decision. lol)

 

[Depleted]

well if you are a Calvinist, it is

Lynn is a Calvanist so for her if you say other than what goes along with that, you are wrong

not going to argue about it with you Lynn. doesn't matter anyway. I'm no Calvinist and never will be

what people believe colors what they believe

if everything is under water, the ship will sink too

however if you can see the ship floating and not part of the water, you may have a chance

understand that or not, it's how it is around here

cessationists, calvinists, armenians and a whole slew more and every single one is certain only they are right

and now some brilliant person will ask what I am

What's right is God!

You, on the other hand, are obviously a dog with sunglasses in the tulips.

One of those statements is 100% right. (Which makes me right 66.6% of the time, at least in this answer.)

 

[Depleted]

You mean Jimmy don't you?

Jimmy also.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

What is "faith"? It is the Greek word pistis and means: 1. conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it; A. relating to God; a. the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ; B. relating to Christ; b. a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God; C. the religious beliefs of Christians; D. belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same; E. fidelity, faithfulness; the character of one who can be relied on (the Latin word from which we get our English word faith - fides) So it seems that faith would be belief, truth or conviction in someone due to that someone's faithfulness

Did God give us "faith"? Did God give us the conviction or trust in his faithfulness or do we attain conviction and trust the more we hear of the many great examples of God's faithfulness to his word? Is "faith" belief in something of which there is no proof? i.e. blind faith - "you just have to take it by faith" - we can't have "trust"/"faith" in something we don't understand and we don't "trust"/"faith" is something that is untrustworthy.

Is "faith" an invisible force that you can manipulate? i.e. power of positive thinking - putting something out there forcing something to happen. (not saying that positive thinking is not good, but to say that we can bring something to pass because of our positive thinking is placing the emphasis on us and not on God, i.e. WOF movement)

I'm just wondering what people's definition of "faith" is? Because to me, biblically, faith is trust, faithfulness, proof, belief, and conviction of truth.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

What's right is God!

You, on the other hand, are obviously a dog with sunglasses in the tulips.

One of those statements is 100% right. (Which makes me right 66.6% of the time, at least in this answer.)

so you equate Calvin with God?

go ahead. after all, you are only a stuffed teddy bear

 

[Depleted]

If it is God faith, unsaved is God fault not the man fault,

if there is a killer it is God fault not the killer fault. God do not let the killer to borrow His faith.

Everything is God's "fault." He is sovereign.

We are responsible for our actions, but you seem stuck thinking God saved you but would never save a murderer. We ALL DESERVE separation from God, death, and hell. God's "fault" that he saved some from what we deserved. AND God's "fault," that he used that murder to further someone else's life, and the lives of his people. Just like it was God's "fault" that he hardened Pharaoh's heart to get himself a people.

Yup, always God's fault. We are responsible, but responsible landed us with a death sentence each and every time.

Stop pardoning God. He doesn't need your pardon. He has always gotten exactly what he wanted for HIS glory and the love of HIS people. He is sovereign!

 

[Jackson123]

Everything is God's "fault." He is sovereign.

We are responsible for our actions, but you seem stuck thinking God saved you but would never save a murderer. We ALL DESERVE separation from God, death, and hell. God's "fault" that he saved some from what we deserved. AND God's "fault," that he used that murder to further someone else's life, and the lives of his people. Just like it was God's "fault" that he hardened Pharaoh's heart to get himself a people.

Yup, always God's fault. We are responsible, but responsible landed us with a death sentence each and every time.

Stop pardoning God. He doesn't need your pardon. He has always gotten exactly what he wanted for HIS glory and the love of HIS people. He is sovereign!

sound like you believe God is cruel. Make a man to be killer and punish. Bible say God is love and just. He give a man choice, choice to believe in Jesus and save or not and punished.