For Calvinists: Do you skip evangelizing because God chooses?

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For Calvinists: Do you skip evangelizing because God chooses?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 2 8.7%
  • No.

    Votes: 21 91.3%

  • Total voters
    23
D

Depleted

Guest
#61
What happened to:
No matter what humans do, the same amount of people are predestined for salvation?
So now we have humans able to prevent the Gospel from spreading? They simply stop. Or do you guys believe the elect just cannot stop preaching the Gospel? That they are forced by God.

I cannot see a way to make this work without it being negated. Also I just tricked myself into "debating" again, even though I said earlier I would not, D'OH! Im sorry i will stop now :D
No trick to it. You saw this was for Calvinists, so you came in here spouted your lies, (four so far), and just continue to spew your crap. Not even a debate. Just crap!
 
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Depleted

Guest
#62
Calvinist do not need pray for salvation, God elect before the foundation of the earth.
Welllll, technically, no one needs to pray for their own salvation. By the time they're doing that, they've already been saved. So, really, we're admitting our guilt, asking for forgiveness, and asking him to bring us more to him -- to change us more into what he wants.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#63
predestined mean He decide before

forseen mean He know before,

I do not understand can be both in the same time
You don't get that God is both omniscient and sovereign? No idea how to teach you that. It's usually something new believers learn early on.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#64
So now lest look at John 3:16-21 so we can take in context after seeing how the context leading up to it has been looked at, we will see how mans will is to love his sin and hate the light and those that follow the truth do it to show that it was do by God, not their will.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

Here is how the footnote of the ESV translates, "For God so loved the world" it helps give us a clearer understanding of what is being said here,
“For this is how God loved the world”. How did God love the world? The Father loved the world in that He gave His Son as a propitiation for the sins of the world, this does not mean that He died for all of the world to be saved or that the world is in the design of the Lord's salvation plan. As in Acts 2:23 “this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.”

Notice the Sons death is for those that believe and as we've seen those that believe is because the Lord caused them to be born again and not by their will but God's. Verse 18 "Whoever believes" many take the word, whoever" to mean that it applies to everyone, bit if we interpret Scripture with Scripture we need to look at Acts 3:39 “For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” Verses 18-20 people are condemned already because they do not believe. It is also that the light came into the world and men ove their sin and heated the light because they love their evil and do npot want it exposed. Verse 21 are those that do what is right come to the light to show that his works have been
“to be accomplished by God.”

Notice it is for those that are far off and everyone that the Lord has called to Himself, it is an open invitation to all, with the application of the atonement being for thos that believe I Timothy 4:10
“For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.”

Yes He is the Savior of the world, but especially of those that believe. I John 4:10 “In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.” Notice that His love for those that believe is in that His Son is a propitiation for our sins. Here it is in reserse order.

I John 2:2 “He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.” Since it is in reverse order it also places the emphasis is on obeying Him, 2:3 “And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.”


John 3:34 “For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure.” Which leads us to John 6:63-65 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.)65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

In and of ourselves we cannot come to the Lord, our flesh is no help life is given by the Spirit as in being born again and it is granted by the Father as we've sen in the other Scriptures.



 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#65
You don't get that God is both omniscient and sovereign? No idea how to teach you that. It's usually something new believers learn early on.
yep, but how those atribut make God predestine and forseen?

To me Either He predestine or forseen
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
63
#66
yep, but how those atribut make God predestine and forseen?

To me Either He predestine or forseen
How do you pray to God to save sinners? Would you please give us an example of your prayer?
 
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Depleted

Guest
#67
He sees into the future like you and I see in the past and knows what is going to happen. Therefore He saw it and Knew it at the Same time!


Actually, God created time, so he doesn't really do before/during/after.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
#68
How do you pray to God to save sinners? Would you please give us an example of your prayer?
like regular prayer. For Example I pray for my son salvation.

simple

Please save my son. In the name of Jesus amen
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,762
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#69
The OP ask an EXCELLENT question and I would wonder,why would a calvinist evangelize If they really believe any one that might hear the WORD of GOD Is already destined for eternal condemnation or eternal life?We walk by faith,not by sight,right?:confused:
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#70
like regular prayer. For Example I pray for my son salvation.

simple

Please save my son. In the name of Jesus amen
When you ask God to save your son, you are showing that its on His will, not on your son's will, do you realize that?
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,762
1,731
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#71
This is a charge rallied around against the Reformed. So, let's see if it has merit.

And, to be clear, this is only for the Reformed, and your name will be visible to avoid playing games with the question.
:confused:
 
Sep 6, 2017
1,331
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#72
No I don't think so, the basic fundamentals should always be practiced, of forgiveness and accepting others, not talking about doctrine or anything, everybody has a choice in agreeing or disagreeing with doctrines, dislike the game but not the player per say.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,691
13,135
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#73
God has chosen that i don't 'skip evangelizing'
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,691
13,135
113
#74
funny thing,

God can predestine you to have free will, and even predestine your free will, having created it -- but you can't freely choose to be chosen, to post-destine that God pre-destined you.

:eek:
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,691
13,135
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#75
Calvinist do not need pray for salvation, God elect before the foundation of the earth.

he elected that i should pray that He save me :rolleyes:

. . so i should pray that He save me!
[SUB][/SUB][SUP][/SUP]
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,691
13,135
113
#76
predestined mean He decide before

forseen mean He know before,

I do not understand can be both in the same time
it is simple:

He knows what He is doing when He creates freedom. it isn't hidden from Him

I am God, and there is no one like Me,
Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things which have not been done,
Saying,
‘My purpose will be established,
And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’

(Isaiah 46:9-10)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,691
13,135
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#77
He sees it. He sees the end of time and the beginning and every part in-between but He doesn't have to 'peer ahead into time' - to avoid surprises or figure out what might happen. He doesn't watch 'the Universe tonight' on cosmic tv to catch up on what happened while He was at work.

He created time, as part of everything He put into time. He doesn't just know all before it happens because of His almighty detective skills - He knows all before because He created the heavens and the earth and every living thing according to His purpose - His will; His good pleasure: He will do all His will, and He knows what will be done because it is His will that is done.



I am God, and there is no one like Me,
Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things which have not been done,
Saying,
‘My purpose will be established,
And I will accomplish all My good pleasure’

(Isaiah 46:9-10)


isn't that awesome??
who is like Him!!
 
Sep 6, 2017
1,331
13
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#78
Five basic things I could improve at , and with evangelizing as well.

[h=3]1. Prayer[/h][h=3]2. Be Joyful and Peaceful[/h][h=3]3. Serve Others[/h][h=3]4. Be the Very Best[/h][h=3]5. Listen Intently[/h]
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,691
13,135
113
#79
your pray not change the status that had been determined before foundation of the earth, why waste time?

Paul disagree may because he believe pray may bring unsave to the Lord.

the status predetermined before foundation of earth is :

need to pray to be changed​



Paul agrees:

For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!

“For who has known the mind of the Lord,
or who has been his counselor?”
“Or who has given a gift to him
that he might be repaid?”

(Romans 11:32-35)



 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,691
13,135
113
#80
Welllll, technically, no one needs to pray for their own salvation. By the time they're doing that, they've already been saved. So, really, we're admitting our guilt, asking for forgiveness, and asking him to bring us more to him -- to change us more into what he wants.

just because at some level i know that technically i can skip directly to thanking and praising Him all the day long, doesn't mean that i always do it.








but sometimes
so far, some times
i do :)