An Increase of Cessationists and Legalists (CC)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 6, 2017
674
12
0
#41
Cessationists are in reality denying the power of Holy Spirit, which is super natural, and have become a group of Christians concerned more with doctrine, than Spirit. Sorry, if I stepped on toes, but is how I see this.
Makes one wonder how many have blasphemed the Holy Spirit and not even realized it. After all, denying the power of the Holy Spirit working through Jesus and attributing it to the devil is what many say is the correct definition of Blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
 
Nov 6, 2017
674
12
0
#42
No offense taken. You and I (and some others) are actually on the same page. What I should have really said is "One cannot..." instead of "You cannot.." which implied that you were misapplying the meaning. As to the rest, it is what it is. Each one has their own way of presenting their thoughts.
Ok Gotcha and thank you. I apologize for my remark to you.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#43
He is pushing buttons and attempting to gather supporters. How blind indeed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Oh?

Something I see all the time by various unnamed ones who post often. IMO. Lol
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#44
Makes one wonder how many have blasphemed the Holy Spirit and not even realized it. After all, denying the power of the Holy Spirit working through Jesus and attributing it to the devil is what many say is the correct definition of Blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
I don't know if I would go that far. Hopefully not.

Why, I say this, is because many speak out of ignorance, not understanding. Or maybe superstition would be a better word.
 
Last edited:
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#48
Cessationists are in reality denying the power of Holy Spirit, which is super natural, and have become a group of Christians concerned more with doctrine, than Spirit.
That's quite the accusation Sis, and a common one, but nonetheless, it is untrue. No cessationist denies the power of the Holy Spirit. For the record, one cannot have or know the Spirit without doctrine about who he is, his attributes &c.

Sorry, if I stepped on toes, but is how I see this.
All toes have been missed! ;)
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#49
Label me a legalist if you wish.. but do not declare all are of the same mind.. and you claim I claim salvation can be lost.. when in fact I said I believe the Lord who states He can blot names and deem some unworthy to walk in white with Him..
No one is worthy to have the eternal wage of their sin atoned for. We are clothed in his righteousness alone. No man could be found with a righteousness of his own self .He does not blot out the names of those who have been born again. What will they do re-enter their mother womb when they are blotted out?

The names of the elect are written in the lamb’s book of life. They were established before the beginning of time.

Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them. Exo 32:32

He whose sins have not been forgiven his sins with be counted against him he that he has already been blotted out. His name will not be found in the lamb’s book of life.

More than one book .

One book all the names of all he planned to create .The other book all the names he planned to have mercy on. The lamb’s book
 
Nov 6, 2017
674
12
0
#50
ok, well then it's answered.
When I read this passage

Matt 12:31-37

[SUP]31 [/SUP]“Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.[SUP]33 [/SUP]“Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. [SUP]34 [/SUP]You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. [SUP]35 [/SUP]The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil. [SUP]36 [/SUP]But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. [SUP]37 [/SUP]For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”



I think abut John MacArthur and his strange fire approach to differing doctrine of the Holy Spirit. I dislike them saying anything Charismatics/Pentecostal/Full Gospel do regarding gifts are doing it from the devil and not the Holy Spirit.

I also think about all the deceivers in the Prosperity, hyper-grace Pentecostal movements who give the Holy Spirit a migraine headache with all their rolling around, blathering on, Holy Ghost Laughing, getting flung all over the place by the power of God and making a mockery out of his true power and anointing. People like Benny Hinn have do grievous harm to the Holy Spirit just like well know cessation follower John MacArthur.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#51
No one is worthy to have the eternal wage of their sin atoned for. We are clothed in his righteousness alone. No man could be found with a righteousness of his own self .He does not blot out the names of those who have been born again. What will they do re-enter their mother womb when they are blotted out?

The names of the elect are written in the lamb’s book of life. They were established before the beginning of time.

Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them. Exo 32:32

He whose sins have not been forgiven his sins with be counted against him he that he has already been blotted out. His name will not be found in the lamb’s book of life.

More than one book .

One book all the names of all he planned to create .The other book all the names he planned to have mercy on. The lamb’s book

Hold up.. we are referring to Revelation and what the Lord states to the churches.. so they are Believers being corrected and encouraged and placed for us to hear..
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#52
You are mixing Cessationism and Legalism

Legalism can take a stance from either camp . Some make it legal to seek after a sign requiring a sign that they perform in the end to make it legal .

The increase has to do with those who walk after their outward experiences requiring a sign like making a noise and calling it tongues.

It’s called walking by sight after that seen the temporal. Like that of the Catholics who killed the miss perceived who their enemy was . Out of sight out of mind

It would seem they make void the instruction as to how we can hear the voice of God not seen.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Many other outward signs are popping up all over the place. Slain in the Holy Spirit, holy laughter, Holy smile, Holy frown, holy nap, holy dreamm holy I forgot the wives treat. .

Make me wonder according to his query ;when he comes will he find the faith of God working in the hearts of men or a worn out religious book that cannot perform that which in informs us it can.

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#53
You are mixing Cessationism and Legalism

Legalism can take a stance from either camp . Some make it legal to seek after a sign requiring a sign that they perform in the end to make it legal .

The increase has to do with those who walk after their outward experiences requiring a sign like making a noise and calling it tongues.

It’s called walking by sight after that seen the temporal. Like that of the Catholics who killed the miss perceived who their enemy was . Out of sight out of mind

It would seem they make void the instruction as to how we can hear the voice of God not seen.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Many other outward signs are popping up all over the place. Slain in the Holy Spirit, holy laughter, Holy smile, Holy frown, holy nap, holy dreamm holy I forgot the wives treat. .

Make me wonder according to his query ;when he comes will he find the faith of God working in the hearts of men or a worn out religious book that cannot perform that which in informs us it can.

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

I’m not mixing up anything.. I have been talking about Legalist’s .. I would have to learn what the other means hehe.. I could not even name a member that would be labelled such...
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#54
Hold up.. we are referring to Revelation and what the Lord states to the churches.. so they are Believers being corrected and encouraged and placed for us to hear..

He will not blot out the names of the ones who sin has been forgiven .If he would take into account even the least of sin .Who could stand in his holy presence and receive grace and mercy?

They are clothed with his righteousness .It is the ones that look certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation that have not had there sin atoned for. It will be against his adversary not His born again children whose sins are forgiven .

Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#55
Not going to pick out any certain post to reply to. Just going to "Spit it out", so to speak! :cool:
There are 2 (count 'em TWO), resurrections being argued over and about! Neither of which happens during this current life in flesh. At least, that's what "the world", and enemies of the Kingdom of God, and Kingdom of Light, would want, and strive for EVERY believer to accept as "CARVED In Stone gospel!" When, in (a) reality, this "carving", is only on, and in those "hearts of stone", of believers, whose hearts, and more correctly, pieces, or parts, of ones' hearts, that have not been healed into a "heart of flesh!"

There are many many, as well as much misunderstanding/s, misgivings and misrepresentation/s of just how STRONG, POWERFUL, INFLUENTIAL, these "enemies" of the Kingdom of God, Kingdom of Heaven, and Kingdom of Light ARE! And, how entangled and entrenched they have become, in the world, and, in ourselves.

When a "saved" believer goes to "drawing closer to God", IN Christ, in ones' becoming more Christlike, Faith, in this desiring to know Him more, shall, or should, cause one to seek out, His emotions and feelings. As we are IN FACT, created in His image! Not the other way around! I liken these "holy endeavors", or "works" of faith, to, that "ox" mentioned in the O.T., that is "treading the grapes." Yet, OH! How the enemies of God in Christ, LOVE it, when they have succeeded in convincing other believers, to muzzle that ox!

And, Oh! The arrogance of those believers', that teach, n preach, out of their own vainful hearts, thinking, they are venturing in the "sheep pen", when, what they are really trying to do, is come into the sheep pen from another way, than the "Sheep Gate." Which is Christ Jesus, our Lord and Savior.
When this happens? That Piece, or part, of ones' heart, is "automatically" placed, in the 2nd resurrection section, by Jehovah, Our Shepherd! (the GOVERNMENT, that is on the shoulders OF Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior). A Major misunderstanding, and Misrepresentation, given TO Christ, is that Jesus IS this government! This "government" is not IN Christ, but ONLY IN CHRIST, is one going to get TO it successfully! THIS, is what happens, and where one goes, when one is, or has been CONFESSED before the Father!
ANY other way, makes one no better then a pharsee!

Notice, I'm not teaching or preaching Paul! But, Jesus! He, being Crucified, and raised from the dead, by the Spirit of God!
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#56
I’m not mixing up anything.. I have been talking about Legalist’s .. I would have to learn what the other means hehe.. I could not even name a member that would be labelled such...
What kind of legalistic? One that conform to that which is written or one that conforms to whatever they deem legal? Like seeking after signs before they will believe? Or one worthy of seeking after a righteousness of their own self ?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
190
63
#57
He will not blot out the names of the ones who sin has been forgiven .If he would take into account even the least of sin .Who could stand in his holy presence and receive grace and mercy?

They are clothed with his righteousness .It is the ones that look certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation that have not had there sin atoned for. It will be against his adversary not His born again children whose sins are forgiven .

Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3

[TABLE="class: passage-cols"]
[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"]Revelation 3King James Version (KJV)

3 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.








So it is is possible for the Lord to blot out names.. because He states He won’t if they overcome.. warnings and instructions..






[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#58
Oh?

Something I see all the time by various unnamed ones who post often. IMO. Lol
An old evangelist once said "if God is dialing your number you had best pick up the phone".

He also said that "God will call you once and God will call you twice then God will burn down your barley fields". I think it safe to say God does not use voice mail.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#59
An old evangelist once said "if God is dialing your number you had best pick up the phone".

He also said that "God will call you once and God will call you twice then God will burn down your barley fields". I think it safe to say God does not use voice mail.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Hows your barley fields growing? ;)

I have no idea what your point is.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#60
That's quite the accusation Sis, and a common one, but nonetheless, it is untrue. No cessationist denies the power of the Holy Spirit. For the record, one cannot have or know the Spirit without doctrine about who he is, his attributes &c.



All toes have been missed! ;)
Ok, I do get this point now.


But, while I understand that blasphemy of Holy Spirit is not the same as believing the gifts are not for today, how else will the dunamis power operate through one without them? They are for the purpose of ministry, even tongues in a round about way. Tongues is multi purpose.

Am glad your toes are fine. I would hate to tear up what has been built with careless words.