Grace alone or grace plus works?

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Is salvation by Grace alone?

  • Salvation Is by Grace alone through faith.

    Votes: 42 87.5%

  • Salvation Is by Grace through faith plus works

    Votes: 6 12.5%
  • Total voters
    48
DJ2

DJ2

Senior Member
#121
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#121
Bladerunner said:
What do you mean 'no obedience'.... To be a good Christian is not enough in your book?????It is sad you doubt the Holy Spirit within the True Christian.

I guess it would be up to what a person outside the Circle of true Christianity would define the word "obedience.

Ask yourself....would a True Christian not already know this.????? A soul searching question---for the poster!
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I must be outside your circle because I am not even sure what you are saying.
 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

Senior Member
#122
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
#122
DJ2 said:
The flow and form of the entire Bible has been one of God rewarding man for his obedience.

God's grace was upon Adam & Eve and removed upon their disobedience.

It was restored by the grace of God to those who are obedient to His call to grace. No obedience, no grace. Proclaiming that it is grace alone shows a lack of this understanding.

So yes it does sound silly, anyone pushing grace alone without obedience to said grace will sound silly.
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Hi DJ2, it is Jesus Christ obedience that a true believer trust's in for salvation; it is our faith in the Savior that produces obedience to Christ, and faith being a gift from God. Faith to Faith our salvation is a gift of God, boasting of works is excluded;

"For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous." Roman's5:19
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#123
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#123
DJ2 said:
The flow and form of the entire Bible has been one of God rewarding man for his obedience.

God's grace was upon Adam & Eve and removed upon their disobedience.

It was restored by the grace of God to those who are obedient to His call to grace. No obedience, no grace. Proclaiming that it is grace alone shows a lack of this understanding.

So yes it does sound silly, anyone pushing grace alone without obedience to said grace will sound silly.
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You still show a profound misunderstanding of God, Scripture, the Gospel and grace:

preacher4truth said:
Grace should be defined. We are saved by grace, not by any works.

It is by grace that we do any works for God, Philippians 2:12-13, thus it is the saving grace of God working in the believer. The exercises of God's grace within a believer show the person is converted.

Those who believe they are saved by what they do (works) are gravely mistaken. The problem lies within a misunderstanding of what God's saving grace entails in the life of the believer.
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Repent, and believe the Gospel.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#124
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#124
TruthTalk said:
Hi DJ2, it is Jesus Christ obedience that a true believer trust's in for salvation; it is our faith in the Savior that produces obedience to Christ, and faith being a gift from God. Faith to Faith our salvation is a gift of God, boasting of works is excluded;

"For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous." Roman's5:19
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Amen. He has yet to believe. That.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#126
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#126
I'm perplexed that so many today see heaven as a place to be earned by works. It shows a person has had no encounter with Christ if they believe they can merit heaven by their works with some help from Christ.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#127
#127
preacher4truth said:
I'm perplexed that so many today see heaven as a place to be earned by works. It shows a person has had no encounter with Christ if they believe they can merit heaven by their works with some help from Christ.
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Or that God need our help!
 
DJ2

DJ2

Senior Member
#129
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#129
Laish said:
Grace is a unmerited favor . First why did Adam need grace before the fall ? Grace was given after the fall . In the form of not outright killing man for disobedience in the garden . Yes He expelled man from the garden yet he had mercy and showed Grace He clothed them . They did nothing to deserve that . Isreal did nothing in the desert to resemble obedience even Mose stumbled yet they were given the promise land. That’s grace again. You have the cart before the horse. It was God’s grace that we have been made alive and given saving faith . Without faith our works are worse than filthy rags. So it’s faith that comes first and we were given that faith through Grace .
Blessings
Bill
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God most certainly took away His grace over Adam and Eve. They died outside the Garden and like us in need of a saviour. A saviour who's sacrifice would again put them in the grace of God. Did God show pity on them, yes. God still has compassion for His creation. But the grace was gone.

By their obedience, Joshua and Caleb entered the promised land because they were under the grace of God, those who were not obedient died outside it. Only an obedient horse can pull the cart of grace.
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#131
Dec 9, 2011
13,740
1,728
113
#131
DJ2 said:
If grace unto itself saves, should not everyone be saved?
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Before JESUS came to earth to atone for man's sins by death on the cross In our stead so that we might have Eternal life there was no way man would be able to keep the law In his own strength because of the weakness of his flesh so JESUS fulfilled GOD's perfect standard of righteousness as a man bridging the Gap between GOD and man.

Once again then man would be able to approach GOD by believing In HIS WORD that HE sent to earth manifested In the flesh,,so then Grace was made available through faith In the WORD of GOD but no one can come to JESUS unless the Father that sent HIM draw them In other words you can't come to GOD and not be truly repentant.
GOD's will be done.amen.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#132
#132
DJ2 said:
God most certainly took away His grace over Adam and Eve. They died outside the Garden and like us in need of a saviour. A saviour who's sacrifice would again put them in the grace of God. Did God show pity on them, yes. God still has compassion for His creation.

Joshua and Caleb entered the promised land because they were under the grace of God by their obedience, those who were not obedient died outside it. Only an obedient horse can pull the cart of grace.
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You do not even understand what Grace is.

Whoever you have as a teacher you need to fire them. They have failed you.
 
DJ2

DJ2

Senior Member
#134
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#134
seed_time_harvest said:
Before JESUS came to earth to atone for man's sins by death on the cross In our stead so that we might have Eternal life there was no way man would be able to keep the law In his own strength because of the weakness of his flesh so JESUS fulfilled GOD's perfect standard of righteousness as a man bridging the Gap between GOD and man.

Once again then man would be able to approach GOD by believing In HIS WORD that HE sent to earth manifested In the flesh,,so then Grace was made available through faith In the WORD of GOD but no one can come to JESUS unless the Father that sent HIM draw them In other words you can't come to GOD and not be truly repentant.
GOD's will be done.amen.
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So it's grace plus God picking/drawing you?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#135
#135
DJ2 said:
So it's grace plus God picking/drawing you?
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No its grace through faith, not of works lest any man should boast.

But you want to puff yourself up and deny grace..

 
TruthTalk

TruthTalk

Senior Member
#137
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
#137
DJ2 said:
Only an obedient horse can pull the cart of grace.
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God's Grace, Jesus Christ, was crucified for our sins, no need for pulling God's Grace in a cart,
now that really sounds silly.
 
DJ2

DJ2

Senior Member
#139
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#139
eternally-gratefull said:
No its grace through faith, not of works lest any man should boast.

But you want to puff yourself up and deny grace..

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The word "through" in grace through faith is the plus in the grace plus works.

If faith is needed then grace is not enough.
 
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