Did Jesus abolish the law? Should we keep the commandments?

Hizikyah · Nov 20, 2017

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]This passage is a misunderstood and mistranslated passage. If we look at the context of Ezekiyl 20 it becomes more clear, it we deeply study the Hebrew word "towb" in it's meaning, as some resources simply translate it as "good" (where the misunderstanding comes from) and some properly convey as shown here:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiel 20:25 [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New International Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So I gave them other statutes that were not good and laws through which they could not live;[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New Living Translation[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I gave them over to worthless decrees and regulations that would not lead to life.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]English Standard Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Moreover, I gave them statutes that were not good and rules by which they could not have life,[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New American Standard Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"I also gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not live;[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]King James Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiel 20:25, "“And I also gave them up to laws that were not agreeable, and right-rulings by which they would not live.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Brown-Driver-Briggs[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]II. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טוֺב [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]adjective pleasant, agreeable, good (see LagBN 26; Aramaic [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טַב[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], Palmyrene [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טב [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]VogNo. 81, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טבא [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]VogNo. 75) — masculine [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]׳ט [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 2:12 22t., [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טוֺבָם [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Micah 7:4; feminine [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טוֺבָה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Esther 8:5 50t., [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טֹבָה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 6:18 2t.; construct [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טוֺבַת [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 26:7 6t., [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טֹבַת [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 24:16; plural [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טוֺבִים [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 44:17 28t.; [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טֹבִים [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 27:9 4t.; construct [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טוֺבֵי [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniel 1:4 2t.; plural [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טוֺבוֺת [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Esther 2:2, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טֹבוֺת [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 24:2 6t., [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טֹבֹת [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 6:2 4t.; —[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 pleasant, agreeable to the senses:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"20:22, "“But I held back My hand and acted for My Name’s sake, not to profane it before the eyes of the nations, before whose eyes I had brought them out.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"20:23, "“Also, I Myself lifted My hand in an oath to those in the wilderness, to scatter them among the nations and disperse them throughout the lands,[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"20:24, "because they had not done My right-rulings, and they rejected My laws, and they profaned My Sabbaths, and their eyes were on their fathers’ idols.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"20:25, "“And I also gave them up to laws that were not agreeable, and right-rulings by which they would not live.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"20:26, "“And I defiled them by their own gifts, as they passed all their first-born through the fire, so that I might stun them, so that they know that I am [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].” ’"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]20:27, "“Therefore, son of man, speak to the house of Yisra’ĕl, and you shall say to them, ‘Thus said the Master [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], “In this your fathers have further reviled Me, by committing trespass against Me."[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New International Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So I gave them other statutes that were not good and laws through which they could not live;[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New Living Translation[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I gave them over to worthless decrees and regulations that would not lead to life.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]English Standard Version[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Moreover, I gave them statutes that were not good and rules by which they could not have life,[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New American Standard Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"I also gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not live;[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]King James Bible[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiel 20:25, "“And I also gave them up to laws that were not agreeable, and right-rulings by which they would not live.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Brown-Driver-Briggs[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]II. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טוֺב [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]adjective pleasant, agreeable, good (see LagBN 26; Aramaic [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טַב[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], Palmyrene [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טב [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]VogNo. 81, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טבא [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]VogNo. 75) — masculine [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]׳ט [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 2:12 22t., [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טוֺבָם [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Micah 7:4; feminine [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טוֺבָה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Esther 8:5 50t., [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טֹבָה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 6:18 2t.; construct [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טוֺבַת [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 26:7 6t., [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טֹבַת [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 24:16; plural [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טוֺבִים [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 44:17 28t.; [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טֹבִים [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 27:9 4t.; construct [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טוֺבֵי [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniel 1:4 2t.; plural [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טוֺבוֺת [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Esther 2:2, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טֹבוֺת [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 24:2 6t., [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]טֹבֹת [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 6:2 4t.; —[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 pleasant, agreeable to the senses:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"20:22, "“But I held back My hand and acted for My Name’s sake, not to profane it before the eyes of the nations, before whose eyes I had brought them out.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"20:23, "“Also, I Myself lifted My hand in an oath to those in the wilderness, to scatter them among the nations and disperse them throughout the lands,[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"20:24, "because they had not done My right-rulings, and they rejected My laws, and they profaned My Sabbaths, and their eyes were on their fathers’ idols.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"20:25, "“And I also gave them up to laws that were not agreeable, and right-rulings by which they would not live.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"20:26, "“And I defiled them by their own gifts, as they passed all their first-born through the fire, so that I might stun them, so that they know that I am [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].” ’"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]20:27, "“Therefore, son of man, speak to the house of Yisra’ĕl, and you shall say to them, ‘Thus said the Master [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], “In this your fathers have further reviled Me, by committing trespass against Me."[/FONT][/FONT]

mailmandan · Nov 20, 2017

stonesoffire said:

Amen! "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.

"No one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins." (Luke 5:37-38).

JaumeJ · Nov 20, 2017

It seems there are people claiming to be brethren who say Jesus was lying when He declared and taught the law is still in effect. It isindeed still in effect and as Paul teaches it is established by faith.

Now Jesus declares it is not dead and Paul declares it is established by faith.

I believe Jesus, and guess what!? I believe Paul........What is established is not abolished.

Those of you who do not know the Word should at least read it before making allegations unfounded.

mailmandan · Nov 20, 2017

Marcelo said:

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations (Exodus 16:23; 31:12-18; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21; 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13) was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on the Church/Christians under the New Covenant. (Colossians 2:16,17)

Hizikyah · Nov 20, 2017

mailmandan said:

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

all in Messiah are Israyl;

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Yisra’yl who belongs to Yisra’yl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

Galatians 3:27-29, “For as many of you as were immersed into Messiah have put on Messiah. There is not Yehuḏi nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah יהושע. And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Aḇraham, and heirs according to promise.”

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; ‘You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation!’ And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish His Seed forever, and His throne will be as the days of heaven. Should His children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from Him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness, I cannot lie, and I say to David; His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

the Sabbath was for Hebrew and Gentile alike, from the beginning;

Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

JaumeJ · Nov 20, 2017

The law seems to be very convenient for those who oppose believing God established the week of creation and put it in order.

These lawyers do not seem to go to learn how the law is to be approached from the teaching of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ also tells us the world will hate us because of Him. A beloved brother reminded me of this and also put things into prper perspective when he elaboratd on this.

There are many who hate Jesus Christ, God, and comein as false brethren attempting to ruin the faith of the faithful, thechildren of God.

We must beware of Christ haters in desguise.

mailmandan said:

gb9 · Nov 20, 2017

the Biblical shell game continues. sad misuse of God's Word.

gb9 · Nov 20, 2017

JaumeJ said:

yes, like people who say that " real understanding Christians do not need to read Paul ". there you have a hater alright. anyone you know that thinks we do not need to read Paul? anyone?

Hizikyah · Nov 20, 2017

gb9 said:

I hear more people say Jesus words pre-cross are made void 100X more than I have ever heard people say Paul is not important.

Yet Yahshua/Jesus says:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

JaumeJ · Nov 20, 2017

Indignation and perfect love dwell with those who love God in Jesus Christ. What traditions of mankind hve attempted in perverting the Truth of the Gospel is monumental by the standard of this age, so we look to our Father who reduces those perversions to less than ashes.

Praise Jesus Christ our ing, High Priest and Savior, amen

Hizikyah · Nov 20, 2017

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting." [/FONT]

Snoozy · Nov 20, 2017

JaumeJ said:

which law and how long?
what about when Jesus said it is finished on the cross? how about that.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 20, 2017

JaumeJ said:

It seems some people want to put people under law. And refuse to acknowledge what the purpose of the law. Which I is to bring us to christ. To expose sin, and maske it so no one has an excuse.

They ignore the fact that the law was given for the sinner, not the just. (Believer)

then they want to slander us, and say we are the ones not believing what Jesu ssaid.

dcontroversal · Nov 20, 2017

JaumeJ said:

Was JESUS born under the law and did he live and die under the law? Yes or NO
Did his death ratify the NEW covenant of GRACE which was not the covenant of LAW? YES or NO

Exactly why the lawyers, Pharisees and all those who push the law miss the mark.....they cannot answer the above truthfully and or understand that we MUST interpret the words of JESUS in light of the above two facts.......!

loveme1 · Nov 20, 2017

stonesoffire said:

I know we disagree on much loveme.

Ministers of the New Covenant

2Co 3:1 Are we beginning to recommend ourselves again? Unlike some people, we do not need letters of recommendation to you or from you, do we?

2Co 3:2 You are our letter, written in our hearts and known and read by everyone.

2Co 3:3 You are demonstrating that you are the Messiah's letter, produced by our service, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

2Co 3:4 Such is the confidence that we have in God through the Messiah.

2Co 3:5 By ourselves we are not qualified to claim that anything comes from us. Rather, our credentials come from God,

2Co 3:6 who has also qualified us to be ministers of a new covenant, which is not written but spiritual, because the written text brings death, but the Spirit gives life.

2Co 3:7 Now if the ministry of death that was inscribed in letters of stone came with such glory that the people of Israel could not gaze on Moses' face (because the glory was fading away from it),

2Co 3:8 will not the Spirit's ministry have even more glory?

The New Covenant is Christ in me, the hope of glory. The Living Anointed Son of God. He is our inheritance. Holy Spirit within is the beginning.

The old covenant is the law written within men's hearts. They love the Torah. The written Torah. And it's worship of the written that is their stumbling.

Why Israel does not recognise Messiah?

2Co 3:14 However, their minds were hardened, for to this day the same veil is still there when they read the old covenant. Only in union with the Messiah is that veil removed.

2Co 3:15 Yet even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.

2Co 3:16 But whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Lord's Spirit is, there is freedom.

2Co 3:18 As all of us reflect the glory of the Lord with unveiled faces, we are becoming more like him with ever-increasing glory by the Lord's Spirit.

Do you see the difference now?

No stones.. you and I can agree to disagree my dear.

I believe the Lord So There is no veil between me and GOD.. I was condemned as a Gentile through the Old Covenant .. guilty and needed saving like all unbelievers.. but I found GOD’s Law in my heart as have so many..

i have heard of the seperate Covenant theory.. but I’m not of that understanding.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 20, 2017

JaumeJ said:

Lol,, We do what Jesus said,

Love God first, then anyone we come inn contact with, in this is the law fulfilled,

its not fulfillied by the fles (self effort) of keeping laws written in stone

dcontroversal · Nov 20, 2017

loveme1 said:

Exactly why you will continue to miss the mark....it is as plain as day that there are two covenants and one was nailed to the cross.....

eternally-gratefull · Nov 20, 2017

Hizikyah said:

No one says they are void as in they are obsolete.

They say they are void as to making one righteous.

Context man, Context. Stop assuming because someone says something you understand what’s they mean.

LoveGodForever · Nov 20, 2017

sorry mistake

Hizikyah · Nov 20, 2017

Snoozy said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 24:44-46, “And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be fulfilled that were written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me. Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it has been written, and so it was necessary for the Messiah to suffer and to rise again from the dead the third day.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]There are 2 "it is done" statements...

Fulfilled already
John 19:30, “So when [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]took the sour wine He said, “It is done!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.”

Fulfilled already- To be fulfilled in the future

1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits – presenting Himself to YHWH)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever
4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever

To be fulfilled in the future
Revelation 21:4-8, “And Yah shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away. And He who was sitting on the throne said, “See, I make all matters new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and trustworthy. And He said to me, “It is done! I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End. To the one who thirsts I shall give of the fountain of the water of life without payment. The one who overcomes shall inherit all this, and I shall be his Strength and he shall be My son. But as for the cowardly, and untrustworthy, and abominable, and murderers, and those who whore, and drug sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the false, their part is in the lake which burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]

Did Jesus abolish the law? Should we keep the commandments?

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