Grace alone or grace plus works?

[Hizikyah]

YHWH's Spirit;

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”


Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Ezekiel was written to jews, who had rejected their god for centuries. And continued even after their messiah came. so please stop using it.

Jesus gave us the answer himself. By loving all people and serving them, and putting their needs above yours.

We love because God first loved us. We love because we are saved, We stop sin because we become like Christ, not because we follow som law.

So I can love god with all my heart and soul, and my neighbor (everyone I come in contact with, always putting their needs above my own, ) and follow the things of the spirit, producing the fruit of the spirit, and be following the wrong spirit?

Please. Do tell how that can be so

the Messiah followed the Laws perfectly... He is our example. It is clear you are in oppisition to Yah's Law.

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."


Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

 

[Studyman]

The Bible tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance -- "to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind." If there is no change in behavior at all, then there was no true repentance.

But what was the behavior that needed to be changed and repented of in the first place? Are we not to repent from lawless deeds?

 

[Hizikyah]

But what was the behavior that needed to be changed and repented of in the first place? Are we not to repent from lawless deeds?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."[/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans, “6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"[/FONT]

 

[DJ2]

So I can love god with all my heart and soul, and my neighbor (everyone I come in contact with, always putting their needs above my own, ) and follow the things of the spirit, producing the fruit of the spirit, and be following the wrong spirit?

Please. Do tell how that can be so

How can this be so? Proverbs 14:12 & Matthew 7:22 among others show how easy it is to falsely convince ourselves that we are on the right path. Hence the danger of the notion of unquestionable assurance.

Does this help?

 

[Grandpa]

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."




Romans, “6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Romans 8:2 [FONT=&quot]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

[/FONT]Romans 14:23 [FONT=&quot]And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

[/FONT]Galatians 3:12 [FONT=&quot]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

[/FONT]2 Corinthians 3:6-8
[FONT=&quot]6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

Not of the letter. Not of working at the law. Not of the Ministry of Death. Not trying to work at the 10 commandments.

Of the Spirit. For the Spirit gives Life. See Romans 8:2[/FONT]

 

[Grandpa]

But what was the behavior that needed to be changed and repented of in the first place? Are we not to repent from lawless deeds?

Lawless deeds are breaking the 10 commandments.

Now the problem is that those 10 commandments are spiritual. But our understanding of them is carnal. Because we are carnal people.

So what is the Solution? How can we not be lawless?

Romans 7:24-25
[FONT=&quot]24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The solution is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Not our continued work and continued "understanding" of the spiritual law.[/FONT]

 

[gb9]

Lawless deeds are breaking the 10 commandments.

Now the problem is that those 10 commandments are spiritual. But our understanding of them is carnal. Because we are carnal people.

So what is the Solution? How can we not be lawless?

Romans 7:24-25
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The solution is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Not our continued work and continued "understanding" of the spiritual law.

the centerpiece of Christianity is the Cross, not Sinai . Christianity is not Judeaism 2.0.

 

[Muzungu256]

the centerpiece of Christianity is the Cross, not Sinai . Christianity is not Judeaism 2.0.

even the ot isnt judaism.
judaism is a false religion created by pharisees........ jesus was always against judaism. u see.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

the Messiah followed the Laws perfectly... He is our example. It is clear you are in oppisition to Yah's Law.

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."


Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

Yes he did, How did he do it’

and are you perfect? If not. You have failed to do what the messiah did.

Now can you show me how I can love others, and love God, and set my mind on the things of the spirit producing the fruit of the spirit and by doing so be following the wrong spirit. You ignore the question.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But what was the behavior that needed to be changed and repented of in the first place? Are we not to repent from lawless deeds?

We repent from what causes those lawful deeds., and we repent of our view of who and what God is. And change our thinking to match Gods thinking.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."




Romans, “6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Yep. And you are a sinner

Now has the condemnation which comes by not fulfilling the just requirment of the late apply to you or not? And why?

 

[Hizikyah]

Yes he did, How did he do it’

and are you perfect? If not. You have failed to do what the messiah did.

Now can you show me how I can love others, and love God, and set my mind on the things of the spirit producing the fruit of the spirit and by doing so be following the wrong spirit. You ignore the question.

I answered this atleast 2 times already.

He changes the heart.

Yep. And you are a sinner

Now has the condemnation which comes by not fulfilling the just requirment of the late apply to you or not? And why?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Messiah Yahshua, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:14, “For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.”[/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”[/FONT]


I am not the judge, I will let the judge judge;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 4:4-5, “For I know nothing by myself; yet by this I am not justified, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] for He Who judges me is יהוה! Therefore, judge nothing before the time [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. Wait until Yahshua comes, Who will bring to light the things hidden in darkness, and will reveal the secret intentions of men's hearts; and then each man will receive praise from [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How can this be so? Proverbs 14:12 & Matthew 7:22 among others show how easy it is to falsely convince ourselves that we are on the right path. Hence the danger of the notion of unquestionable assurance.

Does this help?

No it does not help, Because you would have to prove how I was wrong in what I said.

Jesus said if I obey the law of love (love God and others, ie, put their needs above my own) and paul said if I seek after the things of the spirit I will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

So If I have determined to have a lifestyle of serving and loving others. And not worry about my needs, how can that be following the wrong spirit?

 

[loveme1]

the centerpiece of Christianity is the Cross, not Sinai . Christianity is not Judeaism 2.0.

I think you will find GOD is the Centerpiece.. the power and love of GOD was demonstrated through the Lord’s suffering on the cross.. let us not make an idol of wood..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lawless deeds are breaking the 10 commandments.

Now the problem is that those 10 commandments are spiritual. But our understanding of them is carnal. Because we are carnal people.

So what is the Solution? How can we not be lawless?

Romans 7:24-25
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The solution is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Not our continued work and continued "understanding" of the spiritual law.

Well said, thank you sir!

 

[Muzungu256]

reaction of a jamaican when hes being sold judaism with a cross paperwrap on top:

 

[gb9]

I think you will find GOD is the Centerpiece.. the power and love of GOD was demonstrated through the Lord’s suffering on the cross.. let us not make an idol of wood..

let us also make an idol out of Sabbath and Law. because Christ saves, not these things.

 

[JaumeJ]

What will you do with the faith given you by God?

Mat 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
Mat 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What will you do with the faith given you by God?

Mat 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
Mat 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

What will I do?

I will do what God said

1. Love God with all my soul

2. Love all people I come in contact with, be it they are my enemy or not

3. Seek after the things of the spirit, and I will produce spiritual fruit, against which there is no law. And I will not fulfill the lusts of th4e flesh (sin)

what I will not do?

Go back to law.. The law can only condemn me, It will never save me, nor will it ever help me to become spiritually mature.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Still waiting for an answer. Can someone tell me why this can be following the same spirit?

So I can love god with all my heart and soul, and my neighbor (everyone I come in contact with, always putting their needs above my own, ) and follow the things of the spirit, producing the fruit of the spirit, and be following the wrong spirit?

Please. Do tell how that can be so