God's sovereignity and man's "freedom"...
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In your opinion my theology isn't sound . . . and in my opinion your theology isn't sound, dear brother.
Post #226 - Spiritually, i.e. figuratively, metaphorically, we were dead in trespasses and sins - we were not literal corpses. Haven't "ad libbed" (don't know if that is a word or not!) as I go along.
Dead - spiritually dead (figurative, metaphorically) NOT physically dead (literal) We were dead because of our trespasses and sins - without God and without hope but still living and breathing creatures . . . that's why it is not literal. Spiritually we were dead - without the Spirit of God dwelling in us. We are made alive - born again Spirit of God dwelling in us. God uses the figurative to emphasize the deadness of one without Him no need to use
We are sealed with holy Spirit AFTER we hear the word of truth, AFTER we believe the gospel of our salvation according to Ephesians 1:13 - now if my belief is absurd . . . so be it.
Post #226 - Spiritually, i.e. figuratively, metaphorically, we were dead in trespasses and sins - we were not literal corpses. Haven't "ad libbed" (don't know if that is a word or not!) as I go along.
Dead - spiritually dead (figurative, metaphorically) NOT physically dead (literal) We were dead because of our trespasses and sins - without God and without hope but still living and breathing creatures . . . that's why it is not literal. Spiritually we were dead - without the Spirit of God dwelling in us. We are made alive - born again Spirit of God dwelling in us. God uses the figurative to emphasize the deadness of one without Him no need to use
We are sealed with holy Spirit AFTER we hear the word of truth, AFTER we believe the gospel of our salvation according to Ephesians 1:13 - now if my belief is absurd . . . so be it.
Well, with all due respect I believe your proposal is an unrealistic goal. Although it may appear unlikely any or too few are persuaded, it still happens. In fact, there are several persons that I know of personally who have come to embrace Reformed doctrine after careful analysis and exegesis of Scripture.
Not to argue, or be disagreeable, but that to me is profitable. The testimonies of those seeing these truths are tremendous, and their understanding being opened, rekindled glorying in God, hunger to know him even more all make it well worth the effort. I see this all as an answer to Paul's prayer for the saints; Ephesians 1:15-23.
Truth is always at stake, and will always be defended from each others perspective.
I cannot embrace decisional regeneration, that we have wills that are free in our lost state, or that God elects based upon seeing through portals of time man's decision &c. Believing against these things enhances our understanding concerning the Biblical state of the lost, and the need for God to grant them faith, repentance &c. God set out to gather all he has chosen from eternity and is doing just that, and there are none other persons who will be saved.
Therefore the views I hold to will reflect this from a Biblical standpoint which I believe to be from careful and contextual exegesis. To me it is defending the faith, the purity of the Word, God's character and nature, and of course the Gospel, something Paul also was set to do, as well as we ourselves; Philippians 1:7, 16.
Standing our ground theologically will be deemed by many as sniping, and then there is the issue with compromise, which in my opinion there would have to be compromise to ensure your proposal. There is no complete unity in compromise and it would be asking for me to set aside what is true in the word, and for you to do the same as per your position.
I hope my position does not offend you or divide us.
God bless.
Not to argue, or be disagreeable, but that to me is profitable. The testimonies of those seeing these truths are tremendous, and their understanding being opened, rekindled glorying in God, hunger to know him even more all make it well worth the effort. I see this all as an answer to Paul's prayer for the saints; Ephesians 1:15-23.
Truth is always at stake, and will always be defended from each others perspective.
I cannot embrace decisional regeneration, that we have wills that are free in our lost state, or that God elects based upon seeing through portals of time man's decision &c. Believing against these things enhances our understanding concerning the Biblical state of the lost, and the need for God to grant them faith, repentance &c. God set out to gather all he has chosen from eternity and is doing just that, and there are none other persons who will be saved.
Therefore the views I hold to will reflect this from a Biblical standpoint which I believe to be from careful and contextual exegesis. To me it is defending the faith, the purity of the Word, God's character and nature, and of course the Gospel, something Paul also was set to do, as well as we ourselves; Philippians 1:7, 16.
Standing our ground theologically will be deemed by many as sniping, and then there is the issue with compromise, which in my opinion there would have to be compromise to ensure your proposal. There is no complete unity in compromise and it would be asking for me to set aside what is true in the word, and for you to do the same as per your position.
I hope my position does not offend you or divide us.
God bless.
A. In the post you're referring to by MarcR, he never suggested "compromise" on either side's theological views.
In fact, I've never heard him call for theological compromise, on any issue of which I'm aware.
B. When he suggested we refrain from "sniping", he said nothing about giving up your "theological ground".
This would be to add quite a lot to what he actually said.
C. If you look at what MarcR actually said, without reading anything into it, I don't think you can take it as anything more than a call for civility.
He was clearly just calling for civility among those who disagree.
I think to suggest it was anything more would be to take great liberties with his actual words.
D. If perhaps you consider a "call for civility", among brethren, to be a "compromise", then perhaps we need to have an entirely different discussion - one about politeness and temperament.
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Decisional regeneration what a convenient way to avoid personal responsibility. Deny that you must make a decision to submit your will to Gods will.
God indeed does all the regenerating or saving but man must submit must ask God to save him. Man is able because of what God says in Genesis 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Wow man is become as one of the Godhead. Had Adam eaten of the tree of life he would have lived forever in his fallen state. Adam would have become as Lucifer corrupted by his will and having eternal life.
God provided redemption back in verse 15 so the will of God is not subverted by Adams will.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
God indeed does all the regenerating or saving but man must submit must ask God to save him. Man is able because of what God says in Genesis 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Wow man is become as one of the Godhead. Had Adam eaten of the tree of life he would have lived forever in his fallen state. Adam would have become as Lucifer corrupted by his will and having eternal life.
God provided redemption back in verse 15 so the will of God is not subverted by Adams will.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Again, hearing is the key. Its not just hearing with the ears on the sides of our head, but with the ears of our spirit. Let him who has ears hear. This is not physical ears that is being addressed here. The dead can not hear. But you mitigate that to not literal death, but figurative death. As already been stated, you're trying to rewrite the narrative to fit your theology.
And you were metaphorically dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were metaphorically dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),[Ephesians 2:1-5]
Yeah. Let's just make everything a metaphor in the bible. The same power that saves is that same power that rose Jesus from the grave. I guess that's a metaphor, too. 
Ppl reject biblical truth all day long, and claim to hold to biblical truths.
Ppl reject biblical truth all day long, and claim to hold to biblical truths.
Mt 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is metaphorically born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?”Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is metaphorically born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born metaphorically of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be metaphorically born again.’ The wind metaphorically blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is metaphorically born of the Spirit.”[John 3:3-7]
Its a snowball effect. To hold to heresy, you have to have more heresy to support your heresy. That's a big heresy snowball to relegate being spiritually dead as a metaphor. Heresy knows no bounds.
Its a snowball effect. To hold to heresy, you have to have more heresy to support your heresy. That's a big heresy snowball to relegate being spiritually dead as a metaphor. Heresy knows no bounds.
And I never claimed nor implied he did.
And I never claimed nor implied he did.
I read what MarcR actually said without reading anything into it. The funny thing is you're doing exactly what you falsely accuse yourself.
And there you go with more assuming and making false conclusions on my intentions. You know what they say when we assume.
And I never claimed nor implied he did.
I read what MarcR actually said without reading anything into it. The funny thing is you're doing exactly what you falsely accuse yourself.
And there you go with more assuming and making false conclusions on my intentions. You know what they say when we assume.
Yeah. Let's just make everything a metaphor in the bible. The same power that saves is that same power that rose Jesus from the grave. I guess that's a metaphor, too.
Ppl reject biblical truth all day long, and claim to hold to biblical truths.
Ppl reject biblical truth all day long, and claim to hold to biblical truths.