Did Jesus abolish the law? Should we keep the commandments?

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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Looks like you get all or nothing. The Lord Jesus Christ said not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law UNTIL ALL IS FULFILLED.

All or nothing. You don't get to keep your favorite part and get rid of what is inconvenient.


If you have the spiritual sight to be able to see that the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled some of the law then you can probably take Him at His Word and know that all is fulfilled.
Is all fulfilled? Did heaven and earth pass?

Luke 24:44-46, “And He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all have to be fulfilled that were written in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me. Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it has been written, and so it was necessary for the Messiah to suffer and to rise again from the dead the third day.”


There are 2 "it is done" statements...

Fulfilled already
John 19:30, “So when
יהושע took the sour wine He said, “It is done!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.”

Fulfilled already- To be fulfilled in the future

1. Passover/First-fruits – Yahshua's Sacrifice(Passover), burial and resurrection (First Fruits – presenting Himself to YHWH)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread – Removal of sin by Yahshua's perfect work as the Passover Sacrifice
3. Feast of Weeks – The blessing Holy Spirit of YHWH, coming into our lives stronger than ever

4. Feast of Trumpets – Yahshua's return and gathering of the Saints
5. Day of Atonement – Yahshua leads the army of YHWH to destroy evil rulers of this world and satan is chained for 1,000 years
6. Feast of Tabernacles – Yahshua dwells on earth for 1,000 years teaching truth and righteousness
7. The Last Great Day – satan is loosed and swiftly destroyed, the Kingdom of YHWH reigns forever


To be fulfilled in the future
Revelation 21:4-8, “And Yah shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away. And He who was sitting on the throne said, “See, I make all matters new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and trustworthy. And He said to me, “It is done! I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End. To the one who thirsts I shall give of the fountain of the water of life without payment. The one who overcomes shall inherit all this, and I shall be his Strength and he shall be My son. But as for the cowardly, and untrustworthy, and abominable, and murderers, and those who whore, and drug sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the false, their part is in the lake which burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.”



Psalms 2:1-12, "2:1, "Why do the nations rage, And the peoples meditate emptiness? The sovereigns of the earth take their stand, And the rulers take counsel together, Against יהוה and against His Messiah, and say, Let us tear apart Their bonds, And throw away Their ropes from us.”"2:4, " He who is sitting in the heavens laughs, יהוה mocks at them. Then He speaks to them in His wrath, And troubles them in His rage, saying,"2:6, "“ But I, I have set My Sovereign on Tsiyon, My set-apart mountain. I inscribe for a law: יהוה has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have brought You forth. Ask of Me, and I make the nations Your inheritance, And the ends of the earth Your possession. Break them with a rod of iron, Dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel. And now, be wise, O sovereigns; Be instructed, you rulers of the earth. Serve יהוה with fear, And rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son lest He be enraged, And you perish in the way, For soon His wrath is to be kindled. Blessed are all those taking refuge in Him.”

Daniel 7:21-22, “I was looking, and this horn was fighting against the set-apart ones, and was prevailing against them, until the Ancient of Days came, and right-ruling was given to the set-apart ones of the Most High, and the time came and the set-apart ones took possession of the reign."


Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."
 

heavyese

Junior Member
Dec 4, 2017
4
0
0
It is really very important to understand the terms used in scriptures. The Commandments, the laws, statutes and ordinances. The laws, ordinances and statutes given by Moses(Mosaic laws) was for a period. The Ten Commandments stand and is for all time. The laws in operation or that observed during the levitical priesthood is ANNULLED with the Coming of High Priest, Jesus Christ because it (laws)was not perfect or made nothing perfect. A study of Hebrews 7 will throw more light!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
It is really very important to understand the terms used in scriptures. The Commandments, the laws, statutes and ordinances. The laws, ordinances and statutes given by Moses(Mosaic laws) was for a period. The Ten Commandments stand and is for all time. The laws in operation or that observed during the levitical priesthood is ANNULLED with the Coming of High Priest, Jesus Christ because it (laws)was not perfect or made nothing perfect. A study of Hebrews 7 will throw more light!

The ten commands were part of the complete law. You can not seperate them

Are they sins if they are broken? Yes. But the reason they were given was not to instruct us on what it looks like not to sin. It was to convict us that we do son, because at the same time they were given, The children of Israel was told they must obey EVERY WORD. Failure to do so would place us under a curse.

What changes four a believer is they have been lead by the law to the redeemer. They still sin, they no longer need to be told that, they KNOW IT.

What they need to do is find out WHAT power causes us to walk in his ways so we do NOT BREAK the commands.

 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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The ten commands were part of the complete law. You can not seperate them

Are they sins if they are broken? Yes. But the reason they were given was not to instruct us on what it looks like not to sin. It was to convict us that we do son, because at the same time they were given, The children of Israel was told they must obey EVERY WORD. Failure to do so would place us under a curse.

What changes four a believer is they have been lead by the law to the redeemer. They still sin, they no longer need to be told that, they KNOW IT.

What they need to do is find out WHAT power causes us to walk in his ways so we do NOT BREAK the commands.

and the priestly Laws remain, yet thery are not carried out by huamns (levites) but are carried out by Yahshua now and forever:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 7:13, “For He of whom this is said belongs to another tribe, from which no one had attended at the Altar. For it is perfectly clear that our Master arose from Yehuḏah, a tribe about which Mosheh never spoke of concerning priesthood.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 4:14-15, "Seeing then that we have a great High Priest Who has ascended into the heavens: Yahshua the Son of YHWH, let us hold fast our profession. For we do not have a High Priest Who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all ways tempted as we are--yet was without sin."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 9:11-12, "But the Messiah came near as a High Priest over the righteous things to come, with the great and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation; Nor through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once, for all, having obtained eternal redemption."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 7:23-28, “And indeed, those that became priests were many, because they were prevented by death from continuing, but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to Yah through Him, ever living to make intercession for them. For it was fitting that we should have such a High Priest – kind, innocent, undefiled, having been separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens, who does not need, as those high priests, to offer up slaughter offerings day by day, first for His own sins and then for those of the people, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. For the Torah appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath which came after the Torah, appoints the Son having been perfected forever.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…" [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
 

heavyese

Junior Member
Dec 4, 2017
4
0
0
I want to briefly comment on the entire Psalm 2: The Lord and His Anointed or the Lord(YHWH) and His Son: It means really God and the Holy Spirit from my understanding of the entire chapter; This is similar to PSALM 110; The Lord said to my Lord at Right hand- The Lord at the Right is MELCHIZEDEK, The Holy Spirit!
 

heavyese

Junior Member
Dec 4, 2017
4
0
0
Please observe the use of the word "laws" and "Law". "Law" as used in Romans 3:31, Romans 7:25 and Luke 16:16-17 means the Unfailing 10 Commandments. Whereas the "laws" include statutes, ordinances etc on which the levitical priesthood operates. These laws were imperfect or do not assure perfection.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Hi SOF,

This is true however God only gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him. If you have known SIN in your life you need to repent and confess your sins before you receive God's Spirit....

Acts 17
30, And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now <When a knowledge of the truth is come> commands all men every where to repent: 31, Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

links to....

Act 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 3:19

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Repentance, confession and turning away from sin are the conditions of receiving God's Spirit because God only gives the Holy Spirit to those who through Faith OBEY him...

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

If you are continuing in known UNREPENTANT SIN you DO NOT have the Holy Spirit and do not know HIM who loves all......

1 John 3
6, Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.


God's 4th commandment is one of the ten ( Exodus 20:8-11 ) and like any of the ten, if we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

There is not one scripture in ALL of God's WORD that says God's 4th commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to worship God on Sunday in it's place. There is NO scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
If we have known sin in our life, we "will" repent. The child of the Spirit cannot remain in sin. It's heavy on ones conscience.

And God is a great Father to chastise us with His Word.

Jesus is our sabbath rest LGF, and until you have entered into the finished work of Jesus, the only Saving power of mankind, you are just religious. Working to,please Father is not acceptable to Him. It's faith in the sacrifice that He Himself gave, when He gave His only perfect Son to us. A dying world, soon to pass. His work alone is acceptable.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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I want to briefly comment on the entire Psalm 2: The Lord and His Anointed or the Lord(YHWH) and His Son: It means really God and the Holy Spirit from my understanding of the entire chapter; This is similar to PSALM 110; The Lord said to my Lord at Right hand- The Lord at the Right is MELCHIZEDEK, The Holy Spirit!
? How on earth did you come up with this? Holy Spirit is not high priest of the Melchizadek Priesthood!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Please observe the use of the word "laws" and "Law". "Law" as used in Romans 3:31, Romans 7:25 and Luke 16:16-17 means the Unfailing 10 Commandments. Whereas the "laws" include statutes, ordinances etc on which the levitical priesthood operates. These laws were imperfect or do not assure perfection.
The law is the law is the law

The ten commands separated from the levitical priesthood is a non completed law. Because no one can obey the ten as required thus we are all under a curse. Apart from the levitical law. We would know we are guilty, but not know we need to be led to the sacrifice (christ)
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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and the priestly Laws remain, yet thery are not carried out by huamns (levites) but are carried out by Yahshua now and forever:

Hebrews 7:13, “For He of whom this is said belongs to another tribe, from which no one had attended at the Altar. For it is perfectly clear that our Master arose from Yehuḏah, a tribe about which Mosheh never spoke of concerning priesthood.”


Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."


Hebrews 4:14-15, "Seeing then that we have a great High Priest Who has ascended into the heavens: Yahshua the Son of YHWH, let us hold fast our profession. For we do not have a High Priest Who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all ways tempted as we are--yet was without sin."


Hebrews 9:11-12, "But the Messiah came near as a High Priest over the righteous things to come, with the great and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation; Nor through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once, for all, having obtained eternal redemption."


Hebrews 7:23-28, “And indeed, those that became priests were many, because they were prevented by death from continuing, but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to Yah through Him, ever living to make intercession for them. For it was fitting that we should have such a High Priest – kind, innocent, undefiled, having been separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens, who does not need, as those high priests, to offer up slaughter offerings day by day, first for His own sins and then for those of the people, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. For the Torah appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath which came after the Torah, appoints the Son having been perfected forever.”



Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”


Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."


Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws…"





This is The Complete Jewish Bible, translated from the Hebrew to English Hiz.

25 Thanks be to God [, he will]! —through Yeshua the Messiah, our Lord! To sum up: with my mind, I am a slave of God’s Torah; but with my old nature, I am a slave of sin’s “torah.”

Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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Jaume:
Adam sinned, and he did that without the law, nothing written.

Stones: Oh, but Adam did trampnsgress Jaume. God told him not to eat of that tree.

Jaume
It is absolute truth that the written code kills without the Holy Spirit.

stones: agreed

Jaune
It is also tru the law is written on our hearts by God...yes! Written. Because of this, an d being now spiritual, when we read the commandments and te law our hearts freely testify to their truth for God's will is truth.

Stones: I know that practically everyone on this board says this. But, I disagree. Writing on the heart was for Israel. Not for the body of Christ. A new creation man is what we are. This is not taught. This isn't given in truth because it will cause a response that most leaders of denominations have tried to do away with. And that is Life in the Spirit in the Spirit of God.

Would God need to follow a list of rules in order to be Himself? Odd question I know, but we are His Sons. I am a Son too for no gender in Spirit. The image being created of Christ Jesus. Something we don't really understand in the beginning.

A heart with law written on it is like David. We have a greater than David. We are walking Candlesticks. Oil flowing to a heart burning with love.

I know you have been insulted Jaume. Even by me but unintentional in my bumbling words. Jesus has been straightening out these wrinkles in us all. Taking away the spots of corrupted understanding. Please forgive us Jaume.

But, time is moving fast, and the Son is at the door. We need to grow up.






Nowhere does Jesus say He has abolished the written law (understood by the spirit), but He has fulfilledd the law and the prophets........... He aLSO has declared the law is in effect, but here is the barb, people read this but do not learn from Him how it is to be since His advent.

This is sad and true. I say sad for those who believe disobedience has been given the green light by grace.
[/QUOTE]

not only did Adam trampsngressed, but he transgressed too! Stupid spellcheck only works when it wants. Lol
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,259
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You are teaching me that the law is spiritual?

When I post the Holy Spirit gives us understanding of the law according to Jesus christ and our hearts witness to its veracity, how much more spiritual can it be?

Also, as Paul teaches in Romans, faith establishes the law. Now what is estabished is not abolished.

Today, because of this gift of teh Holy Spirit, of God, when we read teh Commandments and teh law, we know the wisdom and morality and our Father's will for us.

It is a shame so many believe the law is still 611, aactually it is kind of ridiculous since there isno Israel we live in (yet) and there is no Temple, no Levitical Priesthood.........

The Chief and the Cornerstone was rejected of men and taken to heaven. Now there is not one stone left upon the other of the living stones of the Temple, but when Jesus returns, He will rebuild the Temple......let he who has ears hear what the Spirit says to the Body...........
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
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The ten commandments are not for all time.

They are only for people who HAVE NOT come to Christ. For people who don't believe in the New Covenant in Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:6-9
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

If the letter kills but the spirit gives life then to put yourself back under the 10 commandments after coming to Christ and receiving Life is to put yourself back under death.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
RED. Really! So we can go round stealing, murdering, worshipping false gods and graven images......

Come on, you know better than that.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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You are teaching me that the law is spiritual?

When I post the Holy Spirit gives us understanding of the law according to Jesus christ and our hearts witness to its veracity, how much more spiritual can it be?

Also, as Paul teaches in Romans, faith establishes the law. Now what is estabished is not abolished.

Today, because of this gift of teh Holy Spirit, of God, when we read teh Commandments and teh law, we know the wisdom and morality and our Father's will for us.

It is a shame so many believe the law is still 611, aactually it is kind of ridiculous since there isno Israel we live in (yet) and there is no Temple, no Levitical Priesthood.........

The Chief and the Cornerstone was rejected of men and taken to heaven. Now there is not one stone left upon the other of the living stones of the Temple, but when Jesus returns, He will rebuild the Temple......let he who has ears hear what the Spirit says to the Body...........
Jaume

You are taking Romans 3:31 out of context. This is about the covenant of circumcision which no longer applies. We put our faith in the promise that God saidvtonPaul, that we are circumcised in heart of our flesh. Flesh being our human nature with its frailties, both physical and moral, and it's passions. This faith establishes the command of circumcision in order to be of Israel. Making of both gentile and Jew, the one new man of Spirit.

The Spiritual man or woman living in the Spirit, needs no law. Our heart is His.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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RED. Really! So we can go round stealing, murdering, worshipping false gods and graven images......

Come on, you know better than that.
You think that one born of God does these things?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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This is The Complete Jewish Bible, translated from the Hebrew to English Hiz.

25 Thanks be to God [, he will]! —through Yeshua the Messiah, our Lord! To sum up: with my mind, I am a slave of God’s Torah; but with my old nature, I am a slave of sin’s “torah.”

Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”
Just for clarity, Jesus is Gods Torah. Word!
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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"The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."
I really would like to say that this was before Pentecost, but....*sigh* I can't. In truth? Yes. Our flesh has been rendered powerless. It's the idols that we love. Forgive us Lord.