Pope Amends Bible, Art. LORD's prayer
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Well there should definitely be pope-bashing about this issue. Almost all English translation say "and lead us not" or "bring us not" into temptation, because that is exactly what the Greek says.
καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν, ἀλλὰ ῥῦσαι ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ τοῦ πονηροῦ. ὅτι σοῦ ἐστιν ἡ βασιλεία καὶ ἡ δύναμις καὶ ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας. ἀμήν.
Strong's Concordance
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eispheró
Phonetic Spelling: (ice-fer'-o)
Short Definition: I lead into, bring in
Definition: I lead into, bring in, announce.
The Lord must have had a very good reason to word it in that manner, since He was actually TEACHING His disciples (and us) and to what to pray for.
καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν, ἀλλὰ ῥῦσαι ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ τοῦ πονηροῦ. ὅτι σοῦ ἐστιν ἡ βασιλεία καὶ ἡ δύναμις καὶ ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας. ἀμήν.
Strong's Concordance
eispheró: lit. or fig. to carry inward
Original Word: εἰσφέρωPart of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eispheró
Phonetic Spelling: (ice-fer'-o)
Short Definition: I lead into, bring in
Definition: I lead into, bring in, announce.
The Lord must have had a very good reason to word it in that manner, since He was actually TEACHING His disciples (and us) and to what to pray for.
Whatever may have been said in Aramaic, there is absolutely no evidence that the Gospel of Matthew was translated from Aramaic to Greek. And since all conservative Christians accept the Greek NT as the Word of God, then those were the exact words given to Matthew. Once people start playing fast and loose with the text of Scripture, there is no end to corrupting the Bible.
"Further, not a trace can be discovered in this Gospel itself of its being a translation. Michaelis tried to detect, and fancied that he had succeeded in detecting, one or two such. Other Germans since, and Davidson and Cureton among ourselves, have made the same attempt. But the entire failure of all such attempts is now generally admitted, and candid advocates of a Hebrew original are quite ready to own that none such are to be found, and that but for external testimony no one would have imagined that the Greek was not the original. This they regard as showing how perfectly the translation has been executed; but those who know best what translating from one language into another is will be the readiest to own that this is tantamount to giving up the question. This Gospel proclaims its own originality in a number of striking points; such as its manner of quoting from the Old Testament, and its phraseology in some peculiar cases. But the close verbal coincidences of our Greek Matthew with the next two Gospels must not be quite passed over. There are but two possible ways of explaining this. Either the translator, sacrificing verbal fidelity in his version, intentionally conformed certain parts of his author's work to the second and third Gospels—in which case it can hardly be called Matthew's Gospel at all—or our Greek Matthew is itself the original."
A commentary, critical and explanatory, on the Old and New Testaments, Matthew, Jamieson, Fausset, Brown.
At the same time, it is the duty of preachers to explain what is meant in that verse, which means comparing Scripture with Scripture.
"Further, not a trace can be discovered in this Gospel itself of its being a translation. Michaelis tried to detect, and fancied that he had succeeded in detecting, one or two such. Other Germans since, and Davidson and Cureton among ourselves, have made the same attempt. But the entire failure of all such attempts is now generally admitted, and candid advocates of a Hebrew original are quite ready to own that none such are to be found, and that but for external testimony no one would have imagined that the Greek was not the original. This they regard as showing how perfectly the translation has been executed; but those who know best what translating from one language into another is will be the readiest to own that this is tantamount to giving up the question. This Gospel proclaims its own originality in a number of striking points; such as its manner of quoting from the Old Testament, and its phraseology in some peculiar cases. But the close verbal coincidences of our Greek Matthew with the next two Gospels must not be quite passed over. There are but two possible ways of explaining this. Either the translator, sacrificing verbal fidelity in his version, intentionally conformed certain parts of his author's work to the second and third Gospels—in which case it can hardly be called Matthew's Gospel at all—or our Greek Matthew is itself the original."
A commentary, critical and explanatory, on the Old and New Testaments, Matthew, Jamieson, Fausset, Brown.
At the same time, it is the duty of preachers to explain what is meant in that verse, which means comparing Scripture with Scripture.
Problem with that is it is written that Abram told Pharaoh that Sarai was his sister, and later Abraham, the prophet, told King Abimelech that Sarah that was his sister. Not to mention that you are basically saying that you concur with “al-Taqiyya”? In the account with King Abimelech, the scriptures record:
And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah. Genesis 20:2
However, in the scriptures it is written;
But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation? Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
Genesis 20:4-5
Does sound like the King didn't have the fear of God when he was told Abraham's sister was the prophet's wife. So the next day Abimelech speaks with the prophet Abraham:
10 And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing?
11 And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.
Genesis 20
So if one is claiming that the prophet Abraham only said Sarah was his sister out of fear, then the following verse would reprove that.
And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife. Genesis 20:12
And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah. Genesis 20:2
However, in the scriptures it is written;
But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation? Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
Genesis 20:4-5
Does sound like the King didn't have the fear of God when he was told Abraham's sister was the prophet's wife. So the next day Abimelech speaks with the prophet Abraham:
10 And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing?
11 And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.
Genesis 20
So if one is claiming that the prophet Abraham only said Sarah was his sister out of fear, then the following verse would reprove that.
And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife. Genesis 20:12
Whatever may have been said in Aramaic, there is absolutely no evidence that the Gospel of Matthew was translated from Aramaic to Greek.
Perhaps not, I'm not talking about the entire gospel. The original language of the 'Pater Noster' was Aramaic, not Greek. The Aramaic original at some point was put into Greek.
Perhaps not, I'm not talking about the entire gospel. The original language of the 'Pater Noster' was Aramaic, not Greek. The Aramaic original at some point was put into Greek.
Al-Taqiyya is an islamic practice of lying to unbelievers about the teachings of islam... Abraham never lied to Pharaoh about anything God revealed to Abraham about the will of God in regard to religion.. Abraham's lie was a personal lie to Pharaoh.. Not a lie about God or his will.. Also the Scriptures reveal that it was a lie .. So in no way does it show any Al-Tagiyya from Abraham or from me..
Giving another example of Abraham lying about His wife does not change my explanation. Again The Bible here reveals that it was Abraham lie. Abraham was just a faulty man who sinned and had flaws like any other man.. Indeed most of the Bible prophets where very faulty men who's sins are often revealed in the scriptures.. It is Gods way of stopping people from making prophets into personality cult figures.. So that the focus of the readers attention should be directed to the teachings of God and God himself rather then the exaltation of men..
I have read that Taqiyya allows for one to lie to save their own life, I think that the practice of lying to unbelievers is more a interpretation of the Apostle Paul's teaching than Islam.
'For if the truth of God has more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?" Romans 3:7
I have not written unto you because you know not the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Do you believe this?
I never said Abraham lied, I merely posed a question.
And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife. And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother.
Gen 20:12-13
Sarai was Harans' wife, until his death.
28 And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.
29 And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.
Genesis 11
And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there. Gen 11:31
'For if the truth of God has more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?" Romans 3:7
I have not written unto you because you know not the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Do you believe this?
I never said Abraham lied, I merely posed a question.
And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife. And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother.
Gen 20:12-13
Sarai was Harans' wife, until his death.
28 And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.
29 And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah.
Genesis 11
And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there. Gen 11:31
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Ahhh the Eurythmics.. they where a bit excentric in a weird English way but they where pretty good at what they did.. 
lol
[video=youtube;RCdneDxFRYQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCdneDxFRYQ[/video]
lol[video=youtube;RCdneDxFRYQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCdneDxFRYQ[/video]
I think Sarai was Haran's daughter. Abram was the third son of Terah. He was born when Terah was 130. Haran was born when Terah was 70. Nahor was named for his grandpa Nahor who may have died the year before he was born.
The least of the son of Terah was chosen to believe God's promise.
The same for Jesus? He was chosen (Luke 9:35). anointed from his companions (Hebrews 1:8-9)
The Hebrew insists on a plural when 3 or more. If 2, then singular.
If the Holy Spirit is the mind of God and not a person 1 John 2:1 (the Advocate is Jesus after resurrection). Why didn't He breathe on the disciples when he was in human form to give them the Holy Spirit? He wasn't allowed to or he wasn't able to.John20:22 The Elohim are Jesus' companions who weren't chosen plus Jesus, the first born Son and God the Father.
The least of the son of Terah was chosen to believe God's promise.
The same for Jesus? He was chosen (Luke 9:35). anointed from his companions (Hebrews 1:8-9)
The Hebrew insists on a plural when 3 or more. If 2, then singular.
If the Holy Spirit is the mind of God and not a person 1 John 2:1 (the Advocate is Jesus after resurrection). Why didn't He breathe on the disciples when he was in human form to give them the Holy Spirit? He wasn't allowed to or he wasn't able to.John20:22 The Elohim are Jesus' companions who weren't chosen plus Jesus, the first born Son and God the Father.
Wouldn't a man leaving his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife mean Abram would have left his father like Nabor since he didn't go with Terah. Taking your brother's wife from tradition wouldn't be the same thought.
That would mean Abram didn't leave until Terah died when he was 205. Any other supporting scripture or just the one?
That would mean Abram didn't leave until Terah died when he was 205. Any other supporting scripture or just the one?
Gen 12:1
Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Matt 22:24
Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
Gen 11:30
But Sarai was barren; she had no child.
Gen 11:31
And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife;
Gen 20:12
And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Matt 22:24
Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
Gen 11:30
But Sarai was barren; she had no child.
Gen 11:31
And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife;
Gen 20:12
And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
I am not a fan of this Pope . He is liberal and involved with issues that the Word of God has said and very clear on the subject which many this pope is wrong or not in line with the context of the Word of God.
which is no surprise when they present him as the authority or head for the WHOLE Church and not Christ. making changes to something as the Prayer Jesus gave to the disciples seems arrogant. for over 1400 years no one caught this? So the problem is not the word but those who are not picking it up and searching the contextual meaning without relying on a Pope.
which is no surprise when they present him as the authority or head for the WHOLE Church and not Christ. making changes to something as the Prayer Jesus gave to the disciples seems arrogant. for over 1400 years no one caught this? So the problem is not the word but those who are not picking it up and searching the contextual meaning without relying on a Pope.
Greetings Zmouth!
I have to say that what you wrote above is very confusing and alarming. In your post above you said "neither do I follow Jesus." And then you provided a scripture where Jesus is telling Peter to follow him? Here is the scripture that you said you were told to give us:
"Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?”
So, when Peter said to the Lord regarding John "what about him?" the Lord said, "what is that to you? You must follow me." Therefore, the Lord is telling Peter to follow him. How does that support your claim of not following Jesus? If anything it supports the opposite of what you are believing.
Also, by saying that you only follow the "one true God," are you then saying that Jesus is not God? And what about all the other verses where Jesus says "follow me."
It is not a matter of offending us that you don't follow Jesus, but brings into question your salvation. Is Jesus not "Emmanuel" meaning "God with us?" Is he not God in the flesh? For as scripture states: "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."
Didn't Thomas, after seeing the Lord's nail prints say to Jesus, "my Lord and my God"?
Even God the Father call the Son "God."
"But about the Son he (the Father) says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
?
I have to say that what you wrote above is very confusing and alarming. In your post above you said "neither do I follow Jesus." And then you provided a scripture where Jesus is telling Peter to follow him? Here is the scripture that you said you were told to give us:
"Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?”
So, when Peter said to the Lord regarding John "what about him?" the Lord said, "what is that to you? You must follow me." Therefore, the Lord is telling Peter to follow him. How does that support your claim of not following Jesus? If anything it supports the opposite of what you are believing.
Also, by saying that you only follow the "one true God," are you then saying that Jesus is not God? And what about all the other verses where Jesus says "follow me."
It is not a matter of offending us that you don't follow Jesus, but brings into question your salvation. Is Jesus not "Emmanuel" meaning "God with us?" Is he not God in the flesh? For as scripture states: "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."
Didn't Thomas, after seeing the Lord's nail prints say to Jesus, "my Lord and my God"?
Even God the Father call the Son "God."
"But about the Son he (the Father) says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
?
LOL, Since God is not the author of confusion then I guess John 8:47 wouldn't apply then would it?
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. John 21:22
So what version are you using which translates tarry as 'remain alive'?
So Jesus told John not to follow him also, at least I am not the only one then.
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. John 14:23
What is written that the other disciples had said when they were shown his hands and feet?
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. John 21:22
So what version are you using which translates tarry as 'remain alive'?
So Jesus told John not to follow him also, at least I am not the only one then.
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. John 14:23
What is written that the other disciples had said when they were shown his hands and feet?
2 things orthodoxy misses. First is most important. Before Thomas declared My Lord and My God, Jesus appeared to Mary Magdelene at the tomb a week earlier. Jesus said, "I go to my Father and your Father. My God and your God." If we accept scripture then Jesus has a God. Jesus' God is the Most High God who is the one and only true God.
Point 1 and half. The firstborn son is chosen not created. Study the Genesis patriarchs including Shem and Abram.
Point 2 of lesser importance but interesting. Jesus breathed on the disciples and told them to receive the Holy Spirit. John21:22. Jesus could not give the Holy Spirit until after His resurrection. The Holy Spirit does proceed from the Father to the Son then to believers. This part of the original Creed is correct (the Spirit proceeds from the Father). In agreement with the equality clause of the Creeds (The Father, Son and Spirit are God), the Creed was changed to the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son by the western Catholic Church while the Eastern Orthodox kept the original Creed.
In John 2:1, we find the Advocate or advocate (NIV deleted this word likely in support of the Creed) that Jesus said would be sent in "My Name" is Jesus who was given the mind of God after His resurrection.
When Jesus told the disciples that He was greater than them and that He was sending them into the world after washing their feet (John 13) we believe Him. When Jesus says that the Father is greater than I and the Father sent Me, we don't believe Jesus because that doesn't fit the Creeds.
Point 1 and half. The firstborn son is chosen not created. Study the Genesis patriarchs including Shem and Abram.
Point 2 of lesser importance but interesting. Jesus breathed on the disciples and told them to receive the Holy Spirit. John21:22. Jesus could not give the Holy Spirit until after His resurrection. The Holy Spirit does proceed from the Father to the Son then to believers. This part of the original Creed is correct (the Spirit proceeds from the Father). In agreement with the equality clause of the Creeds (The Father, Son and Spirit are God), the Creed was changed to the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son by the western Catholic Church while the Eastern Orthodox kept the original Creed.
In John 2:1, we find the Advocate or advocate (NIV deleted this word likely in support of the Creed) that Jesus said would be sent in "My Name" is Jesus who was given the mind of God after His resurrection.
When Jesus told the disciples that He was greater than them and that He was sending them into the world after washing their feet (John 13) we believe Him. When Jesus says that the Father is greater than I and the Father sent Me, we don't believe Jesus because that doesn't fit the Creeds.