You May Not Want to be Taken/Raptured

[Nehemiah6]

There is no woman riding the four beast in the vision in Daniel.

Since Divine revelation is progressive, we should not expect everything to be exactly as seen later in Scripture. Daniel begins the prophecies concerning the Antichrist and his kingdom, but the full picture is found in the rest of the Bible.

What Daniel has done is shown us how the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled until the second coming of Christ. The book of Revelation adds greatly to the details of Daniel's prophecies.

 

[louis]

I believe the vision of the woman, the city of Babylon, is a religious system.
Her widespread trade is false religion.
Revelation uses common prophetic themes from the Old Testament.
I see her as the prostitute (religion) which rides the beast (empire)

In a way widespread trade is false religion.
Commerce is what many individuals' worship; especially a certain city.

 

[iamsoandso]

Since Divine revelation is progressive, we should not expect everything to be exactly as seen later in Scripture. Daniel begins the prophecies concerning the Antichrist and his kingdom, but the full picture is found in the rest of the Bible.

What Daniel has done is shown us how the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled until the second coming of Christ. The book of Revelation adds greatly to the details of Daniel's prophecies.

Some see the Revelation given before ad70 and others see it as late as ad96 when do you see it given?

 

[louis]

The beast is the iron legs of Dan. 2, and the 4th beast of Dan. 7.




Civil Rome rises from the sea of the gentile nations.

The earth beast is the religious Rome, Caesar worship (worship the creation).




The story of the little scroll ends at the 7th trumpet.

Rev 12, begins describing the interaction of the beast over Israel.

Rev 13, is describing the beast in more detail.

All the beasts, sea beast, earth beast, dragon with 7 heads, scarlet beast, are Rome.









5 have fallen, one is. That means that the beast was present at the time of the writing of the Rev.







At the time of the writing it was Rome.




It's still Rome, he has a kingdom, and a people. It's not necessarily an economic issue.




Rome sits on the river Tiber that links it to the sea.

All the events in Revelation 4 through 22 regard the hereafter (Revelation 4:1), after the book of Revelation was written circa 95 AD.

Revelation 4:1 [FONT=&quot]After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafte[/FONT]

 

[abcdef]

All the events in Revelation 4 through 22 regard the hereafter (Revelation 4:1), after the book of Revelation was written circa 95 AD.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafte

Brother Louis,

John is also told to write what he has seen, what is, and what shall be hereafter Rev 1:19.

Many of the events shown were future to 96 ad, but some are past to 96 ad, which for example would be the 7 seals. The 6th seal being the dest of Jeru 70 ad.

But the trumpets would show the wrath on Israel the natural branches after 96 ad. until the story of the little scroll ends at the 7th trp.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Some see the Revelation given before ad70 and others see it as late as ad96 when do you see it given?

I believe the later date is the correct one, and most conservative Bible scholars would agree.

PLACE AND TIME OF WRITING.--The best authorities among the Fathers state that John was exiled under Domitian (IRENÆUS [Against Heresies, 5; 30]; CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA; EUSEBIUS [Ecclesiastical History, 3.20]). VICTORINUS says that he had to labor in the mines of Patmos. At Domitian's death, A.D. 95, he returned to Ephesus under the Emperor Nerva. Probably it was immediately after his return that he wrote, under divine inspiration, the account of the visions vouchsafed to him in Patmos ( Revelation 1:2 Revelation 1:9 seems to imply that he wrote the visions immediately after seeing them.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/com...brown/revelation/revelation-introduction.html

 

[iamsoandso]

I believe the later date is the correct one, and most conservative Bible scholars would agree.

PLACE AND TIME OF WRITING.--The best authorities among the Fathers state that John was exiled under Domitian (IRENÆUS [Against Heresies, 5; 30]; CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA; EUSEBIUS [Ecclesiastical History, 3.20]). VICTORINUS says that he had to labor in the mines of Patmos. At Domitian's death, A.D. 95, he returned to Ephesus under the Emperor Nerva. Probably it was immediately after his return that he wrote, under divine inspiration, the account of the visions vouchsafed to him in Patmos ( Revelation 1:2Revelation 1:9 seems to imply that he wrote the visions immediately after seeing them.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/com...brown/revelation/revelation-introduction.html

In divine progressive revelation,other than Revelation where else was it reviled to them/us?

 

[abcdef]

There is no woman riding the four beast in the vision in Daniel.

Day1,day2,day3,day4,day5(6th is) and the 7th has not yet come but will and continue just a short time and go into perdition,the 8th is of the 7,,,"this generation shall not pass...",,,it's a clock.

The beast that was and was not yet is was in the pit in the sixth day of the generations of the heaven and the earth(Genesis 2:4).


One beast rises from the sea,another from the earth,another ascends from the pit,,,same beast ?

All are Rome.

Iron Daniel 2, Rome.

The 4th beast Daniel , Rome.

The beast that ascends out of the abyss at the 5th trp., Rome.

The sea beast with 7 heads and 10 horns, Rome.

The earth beast, Rome.

The scarlet beast Rome.

The dragon spirit, 7 heads and 10 horns Rev 12:3. Rome.

The dragon, Rev 20:2, that ascends out of the abyss, Rome.

 

[iamsoandso]

All are Rome.

Iron Daniel 2, Rome.

The 4th beast Daniel , Rome.

The beast that ascends out of the abyss at the 5th trp., Rome.

The sea beast with 7 heads and 10 horns, Rome.

The earth beast, Rome.

The scarlet beast Rome.

The dragon spirit, 7 heads and 10 horns Rev 12:3. Rome.

The dragon, Rev 20:2, that ascends out of the abyss, Rome.

So then if in ad66-70 if those Jews minted their own coins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage and then they revolted against the authority of "ROME" (Josephus/wars) then they didn't fulfil Revelation 13:17 in no way or form?

 

[abcdef]

So then if in ad66-70 if those Jews minted their own coins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage and then they revolted against the authority of "ROME" (Josephus/wars) then they didn't fulfil Revelation 13:17 in no way or form?

Brother iamsoandso,

I'm not sure what you mean, but the mark of Caesar worship was related to all commerce as far as I know.

An example of persons who didn't wear the mark would be John the Baptist and Jesus.

Brother Willie-T had a great post on the mark some time ago,

It was about the procedure used when entering a city and doing commerce at that time, the time of the empire, and how it was required to acknowledge Caesar.

 

[iamsoandso]

Brother iamsoandso,

I'm not sure what you mean, but the mark of Caesar worship was related to all commerce as far as I know.

An example of persons who didn't wear the mark would be John the Baptist and Jesus.

Brother Willie-T had a great post on the mark some time ago,

It was about the procedure used when entering a city and doing commerce at that time, the time of the empire, and how it was required to acknowledge Caesar.

Never the less though if they minted their own coins later(ad66-70) and rebelled then they repented of that and between ad66-70 did not fulfil Revelation 13:17?

 

[abcdef]

Never the less though if they minted their own coins later(ad66-70) and rebelled then they repented of that and between ad66-70 did not fulfil Revelation 13:17?

Brother iam,

The time of the mark began when Rome entered Israel in 67 ad.

It extends far beyond the 70 ad dest of Jeru, until the power of Rome over the natural branches ended, when Israel was restored to Jerusalem.

So although the time of the mark includes the dest of Jeru, it is not confined to that small time.

What they did in that little time was not accountable over the entire period.

 

[iamsoandso]

Brother iam,

The time of the mark began when Rome entered Israel in 67 ad.

It extends far beyond the 70 ad dest of Jeru, until the power of Rome over the natural branches ended, when Israel was restored to Jerusalem.

So although the time of the mark includes the dest of Jeru, it is not confined to that small time.

What they did in that little time was not accountable over the entire period.

oh,, what exactly was the mark and the image that they worshipped?

 

[iamsoandso]

ohhhh,that little time and accountability,,,,tiss the error...

 

[abcdef]

oh,, what exactly was the mark and the image that they worshipped?

The "image" was Caesar and Rome.

The mark would be an identification like a brand for slaves or as a sign of ownership.

I believe that it was received after an offering was made to the image of Caesar.

As far as the exact details, I can't say.

It may be like the mark people get on their forehead on ash Wednesday.

 

[abcdef]

ohhhh,that little time and accountability,,,,tiss the error...

It's not about the Jews minting their own coins.

That's just a small part of a 2000 year period.

 

[iamsoandso]

It's not about the Jews minting their own coins.

That's just a small part of a 2000 year period.

I don't get that,,,so if you spread it out over 2000 years no one would even notice it's the almighty God's wrath?

 

[abcdef]

I don't get that,,,so if you spread it out over 2000 years no one would even notice it's the almighty God's wrath?

Brother iam,

The wrath of God was against the natural branches for rejecting the Pentecost kingdom gospel message, so the natural branches were broken off.

The natural branches who accepted the gospel kingdom did not suffer God's wrath.

====

But then you may ask, "What is the wrath that is described, that the cut off natural branches suffer, that the kingdom branches do not?

The wrath is describing their relationship with God, the cut off branches.

The fire of judgment, the famine of god's Words and blessings, the mass murder and attempted genocide of the natural branches.

--

The kingdom branches have a living relationship with God through the Holy Spirit.

The lion has the spirit of the lamb, the serpent also has the spirit of the lamb, souls who were once ruled by Satan, are now filled with the Holy Spirit.

They both live on the same planet, live their lives together, but the members of the kingdom do not suffer the withdrawing of blessings in their relationship with God.

That is what the wrath of the trib is, the withdrawing of blessings on the natural branches for rejecting the Pentecost Kingdom. Jacob's trouble.

======

So now you ask did anybody notice the wrath of God for 2000 yrs?

Well, look at the history of the interaction between Rome and Israel for the last 1900 years,

AFTER, AFTER, the dest of Jeru.

It didn't stop there, it kept going. (7 trps)

Rome attempted the genocide of Israel for 1900 centuries, it was HELL ON EARTH for Israel.

Look at your history books, if you were Israel and did not acknowledge the Bishop of Rome (BoR) you were killed, or worse.

100's and 100's and 100's of years, etc., Israel suffered at the hands of the Roman Caesar Antichrist.

Only when Israel was restored to Jerusalem in 1967, was the power of Rome over Israel ended, when the iron toes ended.

==

And now we are being far removed from the memories of that time, the history of that time.

It is not as "up front", as it might have been 400 yrs ago.

People teach that "it wasn't so bad", let history speak for itself.

No, there will never be a time of Jacob's trouble again, it lasted 1900 yrs, with terrible suffering for the natural cut off branches.

 

[abcdef]

Ezek 5:12, "A third of thee shall die with the pestilence, and with famine shall they be consumed in the midst of thee: and a third part shall fall by the sword round about thee; and I will scatter a third part onto all the winds, and I will draw out a sword after them."

Spoken about the dest of Jeru Ezek 5:5, in 70 ad.

The one who is taken, is taken away as a slave.

The one left behind is dead.

The last one flees. Lk 17:30-37, with a sword after him.

 

[shrume]

I believe the entire book of Revelation concerns the future. The seals, trumpets, thunders, bowls, God's wrath, the beast, the false prophet, the mark, the two witnesses: all future.

What happened in 66-70 AD had nothing to do with the book of Revelation.

I don't believe the prophesies of Mark 13, Luke 21, or Matt 24 were fulfilled in 66-70 AD, either. Maybe -partially-, but the main subject of them concerns the tribulation, which is still future.

Jesus certainly did not return in 70 AD (or whichever year Preterists claim he did).