What is the proper salary for a pastor?

[Depleted]

My only problem with your view....a piece of paper from some college does not equal intelligence, common sense or wisdom.......I have met many an educated idiot with less common sense than the rocks in my driveway and men with no formal education that are brilliant!!!!

Call me picky, but I want an educated pastor teaching me. I've had the idiots who convinced me, (for a while), that I was not born again because I can't speak in tongues and I did break the 7th commandment because I was raped. I've had the idiots try to convince me "predestined" really can't mean "predestined," and lots of idiots try to teach me God isn't really sovereign.

There is no brilliance in the area of teaching scripture without a lot of education! And that is common sense!

You want someone with a little informal education and common sesne? Fine. Deacon work is admirable.

 

[BillG]

I've had the idiots who convinced me, (for a while), that I was not born again because I can't speak in tongues

Yeh I lived under that one for a long time.
Truly shocking that leaders teach such trash along with other stuff.

I'd gladly pay them to keep thier mouths shut.

 

[lightbearer]

Call me picky, but I want an educated pastor teaching me. I've had the idiots who convinced me, (for a while), that I was not born again because I can't speak in tongues and I did break the 7th commandment because I was raped. I've had the idiots try to convince me "predestined" really can't mean "predestined," and lots of idiots try to teach me God isn't really sovereign.

Praise the LORD you are here and did not give up and lose sight of HIM! It is so easy to do as Israel and fall! We are not to look even to the most learned, but to him who is faithful and just to finish the work. Merry Christmas!

There is no brilliance in the area of teaching scripture without a lot of education! And that is common sense!

You want someone with a little informal education and common sesne? Fine. Deacon work is admirable.

What? But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
(Mat 23:11 KJV)

Servant here is diakonos (deacon). Here is an excerpt from "Thayer's Greek to English Lexicon unabridged"

G1249
διάκονος, διακονου, ὁ, ἡ (of uncertain origin, but by no means, as was formerly thought, compounded of διά and κόνις, so as to mean, properly, 'raising dust by hastening'; cf. ἐγκόνειν; for the alpha in the preposition διά is short, in διάκονος, long. Alexander Buttmann (1873) Lexil. i., p. 218ff (English translation, p. 231f) thinks it is derived from the obsolete διάκω equivalent to διήκω (allied with διώκω; cf. Vanicek, p. 363)); one who executes the commands of another, especially of a master; a sergeant, attendant, minister;
1. universally: of the servant of a king, Mat_22:13; with the genitive of the person served, Mat_20:26; Mat_23:11; Mar_9:35; Mar_10:43 (in which passage it is used figuratively of those who advance others' interests even at the sacrifice of their own); τῆς ἐκκλησίας, of one who does what promotes the welfare and prosperity of the church, Col_1:25; διάκονοι τοῦ Θεοῦ, those through whom God carries on his administration on earth, as magistrates, Rom_13:4; teachers of the Christian religion, 1Co_3:5; 2Co_6:4; 1Th_3:2 R T Tr WH text L marginal reading; the same are called διάκονοι (τοῦ) Χριστοῦ, 2Co_11:23; Col_1:7; 1Ti_4:6; ἐν κυρίῳ, in the cause of the Lord, Col_4:7; (Eph_6:21); ὁ διάκονος μου, my follower, Joh_12:26; τοῦ Σατανᾶ, whom Satan uses as a servant, 2Co_11:15; (ἁμαρτίας, Gal_2:17); διάκονος περιτομῆς (abstract for concrete), of Christ, who labored for the salvation of the circumcised, i. e. the Jews, Rom_15:8; with the genitive of the thing to which service is rendered, i. e. to which one is devoted: καινῆς διαθήκης, 2Co_3:6; τοῦ εὐαγγελίου, Eph_3:7; Col_1:23; δικαιοσύνης, 2Co_11:15.
2. a deacon, one who, by virtue of the office assigned him by the church, cares for the poor and has charge of and distributes the money collected for their use (cf. BB. DD., Dict. of Christ. Antiq., Schaff-Herzog under the word ; Lightfoot's Commentary on Philippians, dissert. i. § i.; Julius Muller, Dogmatische Abhandlungen, p. 560ff): Php_1:1; 1Ti_3:8; 1Ti_3:12, cf. Act_6:3 ff; ἡ διάκονος, a deaconess (ministra, Pliny, epistles 10, 97), a woman to whom the care of either poor or sick women was entrusted, Rom_16:1 (cf. Dictionaries as above, under the word ; Lightfoot as above, p. 191; B. D. under the word ).....

In reference to a Deacon. It is a high calling.

Peter having learned a lesson gives them honorable mention right beside Bishops!

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christaul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
(Php 1:1 KJV)

Paul's instruction confers with Peter's honorable mention

Likewise ( in same manner) must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
(1Ti 3:8-13 KJV)

Sadly the high calling of Deacon to which Peter gave honorable mention; though Ordained by GOD came through the ill of self importance. Blinded by what we see to be our mission; not seeing the full scope of it!

Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables. (Not so LORD! You shall never wash my feet. But HE saith unto them he that is greatest shall be Diaconus to all. And no greater Love can one show but to lay down their life for the brethren!

​

Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
(Act 6:2,3 KJV)

Ahhh the prerequisite!

Men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom!

So Stephen full of wisdom and the Holy Ghost, he whose name means Crown. Chosen to serve tables, became the first Martyr while evangelizing to the learned of Israel.

Yes indeed! Simon Peter, the hearing stone learned a lesson as did the rest of the Twelve!
​

And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
(Act 7:56-60 KJV)

 

[dcontroversal]

Call me picky, but I want an educated pastor teaching me. I've had the idiots who convinced me, (for a while), that I was not born again because I can't speak in tongues and I did break the 7th commandment because I was raped. I've had the idiots try to convince me "predestined" really can't mean "predestined," and lots of idiots try to teach me God isn't really sovereign.

There is no brilliance in the area of teaching scripture without a lot of education! And that is common sense!

You want someone with a little informal education and common sesne? Fine. Deacon work is admirable.

A. Never said I was against it
B. Just made a point that a piece of paper on the wall does not indicate or equate to intelligence or common sense
c. And I have seen uneducated men well versed in the bible....it is the Spirit that teaches not necessarily men with degrees and John said you have no need that anyone teach you anything because you have the Spirit.
D. To say a man from a seminary is better equipped or a better teacher is not necessarily correct.
E. Saul was educated from the best "seminary" of his day and had to be blinded and re-educated by Jesus instead of men to get it right....

 

[MarcR]

Actually it doesn't have to be horibly expensive if you have either some craftsmanship or some skilled friends.

In many places, an acre of wooded land can be bought for under $20,000. If you cut and mill your own lumber, your total building costs could be under $35,000 for a 3 bedroom 2 bath house.

 

[Marcelo]

A. Never said I was against it
B. Just made a point that a piece of paper on the wall does not indicate or equate to intelligence or common sense
c. And I have seen uneducated men well versed in the bible....it is the Spirit that teaches not necessarily men with degrees and John said you have no need that anyone teach you anything because you have the Spirit.
D. To say a man from a seminary is better equipped or a better teacher is not necessarily correct.
E. Saul was educated from the best "seminary" of his day and had to be blinded and re-educated by Jesus instead of men to get it right....

I have nothing against pastors being paid -- biblically speaking there's nothing wrong with it. I just would like to tell you brothers and sisters about my 30-year experience with unpaid ministers.

In my denomination nobody gets paid and the churches work very well. Reverence and communion with God are prominent, miracles happen from time to time, members are mostly God-fearing people (in the good sense), and in a certain way it resembles the primitive church.

Having unpaid ministers, however, does not eliminate all problems. Some preachers still seek approval from the audience, there is some degree of nepotism, and some preachers have a noticeable lack of Bible knowledge.

I think that churches with unpaid ministers can work especially if the leaders earnestly ask for God's guidance.

But ... again ... I'm not against salaried pastors provided they preach the truth. I know a number of unpaid preachers who sugar-coat the Gospel just to make people "happy".

 

[Depleted]

A. Never said I was against it
B. Just made a point that a piece of paper on the wall does not indicate or equate to intelligence or common sense
c. And I have seen uneducated men well versed in the bible....it is the Spirit that teaches not necessarily men with degrees and John said you have no need that anyone teach you anything because you have the Spirit.
D. To say a man from a seminary is better equipped or a better teacher is not necessarily correct.
E. Saul was educated from the best "seminary" of his day and had to be blinded and re-educated by Jesus instead of men to get it right....

And, lo and behold, the man educated more so than all the others, the man who hated Jesus enough to help kill Stephen, became the best teacher of Christ in the NT. It wasn't an accident. It wasn't coincidence. The Lord had Paul become educated highly to serve him and his people.

Actually a man educated in seminary -- a real seminary -- is the better teacher. He learned the bear minimum of what he needs to know to teach. Sure beats what happens on here. Everyone thinks they're an expert without having to prove expertise. And sure enough, there are babes in Christ falling for "You're not born again because you can't speak in tongues" along with the other false info I already gave, because we're uneducated and gullible.

Then comes the other two questions:
1. Just because you can learn doesn't make you a teacher, so does he have the ability to teach, and teach well? (That's where I failed. I learned most of what to teach, but I didn't learn how to teach well.)

2. Does he have the heart and spirit of the Lord to be a pastor?

In my denomination, that's what the series of tests after seminary tells the other teachers/pastors during licensing is for. They weed out the less-thans like me, (ones who should not teach), and they weed out the ones who never understood God and the Bible to teach it. We rarely have pastors be fired. And when they are, it's usually because they lied during licensure.

We start with the assumption a pastor knows what he's doing, because they train him to know that. Sure beats a brilliant engineer turned pastor because he's a nice guy. (Ends up he didn't like to study the Bible, prepare for a sermon, and had to learn how to study before teaching how to study, but he never used it again, because he hated studying and liked winging sermons. He is a nice guy though.)

 

[DJ2]

Call me picky, but I want an educated pastor teaching me. I've had the idiots who convinced me, (for a while), that I was not born again because I can't speak in tongues and I did break the 7th commandment because I was raped. I've had the idiots try to convince me "predestined" really can't mean "predestined," and lots of idiots try to teach me God isn't really sovereign.

There is no brilliance in the area of teaching scripture without a lot of education! And that is common sense!

You want someone with a little informal education and common sesne? Fine. Deacon work is admirable.

Depends on what you mean by educated. Saul of Tarsus was rather well educated and the early Christians feared him. An education is great if the education is biblically sound. BYU's Dept. of Theology graduates many each year but I would not want to see one at the church podium,

 

[Beez]

My first 50+ years was with uneducated pastors and preachers, and I'm still unraveling that mess! I am still having to undo a lot of bad teaching and to learn the most rudimentary biblical concepts! At this point -- at age 68 -- I don't think I will ever be through dealing with reeducation!

One of my most recent studies before last night's -- which is not even close to finished by any means -- the person of the H Spirit. As hesitant as I was, that was followed up by biblical examples of tongues -- a study I am dragging my feet on.
Before these, I started studying, again, Law, law, works, and sin. And last night, I was up all night with a biblical study of the end of time.

Some of these are simple concepts for most who have been students of the Bible, yet I have been such for 54 years, and I feel like a novice, because of spending so long with bad teaching. Sometimes, it is just plain disheartening.

It is fortunate that where I attend now, leaders and teachers are educated, or they are neither leading or teaching. I just wish I could attend all the classes, but I am fortunate to get one a week.

 

[fredoheaven]

It seems many people are getting their panties in a twist over how much pastors should make, so I'm going to ask -- how much should a pastor be paid?

And, how come they are supposed to do stuff with any extra money, yet no one ever questions if you should be too?

In the OT Law, the priest got 10%. 10% of the land, 10% of the herds. 10% of the crops. And that was included in tithing to the Lord.

2.2 million people walked out of Egypt. 10% is a lot, no matter how you slice it. And once Jerusalem had the temple, the Levites had the land around it, plus herds, and crops, and whatever other 10% the people gave. They used the tithe to keep up the temple, and to keep up with all that was required in the temple. (You can't keep using the same grills and candlesticks without thinking they need replacing eventually, and considering the grill and candles were gold, it's "high maintenance.")

Now it seems "fair" to pay a pastor $20,000-$30,000 plus a parsonage. Or, worse yet, be a pastor part time, and have "a real job."

Is that Biblical? Or is that stingy?

And, yeah. I really do thinking private jet is above and beyond, but I don't know the answer. Then again, my idea of the high life has always been I want an Audi. lol

What should a pastor be paid? And what's the base for that?

The New Testament scriptures teach. our love to the pastor should have been doubled. While there’s no exact amount is paid, which depend on the local church capacity, I believe. Pastors are worthy of receiving remunerations if not it’s more than what the tenth in the O.T.

1 Timothy 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
1 Timothy 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

 

[Ralph-]

And, lo and behold, the man educated more so than all the others, the man who hated Jesus enough to help kill Stephen, became the best teacher of Christ in the NT. It wasn't an accident. It wasn't coincidence. The Lord had Paul become educated highly to serve him and his people.

Actually a man educated in seminary -- a real seminary -- is the better teacher. He learned the bear minimum of what he needs to know to teach. Sure beats what happens on here. Everyone thinks they're an expert without having to prove expertise. And sure enough, there are babes in Christ falling for "You're not born again because you can't speak in tongues" along with the other false info I already gave, because we're uneducated and gullible.

Then comes the other two questions:
1. Just because you can learn doesn't make you a teacher, so does he have the ability to teach, and teach well? (That's where I failed. I learned most of what to teach, but I didn't learn how to teach well.)

2. Does he have the heart and spirit of the Lord to be a pastor?

In my denomination, that's what the series of tests after seminary tells the other teachers/pastors during licensing is for. They weed out the less-thans like me, (ones who should not teach), and they weed out the ones who never understood God and the Bible to teach it. We rarely have pastors be fired. And when they are, it's usually because they lied during licensure.

We start with the assumption a pastor knows what he's doing, because they train him to know that. Sure beats a brilliant engineer turned pastor because he's a nice guy. (Ends up he didn't like to study the Bible, prepare for a sermon, and had to learn how to study before teaching how to study, but he never used it again, because he hated studying and liked winging sermons. He is a nice guy though.)

What pastors need is an ANOINTING. Instead we have people who go into the pastorate on mere knowledge. And not necessarily knowledge of God, but what they were taught. Which as you apparently now know can be two very different things. We think just because someone is a good speaker and very well trained and knowledgeable in the particular things he was taught and handles those teachings well that he must be sent of God. Not true at all. He's just good at what he knows, not good at knowing the truth.

It's all about the anointing. The church is full of educated pastors, but little anointing. I've only met 3 or 4 pastors that I sensed were anointed by God to be pastors. The rest were really no different than the sheep but had spent lots of money to be a leader in the church.

As far as I can tell at this point, an anointing is discerned by the ability of a person to know and teach the Bible with personal insights and inspirations that come from God and were not simply taught to him and told this is the truth, teach it. Just being good at parroting what you were taught is hardly the mark of a true pastor sent and anointed by God. A school teacher can do that. It's a skill and a talent to be able to teach, but by itself it's hardly what proves a person has been called to be a pastor/teacher. I think insightful and inspirational revelation is the mark of the true pastor.

To serve well and to be doubly honored is to be anointed. God's people will support such a man. You don't have to twist and manipulate the flock to support such a man.

 

[fredoheaven]

And, lo and behold, the man educated more so than all the others, the man who hated Jesus enough to help kill Stephen, became the best teacher of Christ in the NT. It wasn't an accident. It wasn't coincidence. The Lord had Paul become educated highly to serve him and his people.

Actually a man educated in seminary -- a real seminary -- is the better teacher. He learned the bear minimum of what he needs to know to teach. Sure beats what happens on here. Everyone thinks they're an expert without having to prove expertise. And sure enough, there are babes in Christ falling for "You're not born again because you can't speak in tongues" along with the other false info I already gave, because we're uneducated and gullible.

Then comes the other two questions:
1. Just because you can learn doesn't make you a teacher, so does he have the ability to teach, and teach well? (That's where I failed. I learned most of what to teach, but I didn't learn how to teach well.)

2. Does he have the heart and spirit of the Lord to be a pastor?

In my denomination, that's what the series of tests after seminary tells the other teachers/pastors during licensing is for. They weed out the less-thans like me, (ones who should not teach), and they weed out the ones who never understood God and the Bible to teach it. We rarely have pastors be fired. And when they are, it's usually because they lied during licensure.

We start with the assumption a pastor knows what he's doing, because they train him to know that. Sure beats a brilliant engineer turned pastor because he's a nice guy. (Ends up he didn't like to study the Bible, prepare for a sermon, and had to learn how to study before teaching how to study, but he never used it again, because he hated studying and liked winging sermons. He is a nice guy though.)

Talking about Paul in regards to the Ministry, says his labouring is by the grace of God that was in him. No glory for the old self which he had been educated under the feet of Gamaliel. Seminary is good yet it's not a guarantee to have a successful ministry.

1 Coritnhiams 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yeh I lived under that one for a long time.
Truly shocking that leaders teach such trash along with other stuff.

I'd gladly pay them to keep thier mouths shut.

Hey, I was wondering where that extra $ came from in my bank account. Do you know my account # ?

 

[joefizz]

What pastors need is an ANOINTING. Instead we have people who go into the pastorate on mere knowledge. And not necessarily knowledge of God, but what they were taught. Which as you apparently now know can be two very different things. We think just because someone is a good speaker and very well trained and knowledgeable in the particular things he was taught and handles those teachings well that he must be sent of God. Not true at all. He's just good at what he knows, not good at knowing the truth.

It's all about the anointing. The church is full of educated pastors, but little anointing. I've only met 3 or 4 pastors that I sensed were anointed by God to be pastors. The rest were really no different than the sheep but had spent lots of money to be a leader in the church.

As far as I can tell at this point, an anointing is discerned by the ability of a person to know and teach the Bible with personal insights and inspirations that come from God and were not simply taught to him and told this is the truth, teach it. Just being good at parroting what you were taught is hardly the mark of a true pastor sent and anointed by God. A school teacher can do that. It's a skill and a talent to be able to teach, but by itself it's hardly what proves a person has been called to be a pastor/teacher. I think insightful and inspirational revelation is the mark of the true pastor.

To serve well and to be doubly honored is to be anointed. God's people will support such a man. You don't have to twist and manipulate the flock to support such a man.

Yep anyone can parrot or memorize things but God always seeks,"humbleness" "truth" and "devoutness" in whom serves him not a piece of paper declaring one's brilliance as according to people,or some great sounding words that "people like hearing" anyone whom serves God is to do their utmost to not simply "teach" but be able to stand by his word,and "care" for those an individual teaches as well as "learn" themselves as they teach.
And depleted has a point too many people "tell people things" as if they have found fault in someone when they themselves are fault,and like dressing up scripture to their liking such as the speaking in tongues doctrine,people "force feed" that plenty and just "think that's what God wants" whether educated or not "God" must be included in preaching,and teaching of his word,not "imaginings of the heart" otherwise it's rubbish one is teaching or preaching.

 

[joefizz]

As For the topic of "Pastor pay" I believe that a pastor should be payed what God desires for him to have,because God always"gives the increase" or "provides for his sheep" just in like manner as Jesus told the disciples for "following him" that they were "receiving blessings" if one is called to be a pastor then he ought not take worry of what "money" he "can get from people for preaching" he ought to "do as God asks of him" for one should think "whom can provide better than God"?"whom will not forsake you?
For if a pastor preaches all upon the intention to "get payed" then it doesn't matter how many people he "brings into a church" with his preaching,to choose "people" instead of "God" to serve is to have "nothing".

 

[maxwel]

What pastors need is an ANOINTING. Instead we have people who go into the pastorate on mere knowledge. And not necessarily knowledge of God, but what they were taught. Which as you apparently now know can be two very different things. We think just because someone is a good speaker and very well trained and knowledgeable in the particular things he was taught and handles those teachings well that he must be sent of God. Not true at all. He's just good at what he knows, not good at knowing the truth.

It's all about the anointing. The church is full of educated pastors, but little anointing. I've only met 3 or 4 pastors that I sensed were anointed by God to be pastors. The rest were really no different than the sheep but had spent lots of money to be a leader in the church.

As far as I can tell at this point, an anointing is discerned by the ability of a person to know and teach the Bible with personal insights and inspirations that come from God and were not simply taught to him and told this is the truth, teach it. Just being good at parroting what you were taught is hardly the mark of a true pastor sent and anointed by God. A school teacher can do that. It's a skill and a talent to be able to teach, but by itself it's hardly what proves a person has been called to be a pastor/teacher. I think insightful and inspirational revelation is the mark of the true pastor.

To serve well and to be doubly honored is to be anointed. God's people will support such a man. You don't have to twist and manipulate the flock to support such a man.

This sounds nice, but...
if we look more closely it's just a post of doctrinal OPINIONS without scripture.
Maybe we should rely on something stronger than opinions to buttress our doctrinal beliefs.


Here are some of the operative phrases - each is a subjective opinion statement derived from "I", not derived from scripture:
"I've only met"
"that I sensed"
"As far as I can tell"
"I think"

Then we wrap up this opinion piece with a definition of "annointed", and this definition is pulled straight out of thin air, but it's stated propositionally as an absolute fact:
"To serve well and to be doubly honored is to be anointed."
Not only is there no scripture given to support it, but I'm pretty sure THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE TO SUPPORT IT.


If we're going to make propositional truth claims, and offer definitions as absolute facts...
I think we need to back them up with scripture, and not pull them out of thin air.



Conclusion:

* If the overall point is just an inspirational message that a pastor should be deeper than just any random guy who can recite a few Bible verse, I'm sure we'd all agree.

*But that isn't what happens in the post; the post goes around in circles making all kinds of doctrinal claims... that's a problem.

 

[renewed_hope]

I'm from a denomination when pastors don't have secular jobs. Pastoring is their job. And since, by very nature, pastoring isn't a secular job, then how do you figure out what they're paid by secular jobs?

I grew up with that same concept. Where I come from, the pastor and his family needed to be available ALL the time which would take time away from each other in order to help someone else. His wife was expected to take care of all the domestics with raising and rearing the children and being in the leadership ministry herself. Neither one of these people could not hold down a 9 to 5 job because the church family took priority. With all of that said it is common for the pastors home whether it be rent or a mortgage is taken care of by the church as an asset (for taxes) and enough money to cover anything the family needs to survive as his income. It's sad how people feel like it's their responsibility to tell someone how to spend their money. I don't know about the rest of you, but I wouldn't dare tell my neighbor how to spend his lol

 

[Ralph-]

This sounds nice, but...
if we look more closely it's just a post of doctrinal OPINIONS without scripture.
Maybe we should rely on something stronger than opinions to buttress our doctrinal beliefs.


Here are some of the operative phrases - each is a subjective opinion statement derived from "I", not derived from scripture:
"I've only met"
"that I sensed"
"As far as I can tell"
"I think"

Then we wrap up this opinion piece with a definition of "annointed", and this definition is pulled straight out of thin air, but it's stated propositionally as an absolute fact:
"To serve well and to be doubly honored is to be anointed."
Not only is there no scripture given to support it, but I'm pretty sure THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE TO SUPPORT IT.


If we're going to make propositional truth claims, and offer definitions as absolute facts...
I think we need to back them up with scripture, and not pull them out of thin air.



Conclusion:

* If the overall point is just an inspirational message that a pastor should be deeper than just any random guy who can recite a few Bible verse, I'm sure we'd all agree.

*But that isn't what happens in the post; the post goes around in circles making all kinds of doctrinal claims... that's a problem.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I thought I was being gracious by purposely using phrases like 'I think'. If you don't, this group over here thinks you're being an arrogant know it all. If you do, you get accused of not having any scriptural support. Who wants to pastor that kind of flock? Only an anointing from God could cause a person to bear up under that kind of crap.

 

[plainguy]

I'd just give em' the same salary that we use in egg or potato salad ... unless they're allergic or sumpin'

 

[Depleted]

Praise the LORD you are here and did not give up and lose sight of HIM! It is so easy to do as Israel and fall! We are not to look even to the most learned, but to him who is faithful and just to finish the work. Merry Christmas!

What? But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
(Mat 23:11 KJV)

Servant here is diakonos (deacon). Here is an excerpt from "Thayer's Greek to English Lexicon unabridged"

G1249
διάκονος, διακονου, ὁ, ἡ (of uncertain origin, but by no means, as was formerly thought, compounded of διά and κόνις, so as to mean, properly, 'raising dust by hastening'; cf. ἐγκόνειν; for the alpha in the preposition διά is short, in διάκονος, long. Alexander Buttmann (1873) Lexil. i., p. 218ff (English translation, p. 231f) thinks it is derived from the obsolete διάκω equivalent to διήκω (allied with διώκω; cf. Vanicek, p. 363)); one who executes the commands of another, especially of a master; a sergeant, attendant, minister;
1. universally: of the servant of a king, Mat_22:13; with the genitive of the person served, Mat_20:26; Mat_23:11; Mar_9:35; Mar_10:43 (in which passage it is used figuratively of those who advance others' interests even at the sacrifice of their own); τῆς ἐκκλησίας, of one who does what promotes the welfare and prosperity of the church, Col_1:25; διάκονοι τοῦ Θεοῦ, those through whom God carries on his administration on earth, as magistrates, Rom_13:4; teachers of the Christian religion, 1Co_3:5; 2Co_6:4; 1Th_3:2 R T Tr WH text L marginal reading; the same are called διάκονοι (τοῦ) Χριστοῦ, 2Co_11:23; Col_1:7; 1Ti_4:6; ἐν κυρίῳ, in the cause of the Lord, Col_4:7; (Eph_6:21); ὁ διάκονος μου, my follower, Joh_12:26; τοῦ Σατανᾶ, whom Satan uses as a servant, 2Co_11:15; (ἁμαρτίας, Gal_2:17); διάκονος περιτομῆς (abstract for concrete), of Christ, who labored for the salvation of the circumcised, i. e. the Jews, Rom_15:8; with the genitive of the thing to which service is rendered, i. e. to which one is devoted: καινῆς διαθήκης, 2Co_3:6; τοῦ εὐαγγελίου, Eph_3:7; Col_1:23; δικαιοσύνης, 2Co_11:15.
2. a deacon, one who, by virtue of the office assigned him by the church, cares for the poor and has charge of and distributes the money collected for their use (cf. BB. DD., Dict. of Christ. Antiq., Schaff-Herzog under the word ; Lightfoot's Commentary on Philippians, dissert. i. § i.; Julius Muller, Dogmatische Abhandlungen, p. 560ff): Php_1:1; 1Ti_3:8; 1Ti_3:12, cf. Act_6:3 ff; ἡ διάκονος, a deaconess (ministra, Pliny, epistles 10, 97), a woman to whom the care of either poor or sick women was entrusted, Rom_16:1 (cf. Dictionaries as above, under the word ; Lightfoot as above, p. 191; B. D. under the word ).....

In reference to a Deacon. It is a high calling.

Peter having learned a lesson gives them honorable mention right beside Bishops!

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christaul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
(Php 1:1 KJV)

Paul's instruction confers with Peter's honorable mention

Likewise ( in same manner) must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
(1Ti 3:8-13 KJV)

Sadly the high calling of Deacon to which Peter gave honorable mention; though Ordained by GOD came through the ill of self importance. Blinded by what we see to be our mission; not seeing the full scope of it!

Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables. (Not so LORD! You shall never wash my feet. But HE saith unto them he that is greatest shall be Diaconus to all. And no greater Love can one show but to lay down their life for the brethren!

​

Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
(Act 6:2,3 KJV)

Ahhh the prerequisite!

Men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom!

So Stephen full of wisdom and the Holy Ghost, he whose name means Crown. Chosen to serve tables, became the first Martyr while evangelizing to the learned of Israel.

Yes indeed! Simon Peter, the hearing stone learned a lesson as did the rest of the Twelve!
​

And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
(Act 7:56-60 KJV)

Not sure what you're saying here, but I do, truly, admire deacons. I do think it is a high calling and a wonderful calling. Common sense is definitely required for being a deacon. An education isn't. I don't have to get all of Hebrews perfectly, or all of Ecclesiastes perfectly, to know someone needs a place to sleep tonight and a nice hot meal.