"The Lord will miraculously heal."

[Depleted]

Those were very harsh days. I really don't think we want to return to them.

The problem with unfulfilled expectations of healing is that they are man driven and not God led.

When we hurt or a loved one hurts we want God to heal and remove the suffering. It's only natural to seek comfort and healing.

We must not allow our will to separate us from Gods will. If we believe scripture we must believe that God heals and God allows us to suffer for our good and for His glory.

Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

If we have great suffering in this world will we not expect greater rejoicing in the next?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I know someone who was raped at 18 months old by his cousins. His cousins were raped by their family. Their family was raped by their family. The 18 month old grew to be 14 and was then raped by his stepfather, who was part of that family of pedophiles. After that the 14 year old tried to, or did, (some fought back, so he couldn't) rape his younger siblings. Meanwhile, his other brother was getting "affection" from his mother in bed.

God broke the family cycle. But, frankly, if someone would have done what GOD'S Law in "those harsh days" -- kill the offender -- I would not know an entire family of sexually abused children now grown up. And, yeah, they would have been born since it was the stepfather's family, and then their mother didn't start her creepiness until she married into that family.

Likewise, if the Law remained we wouldn't have a whole lot of false teaching coming down in the name of Christ, when it has absolutely nothing to do with Christ! People would not be wrecked because some scammer tells them, "God will miraculously heal your loved one."

 

[Depleted]

Death and healing are not opposites. Indeed, death is the ultimate healing. This body changes from corruptible to its eternal prime! Any healing you receive on this side is temporary - you're going to go on to die of something else anyway. But the healing we receive as we pass to the other side - that is complete and eternal! So no, praying for healing is not inconsistent with dying.

If only that were my question. That wasn't even remotely related to my question.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Pentecost is a Jewish feast. Shavuot the feast of the Latter first fruits.

Pentecost did not originate in Acts 1.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

uh

I was referring to the denom

not the feasts

I didn't name the denom either

 

[Depleted]

So, I'm going with the usual answer is to twist it around so it kind of sort of looks like what it really wasn't, and most people just go with "I never said God would heal your loved one. How could you get what I said so wrong?"

To be clear. I KNOW God heals. I KNOW God does the miraculous. This was never about God. This was about YOU! What do YOU do if...?

 

[BillG]

Thank you. Just when I was beginning to think very few got my question in the first place.

(Has anyone else noticed most of this thread is about miracles? My question is about when God does not provide the miracle after someone promised he would.)

Then such people are walking in the flesh and not the spirit.
If one declares "You shall be healed" and it does not happen then such people should be held to account.
I have prayed for healing many a time but not with s declaration they you will be healed.
I have prayed for healing because I still believe God does still heal today.
I only pray when feel led to and in sense to me, if you don't ask you don't get.
And when you ask God responds according to his will and knowing what is best for his children.

There were a few they I prayed for and were healed. Most of them were healed when Giod have me a word of knowledge at the same time. They were basically unrepentant sin.

One person felt unwell and as I prayed in felt God say tell him to go to hospital. Turns out if he had waited till the end of the day he wouldn't have made it till then.

None of the above is miraculous as we would like it be.

Lots in prayed for were not healed. Will never understand why.

But I'm sure it does happen that way.

Anyway as I said anyone who declares healing will happen and it does not should be held accountable, even more so when they say to the person left behind "It's cause you lacked faith"

 

[notuptome]

I know someone who was raped at 18 months old by his cousins. His cousins were raped by their family. Their family was raped by their family. The 18 month old grew to be 14 and was then raped by his stepfather, who was part of that family of pedophiles. After that the 14 year old tried to, or did, (some fought back, so he couldn't) rape his younger siblings. Meanwhile, his other brother was getting "affection" from his mother in bed.

God broke the family cycle. But, frankly, if someone would have done what GOD'S Law in "those harsh days" -- kill the offender -- I would not know an entire family of sexually abused children now grown up. And, yeah, they would have been born since it was the stepfather's family, and then their mother didn't start her creepiness until she married into that family.

Likewise, if the Law remained we wouldn't have a whole lot of false teaching coming down in the name of Christ, when it has absolutely nothing to do with Christ! People would not be wrecked because some scammer tells them, "God will miraculously heal your loved one."

Angela was referring to false prophets not pedophiles. So I'm not making the connection that you seem to have made. Punishment according to the law is appropriate for pedophiles and rapists. We do not stone false prophets these days or there would be a shortage of stones.

Sin is hideous in all it's forms. Only Gods mercy keeps sin in restraint or the evil one would murder everyone.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[hardsell]

Not my question. Have you ever told someone that the Lord told you they would be healed, or their loved one would be healed, and then the person wasn't healed or the loved one died? AND, if you have, what did you do afterward?

Bluntly said and not to hurt you, If this happened then you were not hearing from God and you would need to repent for saying something that was in your flesh and not by the Spirit to the family, and whoever heard it. You would need to then repent to God and ask the Holy Spirit to show you why and where you missed it.


Isaiah 55:11
[SUP]11 [/SUP]So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth;
It will not return to Me empty,
Without accomplishing what I desire,
And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.

If a word of knowledge is from God it will not return empty or void to God and it will prosper that which the word was given to.

Anything else is flesh.

 

[Depleted]

Angela was referring to false prophets not pedophiles. So I'm not making the connection that you seem to have made. Punishment according to the law is appropriate for pedophiles and rapists. We do not stone false prophets these days or there would be a shortage of stones.

Sin is hideous in all it's forms. Only Gods mercy keeps sin in restraint or the evil one would murder everyone.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Do you know what the punishment of false teachers and pedophiles had in common in God's Law? Death!

Do you know what America's law is for false teacher? The First Amendment.

Do you know what America's law is for pedophiles? 11 years. And that's way up from what it was when that family was children.

Appropriate? God's Law is appropriate. We're merely stuck with American law.

 

[Depleted]

Bluntly said and not to hurt you, If this happened then you were not hearing from God and you would need to repent for saying something that was in your flesh and not by the Spirit to the family, and whoever heard it. You would need to then repent to God and ask the Holy Spirit to show you why and where you missed it.


Isaiah 55:11
[SUP]11 [/SUP]So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth;
It will not return to Me empty,
Without accomplishing what I desire,
And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.

If a word of knowledge is from God it will not return empty or void to God and it will prosper that which the word was given to.

Anything else is flesh.

And nothing is owed to the ones you said this to? (You, in general sense, like you used it to me.)

 

[notuptome]

Do you know what the punishment of false teachers and pedophiles had in common in God's Law? Death!

Do you know what America's law is for false teacher? The First Amendment.

Do you know what America's law is for pedophiles? 11 years. And that's way up from what it was when that family was children.

Appropriate? God's Law is appropriate. We're merely stuck with American law.

Where sin abounds grace doth much more abound.

You get the courts to try them and execute them and I will not stand in your way. If the false prophets are pedophiles as in the catholic church then execute them twice.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[hardsell]

And nothing is owed to the ones you said this to? (You, in general sense, like you used it to me.)

I hope I am understanding you correctly when I answer this, if not break it down for me. The only thing you owe them is your apology and whether they took/take it or not is not for you to worry about. You repented tot hem and asked for their forgiveness. If they fail/failed to receive this from you, there is nothing left for you to do. The onus would be on them to forgive you, but you did the only thing that was required.

 

[Waggles]

I suspect you know a lot more about WoF than you realize, however, this isn't that topic. I want to know if you ever told someone God would heal them, only to learn God did not heal them. And, if you did, then what? Because they're either still sick, or their loved one is dead, and they could use comfort. Do you ask for forgiveness after lying about what God would do for them? Do you ask for their forgiveness too? Do you comfort them? Do you try to help them?

Or do you just do what you did here and blame it on them because
"Faith? Understanding of who we are in Christ Jesus?
Unrepentant sins? Wrong attitude?"

I and my fellow church members never declare that God will or must heal
someone because of our faith.
We do not command Jesus to do anything because of our own efforts or
doctrine.
We offer to pray for people with the hope that it is the will of God to
honour our prayers and faith and bless a person in need.

If a person does not get a healing instantly or is raised up miraculously
we do not blame the person in need; but rather we examine ourselves
on issues of faith, or our attitude or what might be lacking in myself.
It is never the fault of a person in need.

I remember when a woman, named Pat, was gravely ill and the whole church
was praying for her healing and recovery.
I fasted and prayed for her.
On the third day of prayer, while praying in tongues, I had a vision travelling
through of a most magnificent baroque style palace.
I knew then and there that Pat had died in the Lord. Jesus revealed this to me
(and I presume others) by giving a vision of his promise to us ...

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you.
I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:2

Later on the following Sunday God spoke to his church through the gift of
prophecy and said (I'm paraphrasing here):
that we need not overly grieve or get despondent about the death of our loved
ones for they are asleep in Christ Jesus.
They have their salvation and are no longer tempted, nor suffer any more tribulations
and trials of faith, but are at peace.
They shall rise up at the last trumpet and be forever with their Lord and Saviour.

No one ever blamed Pat, or her husband Henry, for any lack of faith or for being
at fault in some way.
We would all have desired for Pat to be raised up miraculously - as a testimony
to our doctrine and faith. Very reassuring for us.
But our lives are in the hands of God and we all need to be righteous in faith
and our daily living ready to meet our Lord at any time.

Again recently two young men from another Assembly on the other side of
Adelaide were killed outright in a car crash.
People were in a state of shock. How could God possibly allow this?
People wobbled in their faith and commitment and sought answers.

The answer is like the vows of a traditional wedding -
for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, for better for worse, etc...
God does not promise us a bed of roses and an easy way of contentment
with no challenges nor trials and no tribulations.

At best we hope and pray, and seek the Lord.
And we rejoice in the hope and the promise that those who do depart in the
faith have their salvation in Christ Jesus our God and Redeemer.

 

[Waggles]

I want to know if you ever told someone God would heal them, only to learn God did not heal them. And, if you did, then what? Because they're either still sick, or their loved one is dead, and they could use comfort. Do you ask for forgiveness after lying about what God would do for them? Do you ask for their forgiveness too? Do you comfort them? Do you try to help them?

NO
I have never told any one in or outside the church that God would heal them.
It is not for me to direct God on how he must respond or what he must do.

I do not need to ask for forgiveness as I do not lie to people about this.
Comfort is provided by the indwelling Holy Spirit who will soothe the excess
sorrow and pain for those suffering loss.

Yes we help one another. We care for one another.
I still visit Henry and have fellowship with him as another widower.
We have quite a few widows and widowers in our fellowship.
People are going to die and pass on before our Lord returns to claim
his own.

I do not know what goes on in other churches.
But from what I can see on youtube and on the various Foxtel
Christian TV channels I shudder at arrogance and showbiz of
what passes for Christianity today.
We are nothing like that fraud Benny Hinn and his ilk.

We simply believe the full gospel as one can read in Acts and the epistles
for a Spirit-filled church that has gifts of the Holy Spirit and has testimonies
to healings and miracles a plenty.
All done decently and in order.

I offer to pray for people because of my faith with hope.
Nothing more.
Sometimes my prayers are answered and sometimes not.
I meditate on this and seek to examine myself not the person
who needed prayer.

 

[Angela53510]

Thank you. Just when I was beginning to think very few got my question in the first place.

(Has anyone else noticed most of this thread is about miracles? My question is about when God does not provide the miracle after someone promised he would.)

I thought I might try and simplify again what I think you are asking! Really, I thought it was plain and clear in your OP and subsequent posts, but I guess there are some reading comprehension issues in the forum, to say nothing of people who really do NOT care what the OP was, and will use any opportunity to push their agenda.


1. If you pronounce that God has healed a sick person, in the name of Jesus, and they are not healed, then what?

2. If the person dies, and you foretold in the name of Jesus that they would rise up from their sickbed, what then?

3. What do we do with these people running around and claiming ”God told me to pray for you to be healed” and the poor sick person is not healed? In fact, they die of their sickness?

 

[Angela53510]

Which brings me to this next post, which is basically, Word Faith doctrine, that you owe them nothing!

I hope I am understanding you correctly when I answer this, if not break it down for me. The only thing you owe them is your apology and whether they took/take it or not is not for you to worry about. You repented tot hem and asked for their forgiveness. If they fail/failed to receive this from you, there is nothing left for you to do. The onus would be on them to forgive you, but you did the only thing that was required.

In the Old Testament, (and I will post again below) someone who said “Thus saith the Lord” and it did not come to pass, was not slapped on the wrist and told to apologize. Nor was it on the dead person to accept that forgiveness. (Using the scenerio the Lynn brought up in the OP, which is the topic of this thread - someone was prayed for, told they were healed, and yet they died!)

The point being is that happens to people who are sick, like me, who are prayed for and pronounced healed and then, when I was NOT healed, it was my fault - not enough faith, needed more magic incantations, visitations from wingless angels, etc, etc.

The interesting thing that happened in my case was that the woman who told me it was my fault I was not healed by her prayers got breast cancer, refused medical treatment (because she was healed!) and died within the year. I don’t think God sent that as a punishment, really, it was her fault for refusing medical treatment for an illness which can be helped by modern medicine. (My SIL is going on 5 years cancer free, which they say is an important milestone in the cancer not recurring.

So was my friend able to apologize to herself? Not likely! What about Kenneth Copeland Ministries, where she was an ordained minister? They prayed and declared her healed, and she was not. Should they they apologize?

I THINK NOT!!! They should be shut down for being false prophets, certainly in the case of my friend, and probably the thousands of others pronounced healed who were not. At all costs, THE SICK SHOULD NEVER BE BLAMED FOR THEIR LACK OF FAITH!!

The other Word Faith friend who pronounced me healed, also almost died, but got medical help, when a non-Word Faith person intervened and took him to the hospital. Suprisingly, it took him a long time to admit he had prophesied incorrectly, on me, himself and others. he still quotes Isa. 53:5d out of context, but acknowledged God made doctors.

Oh Lynn, don’t get me started on WoF. And the interesting thing is I did get back on my feet, years later, when I got on better meds. Now, I am not healed, but at least I am functioning and able to do things for God.

Oh, before I close, let me also mention natural healers, who have even written me on this site, telling me if I take quack nostrum this or that, change my diet to this or that, my body will heal itself, and I will be well. Which shows no understanding of the mechanism for the type of Rheumatoid Arthritis. I have. I don’t think you can find someone who eats better than I do, and have since I was 17, 27 years before RA. No sugar, gluten free, and totally organic, vegetarian, grew a lot of my own food, make everything from scratch, and still do! So, no, God did not tell you to write me and tell me to get on the Paddison diet and I would be well. At a cost, of course! (Why do these quack nostrums and healing diets seem to cost so much??)

Sorry for wandering far from the topic of the OP again. Here are those verses I promised you. Please read the bolded words, that is the crux of the issue.

”But if any prophet presumes to speak anything in my name that I have not authorized him to speak, or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 Now if you say to yourselves, ‘How can we tell that a message is not from the Lord?’— 22 whenever a prophet speaks in my name and the prediction is not fulfilled, then I have not spoken it; the prophet has presumed to speak it, so you need not fear him.”

I am not saying God does not heal, when it is his will. But pronouncements of healing from God, which do not come to pass define what a false prophet is!

 

[preacher4truth]

NO
I have never told any one in or outside the church that God would heal them.
It is not for me to direct God on how he must respond or what he must do.

Cool. So then the healing is not dependent upon the person's faith, but instead is according to God's will?

 

[preacher4truth]

Someone told me that about my mother. She died. I was sent back to Dad's house, so never got to ask those people, (there was more than one), what he meant by that.

I've seen a few people say that to people praying for their loved ones on this site. One of those people that were supposedly going to be miraculously healed died on Christmas Eve.

For those who say that, what do you mean? And WHERE do you go when the person you are sure God will heal dies? The best response I've ever seen out of people who give the word-of-faith that someone sick will be healed, but then dies, was "I'm sorry for your loss. He's in a better place now."

When you love someone deeply, you want to hear God will heal them. So, if someone tells you with great authority, that God WILL heal your love one, you really, really count on that.

Where are you after the person dies? What do you say to that person? Since the best I ever saw was very much like, "Oh well, I'm sorry for your loss," how much faith did you have in the first place? And why did you pass off a lie about God as if it was no big thing?

Is there remorse? Do you even care? Or was that no more significant to you than saying Gesundheit after someone sneezes?

Have you ever said it to a close relative, or someone you work with each day? Someone you will have to see and interact with day after day when you find out your mighty word-of-faith was nothing more than a lie? Or do you only reserve it for people you don't know, so you don't have to face your fault? What happens afterward when you were wrong? Because the afterward is when that person you lied to needs comfort too.

A friend of mine has just lost her husband after being told, more than once, on this site that the Lord would heal him. (He had Stage Four cancer in several organs then.) Another friend is facing Stage Three stomach cancer with her father. Whether the "The Lord will miraculously heal" was something glib, or something deep on your heart when you say it, I really want to know where are you when the person dies? What happened to your great consult -- your great Word of Faith? And what do you do now?

This also goes for people who are sure God will heal someone simply because you assuredly said he would, even for a headache or a cold. After all, you too are sure you can choose God's decision by your great faith, so what happens when God chose not to do the miracle you, in great faith, were sure he would?

Whomever told someone else God would heal another person needs to take a long look at Scripture, get under some sound preaching, teaching and instruction. That right there tells me they have no clue as to what the Gospel is, nor is there much understanding of the nature and character of God. Unreal.

[video=youtube;cJHpGmjGX-g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJHpGmjGX-g[/video]

 

[MattforJesus]

I think healing will come depending on our spiritual walk with God,whether it draws us closer to God,or away from Him.

Paul was given a thorn in the flesh to keep him humble,so he would not get exalted above measure for the abundance of revelations God showed him,for if he would of exalted himself then God could not use him like He would want to use him,for God resists the proud but gives grace unto the humble.

Paul asked God three times for it to be taken away,and the answer was no,My grace is sufficient for you,so Paul said he will glory in his infirmities,for when he is weak then he is strong,for the power of Christ rests on him.

What if someone were in a wheelchair,but had trouble with thoughts of the opposite sex,and gets healed,and then is out at the bar,and chasing women,his healing was not good in his spiritual walk with God.

Some people might not get healed if it is going to cause their spiritual walk with God to decline.

Better to have an ailment and closer to God depending on Him,than to have no ailment,in great health,and wavering in your walk with God,and not depending on Him as much.

Like God said concerning now,they say they are rich,and increased with goods,and say they have need of nothing,but do not know that they are in bad shape,for they do not depend on God like they should.

Better to be poor and be closer to God depending on Him,than to be rich and wavering in your walk with God,and not depending on Him as much,and also it neglects the poor and needy,which then their faith is dead.

We are not to trust in riches,but in God.

Also Jesus said when He comes back will He find faith,which a lot of people lack faith,which can come by way of loving money,and material things,wants,and having sin in their life,which love does not think an evil thought,and does not sin by the Spirit,and is not arrogant,and not selfish,and not unkind,and only goes by their needs,and helps the poor and needy.

And there will be a lot of hypocrites at the end time,so there will not be a whole lot of healings,and the prayers of a righteous person avails much,not the prayers of a hypocrite.

 

[Waggles]

About 20 years ago just after I was baptized in water and the Holy Spirit
and spoke in tongues - I naively assumed that all Pentecostal churches were
equal and would all be subject to the scriptures like our church is.
What a shock I got.
I went to another church that had advertised in the local paper that a famous
evangelist preacher was giving the talk.
So I naively went along expecting the same as what I had just experienced for one
week in The Revival Fellowship.
I discovered what others call a charismatic church were Pentecostal doctrine and worship
is completely out of order.
It was an eye opener.

But I digress.
I remember this famous evangelist preacher speaking to those in the prayer
line " In the name of Jesus I command this cancer to come out of you."
I was a babe in Christ, a complete Christian novice, but even then I thought
to myself, who is this guy to demand that Jesus obeys his commands?

Not all churches are equal.

 

[Depleted]

I hope I am understanding you correctly when I answer this, if not break it down for me. The only thing you owe them is your apology and whether they took/take it or not is not for you to worry about. You repented tot hem and asked for their forgiveness. If they fail/failed to receive this from you, there is nothing left for you to do. The onus would be on them to forgive you, but you did the only thing that was required.

So if I cause someone deep hurt, deep sorrow, and deep anger toward God because I was stupid enough to say God told me he would heal their loved one, and that loved one died, I ask for forgiveness and then wash my hands of that person?

Doesn't sound like God's will to me either.