Inspiration of Scriptures

[Dino246]

My "Reply with Quote" isn't working, but I will state confidently that "the refutation has also been refuted" is the most ridiculous and arrogant piece of hogwash I've seen all year. You didn't refute anything! All you did was explain the term "moved".

You have done absolutely nothing to justify your assertion that asking questions where God hasn't provided answers is "not of God". Try again.

 

[Nehemiah6]

You have done absolutely nothing to justify your assertion that asking questions where God hasn't provided answers is "not of God". Try again.

The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law. (Deut 29:29).

 

[fredoheaven]

Then the KJV is corrupted. You really should think through your position before posting.

You have not addressed Trofimus' question: at Jesus' baptism, did the Father say, "Thou art My beloved Son" or "This is My beloved Son"?

Here is my take:

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


Mark 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.

10And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

11And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


[FONT=&quot]Matthew is reporting to what had happened during Jesus baptism.What has been written is that Jesus had already been baptized. Whereas, Mark isstressing the actual happenings of Jesus baptism as the Holy Spirit leads him.

As I understand, the comparison of Matthew and Mark has nothing to do with the inspirationof the Bible. For inspiration simply means what the Holy Spirit says must bewritten. The comparison actually concerns the infallibility of thescriptures. This means there were no errors to what the Holy Spirit gave toboth writers.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]God bless[/FONT]

 

[MarcR]

If they contain errors, small or great, then they are corrupted. Who are we to say an error is small or insignificant?

The problem with your approach is that the KJV contains both errors in translation and errors in fact. Therefore either we need to change your standard of corruption or we don't have an uncorrupted Bible.

 

[mcubed]

The Bible says 2 Tim.3:16 [FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]All Scripture is G-d-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,[/FONT]

[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It either is or it's not..... But if it's not why believe in some guy died on a cross rose from the dead believe and him get to got to heaven to be with some god.... G-d came in human form, Y-shua. Died on the cross rose from the dead and is coming back again. [/FONT]

How ridiculous does that sound!!

It's EITHER ALL TRUE OR NON OF THE 66 BOOKS ARE TRUE! THERE IS NO PICKING AND CHOOSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[oldethennew]

you make a good argument, but, for those of us who have NO DOUBT about being
'called-chosen-elected', we have NO doubts about our Heavenly Father's Will...

 

[joaniemarie]

That's correct! I believe every word of the Bible.

Anyone can read the different versions of the Bible and come up with a million different interpretations. But how amazing is it that WE believers have not only the written word from the old letters to the churches that were put in book form we call today the Bible... We believers were given the Holy Spirit at the time of our salvation. He teaches us how to rightly divide the word of truth.

We are not left to our own limitations in this matter. We have God the Holy Spirit to lead us teach us and guide us into ALL TRUTH. John 16:13 Jesus promised this to us...

[SUP]13 [/SUP]But when He, the Spirit of Truth (the Truth-giving Spirit) comes, He will guide you into all the Truth (the whole, full Truth). For He will not speak His own message [on His own authority]; but He will tell whatever He hears [from the Father; He will give the message that has been given to Him], and He will announce and declare to you the things that are to come [that will happen in the future].


So even if there are some versions of the Bible that are less than "stellar" we have the Holy Spirit and we have other versions of the basic letters to the churches so we can find out by the Holy Spirit abiding in us which meaning in any given verse is applicable.

I prefer to use the NAS and the KJV and the Amplified at this particular time in life. I can read different commentaries and find out what some Christians hold to and I can make up my own mind by the other truths the Holy Spirit has shown me about Jesus. This is really amazing that we can do this and not have to be scholars. The Holy Spirit reveals truth to us.

I have often been joyfully surprised at how many powerful educated people who have lots of Bible knowledge can be swept aside when the truth of the Spirit of God has already shown something to me about Jesus and His love. There are principles about Jesus and His deity that cannot be refuted and we each must know what they are.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Every Scripture is God-breathed (given by His inspiration) and profitable for instruction, for reproof and conviction of sin, for correction of error and discipline in obedience, [and] for training in righteousness (in holy living, in conformity to God’s will in thought, purpose, and action),
[SUP]17 [/SUP]So that the man of God may be complete and proficient, well fitted and thoroughly equipped for every good work.


But in all this we have to take the time to read and submit to the teaching and guidance of the Holy Spirit by faith. He was left here by Jesus to do this job and He is willing and able to do it if we make ourselves available to learn. If we don't., we will be tossed around by every wind of doctrine out there in the world by evil men.

 

[Dino246]

The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law. (Deut 29:29).

There are certainly things that God has truly hidden, such as what the seven thunders spoke. There are also things which are not overt, but which are not hidden either. Simply defining the investigation of things not actually hidden as "not of God" means that even your personal efforts to better understand the Scriptures are "not of God" because you are attempting to understand things which are hidden from you.

Do you see why I take such issue with your assertion?

 

[John146]

The problem with your approach is that the KJV contains both errors in translation and errors in fact. Therefore either we need to change your standard of corruption or we don't have an uncorrupted Bible.

There has not one error ever to be found in the KJV that cannot be refuted. Fact!

 

[Dino246]

There has not one error ever to be found in the KJV that cannot be refuted. Fact!

"Refuted"... to whose satisfaction?

 

[John146]

"Refuted"... to whose satisfaction?

That's the million dollar question. To the skeptic, no answer will be good enough.

 

[Dino246]

That's the million dollar question. To the skeptic, no answer will be good enough.

And to the brainwashed, any answer will suffice.

Do you want to have a real discussion or do you want to trade epithets?

 

[MarcR]

There has not one error ever to be found in the KJV that cannot be refuted. Fact!

REFUTE THIS IF YOU CAN!

Here is an excerpt from my commentary:

3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
3 It seemed good to me also, having accurately followed after all things from above, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

having NOT having had This is the perfect active participle NOT the pluperfect!
diligently (or accurately) NOT perfect this is the adverb ἀκριβῶς NOT the adjective τέλειον.
pursued (or followed) NOT understanding this is the verb παρηκολουθηκότι NOT the noun συνέσει.
all things NOT of all things this is the dative NOT the genitive case.
above NOT the very first this is ἄνωθεν not ἀρχῇ.

The accuracy of most of this translation demonstrates that the translators had better scholarship than one would deduce from their rendering of this verse. I believe that this is an example of allowing one’s theology to drive translation. One should rather translate the text as strictly as possible; and allow the unaltered text to drive one’s theology.

Theophilus Friend of God. There is some scholarly disagreement whether the name is intended to apply to all believers, or to an individual. In my opinion the title ‘most excellent’ suggests an individual; but, the content is certainly applicable to and pertinent to all believers.


Gen 5:32


....32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
32 And Noah was five hundred and two years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.


Ge 1:27-31 Adam created AM 1 [AM = Anno Mundi = Age of Earth from creation]
Ge 5:3 Adam age 130 when Seth born AM 130
Ge 5:6 Seth age 105 when Enos born AM 235
Ge 5:9 Enos age 90 when Cainan born AM 325
Ge 5:12 Cainan age 70 when Mahalaleel born AM 395
Ge 5:15 Mahalaleel age 65 when Jared born AM 460
Ge 5:18 Jared age 162 when Enoch born AM 622
Ge 5:21 Enoch age 65 when Methuselah born AM 687
Ge 5:25 Methuselah age 187 when Lamech born AM 874
Ge 5:28 Lamech age 182 when Noah born AM 1056
Ge 7:11 Noah age 600 at onset of flood AM 1656
Ge 11:10 Shem age 100 2 years after the flood. AM 1658 Shem born AM 1558
Noah age 502 when Shem born

 

[John146]

REFUTE THIS IF YOU CAN!

Gen 5:32


....32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
32 And Noah was five hundred and two years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.


Ge 1:27-31 Adam created AM 1 [AM = Anno Mundi = Age of Earth from creation]
Ge 5:3 Adam age 130 when Seth born AM 130
Ge 5:6 Seth age 105 when Enos born AM 235
Ge 5:9 Enos age 90 when Cainan born AM 325
Ge 5:12 Cainan age 70 when Mahalaleel born AM 395
Ge 5:15 Mahalaleel age 65 when Jared born AM 460
Ge 5:18 Jared age 162 when Enoch born AM 622
Ge 5:21 Enoch age 65 when Methuselah born AM 687
Ge 5:25 Methuselah age 187 when Lamech born AM 874
Ge 5:28 Lamech age 182 when Noah born AM 1056
Ge 7:11 Noah age 600 at onset of flood AM 1656
Ge 11:10 Shem age 100 2 years after the flood. AM 1658 Shem born AM 1558
Noah age 502 when Shem born

Your thoughts imply that Shem, Ham, and Japheth were triplets? I would disagree with this when comparing scripture to scripture.

Shem is listed first, but he is not the eldest son of Noah as Genesis 10:21 states. It seems that Japheth was the older brother of Shem. I absolutely see your point and would agree at first glance that Noah was 502 when he begat Shem. Noah was 500 years old when he begat Japheth, the eldest.

 

[Donmech]

And to the brainwashed, any answer will suffice.

Do you want to have a real discussion or do you want to trade epithets?

If God has in fact preserved his Words, and according to scripture He has, then some where today January 3,2018 there exist a Bible that not only contains His word but it is His words. IF there exist even one error it cannot be the true inspired Words of God. Do we have the originals? No, those scrolls turned to dust hundreds and thousands of years ago. Do we have preserved copies of copies of copies of the originals? For those of us who believe God, the answer is yes. If believing God when He says that He would preserve His word is brainwashing then I'm in.

 

[MarcR]

Your thoughts imply that Shem, Ham, and Japheth were triplets? I would disagree with this when comparing scripture to scripture.

Shem is listed first, but he is not the eldest son of Noah as Genesis 10:21 states. It seems that Japheth was the older brother of Shem. I absolutely see your point and would agree at first glance that Noah was 502 when he begat Shem. Noah was 500 years old when he begat Japheth, the eldest.

And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth. KJV

There is absolutely NOTHING in the text to suggest they were not born in the same year.

You have not even attempted to refute the gross mistranslation of LK 1:3

 

[johnthebaptist]

The bible is a whole, we are the prism. The clearer the prism the clearer the message.
Every part needs to be brought into focus, along with our hearts and our walk.

The closer to Jesus you walk the better you will see.

 

[Dino246]

If God has in fact preserved his Words, and according to scripture He has, then some where today January 3,2018 there exist a Bible that not only contains His word but it is His words. IF there exist even one error it cannot be the true inspired Words of God. Do we have the originals? No, those scrolls turned to dust hundreds and thousands of years ago. Do we have preserved copies of copies of copies of the originals? For those of us who believe God, the answer is yes. If believing God when He says that He would preserve His word is brainwashing then I'm in.

I appreciate the general essence of your post. However, your assertion (in bold above) claims that there must be one perfect copy somewhere (or perhaps one perfect version). That is one view of preservation, but it is not the only valid view. There is a major problem with it: nobody knows for certain which is the correct copy!

Another perfectly valid view is that God preserved His word in a multiplicity of manuscripts rather than in one copy. It takes more work to determine what the originals said, but it can be done, and for the most part has been done. That leaves us with a very reliable text, without the nagging uncertainty of "did we choose the right one?".

Your assertion, "If there exist even one error it cannot be the true inspired Words of God" sounds good... until you start looking deeper at the concept of "error". How would you know what constitutes an "error", unless you compare one copy or version with another? What would you use as the standard by which you judge? Simply asserting that one is correct (as some KJV adherents do) is logically invalid (and easily refuted).

Words, phrases and sentences don't translate cleanly between languages. Take, for example, the English phrase, "The big red dog"; if you translate it word for word into French, it would be "le grand rouge chien". However, a French person would write it "le grand chien rouge". Which is "correct"? Do the syntax and grammar of the source language trump those of the destination language, or is there more that must be considered? Consider that Greek and Hebrew are not only very different from each other, but both are very different from English as well. This is why scholars spend years learning languages so that they are equipped to tackle the challenge of translating God's word.

 

[MarcR]

Your thoughts imply that Shem, Ham, and Japheth were triplets? I would disagree with this when comparing scripture to scripture.

Shem is listed first, but he is not the eldest son of Noah as Genesis 10:21 states. It seems that Japheth was the older brother of Shem. I absolutely see your point and would agree at first glance that Noah was 502 when he begat Shem. Noah was 500 years old when he begat Japheth, the eldest.

Ge 10:21
21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.
KJV
Even if they were born in the same hour one had to come out first.

 

[lancaster]

David said in Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. It is reasonable to suppose that since God wants us to be saved that one of the most important things he would do is preserve His word as an authority and a guide to those that want to discover the ways of salvation. It doesn't matter so much what anyone's opinions are the bottom line is what does the word of God say. Rom 10 says that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. If there was no inspired word of God then there would be no faith.