Free will and God's will

[Stunnedbygrace]

Trust me when I say he’s not arrogant. We have conversed over the phone the last 4 years, and he’s not arrogant at all.

There is no man on earth who has yet achieved perfection of humility.

Not to change the subject, but I have so little time to talk with you guys in here anymore and I LOVE talking with you all and always have so many questions, but do you think perfection of heart can be achieved in this life, by the Spirit? And define what you think perfection of heart entails.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sissy, watch this thread closely. Free will is their god. They mention it more than they do God and the Christ. How many of their posts do they mention their free will with not one mention of Them?

Dude you better back off with your nonsense, You have me on ignore, then leave me alone. (please note. this is why it gets so heated. some people just can not stand to be told they may be wrong, so they attack and attack.. )

I spoke of God when I spoke of following the spirit. Adstar spoke of fearing the Lord. so he also Gave God credit, So you are proven a LIAR!

 

[blue_ladybug]

No fighting allowed here. Because I say so.. lol

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

We have the ability to choose life or death..

Deuteronomy 30: KJV
19 "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:"


Joshua 24: KJV
14"¶ Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD. {15} And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

Again it is people who are called upon to choose whom they will serve..

Your first sentence here has provoked me to hard thinking!

I have an answer but not the time to write it. I'll come back.

Thank you for talking with me and bearing with me this morning.

 

[SovereignGrace]

There is no man on earth who has yet achieved perfection of humility.

And I never said he had achieved the perfection of humility. But he’s not arrogant, either.

Not to change the subject, but I have so little time to talk with you guys in here anymore and I LOVE talking with you all and always have so many questions, but do you think perfection of heart can be achieved in this life, by the Spirit? And define what you think perfection of heart entails.

We will always be on the Potter’s wheel, being molded more and more into the image of the Christ. It’s called progressive sanctification. Some will need longer than others. But none will reach a state where the heart is perfect.

 

[1ofthem]

It is only by the Grace of God, but we have to choose to draw nigh to God, humble ourselves in his sight, repent, and submit unto him. Now this is our choice and he won’t make any do these things. So it is on us to make the choice. We are instructed to do so, though:

James 4: 5-10
Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

And I never said he had achieved the perfection of humility. But he’s not arrogant, either.



We will always be on the Potter’s wheel, being molded more and more into the image of the Christ. It’s called progressive sanctification. Some will need longer than others. But none will reach a state where the heart is perfect.

But you forgot my second question!
Define perfection of heart while on earth. Not utter perfection, but perfection of heart.

Okay getting stern and impatient looks gotta go will be back!

 

[SovereignGrace]

But you forgot my second question!
Define perfection of heart while on earth. Not utter perfection, but perfection of heart.

Okay getting stern and impatient looks gotta go will be back!

To me, perfection of heart would mean a state of sinless perfection. None can attain that whilst still in a sinful, fleshly frame.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Oops.. I thought this was the Not By Works thread.. Well, no fighting allowed there either..lol

No fighting allowed here. Because I say so.. lol

 

[SovereignGrace]

It is only by the Grace of God, but we have to choose to draw nigh to God, humble ourselves in his sight, repent, and submit unto him. Now this is our choice and he won’t make any do these things. So it is on us to make the choice. We are instructed to do so, though:

James 4: 5-10
Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Uhhhh...this is written to believers, not unbelievers.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No fighting allowed here. Because I say so.. lol

If people want to give a different view. That's fine, People want to start attacking others with things which are not true. It needs confronted. It is not fighting, it is called calling someone out.

It is amazing how some will get mad when people say things about them which are not true, (ie saying people who believe in OSAS love sin, excuse sin etc etc) but then they go and do it themselves.

 

[1ofthem]

Jeremiah 18:1-11King James Version (KJV)
18 The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.

So yeah he is the potter and we are the clay, but he gave instructions that "If" they turn unto him he would mold it into something good...He gave them a choice in the matter...Just my thoughts on it anyhow.

 

[Marcelo]

How does God's will coincide with the free will He gave us?..............................My question is, though, how do we have free will on every detail of our lives if God already knew us in our mother's womb?

Our God is the creator of a universe that is at least 93 billion light years wide and is only 13.8 billion years old. This is something I can't understand -- does that mean the Big Bang was 6.7 times faster than light speed?

Well, I don't understand creation because our father is an infinite being, and I don't understand free will vs. predestination for the same reason, but I'm sure we have free will because otherwise we wouldn't be accountable for our sins and God says we are.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your first sentence here has provoked me to hard thinking!

I have an answer but not the time to write it. I'll come back.

Thank you for talking with me and bearing with me this morning.

perfect example.. Even if she ends up disagreeing, She will not attack this person.. She will just say she will look into it, or admits she may not agree, which is fine.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is only by the Grace of God, but we have to choose to draw nigh to God, humble ourselves in his sight, repent, and submit unto him. Now this is our choice and he won’t make any do these things. So it is on us to make the choice. We are instructed to do so, though:

James 4: 5-10
Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Not enough God in here sis

 

[1ofthem]

Uhhhh...this is written to believers, not unbelievers.

Well alrighty then...Still though, whose choice is it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jeremiah 18:1-11King James Version (KJV)
18 The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.

So yeah he is the potter and we are the clay, but he gave instructions that "If" they turn unto him he would mold it into something good...He gave them a choice in the matter...Just my thoughts on it anyhow.

Amen sis

It shows they have the will to turn from God, and God will repent of the blessings, or after they eft, if they chose to repent, he will again start to make them new.

yet amazing how this is used in romans 9 to denote that man has no free will

 

[Magenta]

I am with the poster who says man is not born with a will that is free. It is born already in vicious slavery. If it weren't so, small children would not have to be taught to not bite, to not kick, to share.

Mostly what we define as free will is an amalgamation of the teaching of expected manners and societal norms and the inward desire to be accepted rather than shunned.

Self will would be a much better term to use All things proceeding from worldly ambition, the pride of life and lusts of the flesh etc, are self willed. They are solidly Biblical premises, understood to be in opposition to the will of God. The goal of the Christian is to be conformed ever more into the image of Christ, Who had submitted His human will fully to the will of the Father, though He would have rather not at least once that we know of, such as is told pre-arrest, in the garden of Gethsemane.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Well alrighty then...Still though, whose choice is it?

Those who are already saved.

 

[Depleted]

I appreciate the response. That's actually the main reasoning behind my post. I graduated last May, but didn't get hired for my first job related to my field until last month. I was only two weeks in until I got severely sick and had to miss a weeks worth of work (I work 3 12 hour night shifts, or worked since I haven't been back). Two weeks ago today actually my job called me saying they were moving me from full-time to per diem. They said the fact I was in the hospital had nothing to do with their decision (which I believe to be a lie, but that's another discussion).

God knows all of our paths from before we were even born. I don't think God spoke to my supervisor and told her to demote my status, though. That is something she did on her own. I guess part of my original question would be do other people's free will interfere with the specific will God has for us individually? Some sort of crime, for example, happens all around us. God doesn't tell one person to commit a sin on another so that His plan will be done for the one being harmed. People choose to do illegal things by their own sinful nature. How would something like that coincide with God's Will?

Larger example from the Bible again: Pharaoh.

God did not need ten plagues to set his people free. He chose ten plagues to show who he is. Dimwitted Pharaoh goes off and has his own version of free will for the first few plagues. Then, God, not being done with him or Pharaoh's peeps, THEN hardens Pharaoh's heart and continues on. So, no matter who freely chose, God got his will.

Your work problem:
As hard as this is to believe, God did not guide you go into that field of work because that field of work matches your college curriculum for what you should do after college. God has purpose for you. You specifically. His goal is to teach you two things in this life to prepare you with everything you need to know for eternal life:
1. God really, really, really loves you.
2. Trust him.

Your whole life comes down to getting those two things, so you will be ready for eternal life. AND eternal life means you get the privilege and joy of worshiping the Lord in all his glory.

There will be Pharaohs in your life choosing to do stuff that doesn't seem to be in your best interest. It doesn't matter. Ultimately, the Lord is going to set you free!

You will be Jonah -- fighting to stop God from taking you where he wants you to go. It doesn't matter ultimately. God will get you where he wants you to go. The only difference is which way are you getting there -- fish belly or ship?

You may have your stones-and-a-sling moments like David had when he faced Goliath. Cool, but ultimately, the Lord put you there to resolve that problem at that moment, and he's the one angling the trajectory.

This may be the one and only job you ever get in your field, or you might end up being very successful. No matter how that goes, that's God getting you to HIS goals.

When I was in my 20s, I too was thinking "career." I laugh at that now. I've had "careers." Quite a few of them, actually. Ultimately, I look back now and see why God did not let some perfectly good plans work out for me. I needed money. He needed me to be at the right place at the right time to help someone really important to him too -- my husband. (And hubby was tasked with taking good care of someone else the Lord loves -- me.)

Little did I know way back when that I wasn't really trying to figure out if being a housewife was my calling, it wasn't. I just needed to be home when hubby broke his back, so I could see that little want ad in the paper that would give us a place to live and something to eat, while his back mended.

When it did mend, we still had just enough to get by and get back on our feet again. And when we both got back on our feet again, who knew the most secure job in America -- a federal government job -- would end up not being secure at all. And who knew that while starting my own business, and hubby getting a free education to learn how to network computers, would end up with me becoming disabled, and then him being more disabled? Oh, yeah! God did! Because God needed me to be home, yet again, when hubby was on chemo, and then when hubby needed to be driven to the ER with a massive heart attack.

Honestly. A job is not why God put you on earth. He put you on earth to love you and teach you to trust him for eternity. All a job does is help you help others, put some food on your table, and a roof over your head, while you're in God's school learning his purposes for you.

Free will? Sure, you got it. So does everyone else. BUT God is still sovereign and decrees stuff that makes the entire universe work all the time just so he can have a people who will love and worship him eternally. Trust him. He's perfect at what he does. And he is working out even this per diem stuff out just right for you, no matter what your bosses think or do.