Gods elects

[Depleted]

I mean, Dr. Sproul has to explain that one to us when we get there. Fire hydrants?

Oh, I get it. When we were kids, it was a big thing to be able to jump over a fire hydrant without hurting your groin. Once you got to fire hydrants, then the next thing to jump over was parking meters. And after that came higher and higher fences. True joy. (Granted, I couldn't jump, but I saw the joy in my brothers' faces.)

I used to do hopscotch boards whenever I saw one on the sidewalk. And, I mean I never stopped jumping them, even as an adult. I became disabled at 44 years old, and could not jump them anymore.

Sproul is doing his fire hydrants. I want another hopscotch board. lol

 

[valiant]

let God speak for Himself.

God's Choosing and Effectual Calling


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Th 2:13-14[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] God chose you from the beginning[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]whereunto He called you[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] through our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 1:3-8[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Blessed [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]be[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]places[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] in Christ: even as H[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]e chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]that we should be holy and without blemish before Him in love: having [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto Himself,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]according to the good pleasure of His will,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved, in Whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]according to the riches of His grace, which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Eph 1:11-12[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] in Whom also we were made a heritage, having been [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]foreordained[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] according to the purpose of Him [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]who works all things after the counsel of his will; [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]to the end[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] that we should be unto the praise of His glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom 8:28-30[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] And we know that to those that love God all things work together for good, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]even[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] to those that are called according to His purpose. For those whom He entered into relationship with beforehand (proginosko, NOT prooida) He also foreordained [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]to be[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom He foreordained, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]2Ti 1:9-10[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal, but has now been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and incorruption to light through the gospel, [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]1Pe 1:1-2 [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] to[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]the elect – according to God the Father entering into relationship with them beforehand[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], in sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom 9:15-16[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] For He says to Moses, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]' So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God Who has mercy. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom 9:18-23[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] So then He has mercy on whom He will, and whom He will He hardens. You will say then to me, 'Why does He still find fault? For who withstands His will?' No but, O man, who are you who replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why did you make me thus? Or has not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel to honour, and another to dishonour? What if God, willing to show His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that He might make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy, which He before prepared unto glory. [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rom 11.7 Those who [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]were chosen[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] obtained it and the rest were hardened[/FONT]


Acts 13.48 As many as were ordained to eternal life believed

 

[celib]

You are beginning without a contextual base. This is not the way to study scripture.

The subject is election, please rebuttal from the scripture. God bless

 

[notuptome]

Anyhow, I'm out of here, going to read some Puritan writ to further my brain washing. I'll be back and more Calvinist than ever!!!!

p.s. Someone PM me when the whole thing has been settled and the anti's stop censuring God.

Typical.

I'm hearing golden calves when their little footies get stepped on.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

let God speak for Himself.

God's Choosing and Effectual Calling


Th 2:13-14 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth, whereunto He called you through our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Eph 1:3-8 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ: even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before Him in love: having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto Himself,according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved, in Whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence.


Eph 1:11-12 in Whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of his will; to the end that we should be unto the praise of His glory, we who had before hoped in Christ:


Rom 8:28-30 And we know that to those that love God all things work together for good, even to those that are called according to His purpose. For those whom He entered into relationship with beforehand (proginosko, NOT prooida) He also foreordained to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom He foreordained, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.


2Ti 1:9-10 Who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal, but has now been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and incorruption to light through the gospel,


1Pe 1:1-2 tothe elect – according to God the Father entering into relationship with them beforehand, in sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.


Rom 9:15-16 For He says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God Who has mercy.


Rom 9:18-23 So then He has mercy on whom He will, and whom He will He hardens. You will say then to me, 'Why does He still find fault? For who withstands His will?' No but, O man, who are you who replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why did you make me thus? Or has not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel to honour, and another to dishonour? What if God, willing to show His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that He might make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy, which He before prepared unto glory.


Rom 11.7 Those who were chosen obtained it and the rest were hardened


Acts 13.48 As many as were ordained to eternal life believed

Where in your philosophy is man taking responsibility for his individual sin?

If Calvinism is God choosing without man accepting his responsibility then there is no glory for God. If you are not elect according to the modern teaching of Calvinism then you cannot be saved and the grace of God the blood of Christ is of none effect no matter how bitterly you may seek it. If you are elect then no matter how wicked you become you are still destined to be saved even against your will.

So much spinning I'm getting dizzy. You must get a lot of John 16:7-11 in your gospel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Oh, I get it. When we were kids, it was a big thing to be able to jump over a fire hydrant without hurting your groin. Once you got to fire hydrants, then the next thing to jump over was parking meters. And after that came higher and higher fences. True joy. (Granted, I couldn't jump, but I saw the joy in my brothers' faces.)

I used to do hopscotch boards whenever I saw one on the sidewalk. And, I mean I never stopped jumping them, even as an adult. I became disabled at 44 years old, and could not jump them anymore.

Sproul is doing his fire hydrants. I want another hopscotch board. lol

Why would the man conceive of fire hydrants in heaven? There is no fire in heaven only in the other place. Kind of like the other guy putting logs on his burn pile. Won't be burning logs in heaven. Won't need them in the other place either as it will be plenty warm there if you know what I mean.

Don't plan on marking up the streets of Gold with your hopscotch grid either. New earth perhaps but not in heaven.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[trofimus]

So how would you begin to defend the doctrine of unconditional election?

I would probably begin in Romans.

 

[celib]

Your statement implied that the unbeliever does not commit the one unforgivable sin.

No, you implied that, only God can judge because he is the only one that knows what goes on in one's mind, do you know what the unforgivable sin is? with all the false doctrine being preached I can't blame some people being unbelievers, Christ will know who is responsible. God bless

 

[Speak2Me]

I'm going to be totally honest with you here. Your "challenge" to discuss Scripture comes across as pompous arrogance because that's what it is.

I've read some of the things you've said in other threads, briefly, but hadn't witnessed this then. But right now, you're completely smug, prideful, conceited. You're proving over and again that you're of the Romans 9:20 mind set.

Oh, the irony, the pot calling the kettle black!

 

[Speak2Me]

How is wanting to study scripture pompous and arrogant????

It's deflection, plain & simple.

 

[preacher4truth]

Oh, I get it. When we were kids, it was a big thing to be able to jump over a fire hydrant without hurting your groin. Once you got to fire hydrants, then the next thing to jump over was parking meters. And after that came higher and higher fences. True joy. (Granted, I couldn't jump, but I saw the joy in my brothers' faces.)

I used to do hopscotch boards whenever I saw one on the sidewalk. And, I mean I never stopped jumping them, even as an adult. I became disabled at 44 years old, and could not jump them anymore.

Sproul is doing his fire hydrants. I want another hopscotch board. lol

Oh, it must be a PA thing.

 

[Magenta]

No, you implied that, only God can judge because he is the only one that knows what goes on in one's mind, do you know what the unforgivable sin is? with all the false doctrine being preached I can't blame some people being unbelievers, Christ will know who is responsible. God bless

I implied nothing. I asked you a question so you could clarify, but you did not, resorting to deflection instead. I do not need to imply that unbelievers are not saved. I would outright say it You on the other hand, seem to be having trouble saying such

 

[Speak2Me]

What you should do, firstly, is apologize to all you've attempted to shame without reason especially since you denied it when the evidence to the contrary has been shown you. That's where I'd start, owning yourself. The above is simply more pompous behavior on your part.

Now why would you suppose P4T is passing up an opportunity to take someone to school, especially since it's his favorite pastime?

Methinks he knows something would be handed back to him once it's kicked off.

 

[Speak2Me]

I do apologize if anyone was offended at anything I have said. I do not regret the fact that I said it, I meant what I said. I am just sorry some found offense in it.

The truth offends a lot of people.

Nothing to be sorry for.

 

[Speak2Me]

Here's the whole thing in a nutshell and why people get so emotional over this:

- One group is dead set on proving God chose or saved them because of something they did, like responding, or whatever, in total defiance and loathing of Biblical unconditional election. This is all contrary to 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 teaching and other Scriptures. Most believe they had inherent faith and voted themselves into heaven. This is contrary to 2 Peter 1:1, Ephesians 1:19.

- The other group is dead set to prove from Scripture that God did all the saving, from choosing whom he willed to save to glorification and everything else in between, based on his purpose and will, and based in absolutely nothing in man. It is Soli Deo Gloria. This truth is witnessed throughout Scripture and is not erased by John 3:16 and a slough of "whosoever" verses no matter how hard the others try to pit Scripture against Scripture.

The fight is summed up in this: One group believes they had something to do with their salvation and reason as to why God saved them, the other group gives all the glory to God. Battling for the former over the latter is absurd to put it lightly, it is Romans 9:20. But that is what they are doing, it's a belligerency to prove they had something to do with why God chose them, or more plainly, why they are saved.

One word - STRAWMAN

 

[oldhermit]

The subject is election, please rebuttal from the scripture. God bless

You cannot isolate two verses from the surrounding context and begin at that point. However, to respond to these verses,

First all, let us use a text that does justice to the Greek text.

29"For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified."

The first mistake you are making is to assume what these verses are saying rather than allowing them to speak for themselves. These verse do not say that God predestined individuals to be saved. What it does say is that those whom he foreknew he predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son. It then says that he predestined those whom foreknew to be the first-born among many brethren. This is of course speaking of the Jews as the fist-born of the gospel. The Gentiles were soon to follow. He also predestined that they would be justified and glorified. But this nowhere says that God predestined any individuals to be saved.

 

[trofimus]

You cannot isolate two verses from the surrounding context and begin at that point. However, to respond to these verses,

First all, let us use a text that does justice to the Greek text.

29"For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified."

The first mistake you are making is to assume what these verses are saying rather than allowing them to speak for themselves. These verse do not say that God predestined individuals to be saved. What it does say is that those whom he foreknew he predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son. It then says that he predestined those whom foreknew to be the first-born among many brethren. This is of course speaking of the Jews as the fist-born of the gospel. The Gentiles were soon to follow. He also predestined that they would be justified and glorified. But this nowhere says that God predestined any individuals to be saved.

Even if you are right, tell me, how can you predestine only something and let the rest in randomness/chaos?

Any predestined thing needs predestined order in all other things. If it is not certain what you will do tomorrow, it is also not certain what you will do 2 days after, etc.

Similarly, if God predestined Israel to something, He also had to predestine everything else around to make it happen.

 

[oldhermit]

Even if you are right, tell me, how can you predestine only something and let the rest in randomness/chaos?

Any predestined thing needs predestined order in all other things. If it is not certain what you will do tomorrow, it is also not certain what you will do 2 days after, etc.

Similarly, if God predestined Israel to something, He also had to predestine everything else around to make it happen.

That is quite true. The question is not whether God had predestined but what he has predestined. Regarding Israel, God did not predestined that every genetic Jew would be saved. What he predestined was that Messiah would come through the seed of Abraham. The fate of the individual is in the hand of the individual.

 

[celib]

Where in your philosophy is man taking responsibility for his individual sin?

If Calvinism is God choosing without man accepting his responsibility then there is no glory for God. If you are not elect according to the modern teaching of Calvinism then you cannot be saved and the grace of God the blood of Christ is of none effect no matter how bitterly you may seek it. If you are elect then no matter how wicked you become you are still destined to be saved even against your will.

So much spinning I'm getting dizzy. You must get a lot of John 16:7-11 in your gospel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I have never read about Calvinism, if Calvinism teaches that you cannot be saved if your not an elect then Calvinism is very wrong, salvation is for whomsoever will accept Christ.
When discussing Scripture Calvin should not be part of the discussion, the subject I was discussing is election not Calvinism. God bless

 

[DevotiontoBible]

They stood by him when satan rebelled. God bless

??? What are you talking about?