Calvinists: The Just Shall Live BEFORE Having Faith

[DevotiontoBible]

I pointed out this chapter earlier. To have faith in God means one is justified in the sight of God. One can not be justified, declared righteous in His sight, and be devoid of His Spirit. Yet Devo(whip it good....sorry...flashback to my childhood) avers this very ideology.

Very disturbing belief he has.

V. 39 says they didn't receive what was promised (the Holy Spirit)
⌊Christ paid the price⌋ so that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to all the people of the world through Jesus Christ and we would receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Galatians 3:14 GW
https://bible.com/bible/70/gal.3.14.GW

 

[SovereignGrace]

V. 39 says they didn't receive what was promised (the Holy Spirit)
⌊Christ paid the price⌋ so that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to all the people of the world through Jesus Christ and we would receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Galatians 3:14 GW
https://bible.com/bible/70/gal.3.14.GW

Again, the OT saints had faith in God. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit. If they were saved, they were saved by grace through faith. There's no other way ppl can be saved. If one is saved, they have the Spirit residing in them.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

The OT saints had faith and faith is a fruit of the Spirit.[Galatians 5:22]

One can not possess the fruit of the Spirit w/o also possessing the Spirit.

Heb 11:39 says they didn't have the Holy Spirit yet:

Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith.
Galatians 3:14 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/gal.3.14.NLT

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I pointed out this chapter earlier. To have faith in God means one is justified in the sight of God. One can not be justified, declared righteous in His sight, and be devoid of His Spirit. Yet Devo(whip it good....sorry...flashback to my childhood) avers this very ideology.

Very disturbing belief he has.

Can you please show me where i made this statement

Originally Posted by Eternally-Gratefull

God did not elect anyone and left everything to randomness

the only place it was posted that I can see is from a person who made it up.

Can you show you have a pint of humility and back up where I have stated something I have NEVER SAID, or are you going to continue to show you have no humility whatsoever.

I know he has me on ignore. But can some one show him this, because if he does not remove that from his signature, I will take further action!

 

[Depleted]

You and EG need not be so judgmental about my judgement on preacher4truth judgement on post#6 about devotiontobible's judgement.

It is also my judgement that asinine is not a "cuss" word.

BTW, did you also report preacher4truth's use of the same word on post 6 or are you selective about who you tattle on.

Wow, dude! Egomaniac much?

Post #576, and so far all you've said is "look at those stupid Calvinists" and this! Is the sum total of your very personal gospel? Only you are worth reading, even if you say absolutely nothing useful, related, or only about you? And how dare anyone say anything against the wonder that is you, right?

Do you live in a stadium? Because with an ego your size, I cannot image it would fit in a normal home.

Clue: When you want to give me your opinion, also give me five buck. Your opinion is worthless, but at least the five bucks can get me to Jersey and back again.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ha! You're right. I am agreeing with John. John the Beloved, not John145. lol

Yes, Jesus' faith is imputed on us. In this exchange, we give the Lord our sin. He took that on and died our death for us. And he gave us his righteousness, his goodness, his faith, his trust, his love, his goodness. He took on what is evil about us because he is what is good about us. Imputed. Good word!

By the way, I wanted to thank you for having a civilized, non judgmental conversation, even if we never come to an agreement, and must disagree, It is refreshing.

 

[preacher4truth]

Can you please show me where i made this statement

Originally Posted by Eternally-Gratefull

God did not elect anyone and left everything to randomness

the only place it was posted that I can see is from a person who made it up.

Can you show you have a pint of humility and back up where I have stated something I have NEVER SAID, or are you going to continue to show you have no humility whatsoever.

I know he has me on ignore. But can some one show him this, because if he does not remove that from his signature, I will take further action!

You said it or it wouldn't be in his signature. Not trying to say anything to ignite your fuse, just saying he isn't being dishonest. The thing is you said it, and have edited it out, right? Nonetheless it does reflect your beliefs.

 

[John146]

The OT saints had faith and faith is a fruit of the Spirit.[Galatians 5:22]

One can not possess the fruit of the Spirit w/o also possessing the Spirit.

They didn't have the faith of Christ and according to Galatians 3, it was not even available to them.

Galatians 3
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

All those in Hebrews 11 had faith, their own faith to live by. They did not have the faith of Jesus Christ because it was not available until after Jesus' resurrection.

 

[Depleted]

I don't fully understand Calvansim and it's tenants.
As a result my response may across as stupid and uneducated. Not unusual for me.

We know who saves and that is Jesus.

The new covenant is A.D. the period from when Jesus walked the earth as a man.
The old covenant is B.C. the period where his did not walk in the earth as a man.

Are God and Jesus not one?


If so even in the OC if they believe in God then defacto they believe in Jesus.

God promised a saviour a redeemer.


In the OC, Those who believed in God and walked in his ways knew that the redeemer would come.

Therefore the just shall live by his faith: True righteousness before God is linked to genuine faith in God.

Surely then those who live by faith do so when they place their faith in Jesus (A.D.) And in God (B.C.)

In the NC this faith is birthed by the Holy Spirit.
No idea how though in the OC.

So faith has a starting point.
If that is the case who started it? Surely the Holy Soirit.
Given that the Father, Son & Holy Spirit were the beginning then would they not know who would come to faith?

Yes I think the do.
Problem is we do not.
That's why we do not judge who is saved, will be saved or is not saved.

If we look at Jonah.
He would not go

Jonah 4:2
2 So he prayed to the Lord, and said, “Ah, Lord, was not this what I said when I was still in my country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who relents from doing harm.


Jonah 4:10-11


10 But the Lord said, “You have had pity on the plant for which you have not labored, nor made it grow, which came up in a night and perished in a night. 11 And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left—and much livestock?”

To me God knows who will repent.
As I said I don't.

That's why we should be like Jesus, who said

John 6:39-40
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 10:27-30
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”


Willing to be corrected, in love of course

Just so you know, you don't have to understand Calvinism at all for that. What you just gave fits into the beliefs of all true Christians - Cal or no-Cal.

Sooo, yupper. You got it.

And, just so you know, I suspect you're pre-Cal. You're leaning toward Calvinism even before understanding what in the world that means. Not saying that from what you wrote here, because already explained what you wrote here. Just a general feeling I have from reading your many posts. Weird thing happens when we want to understand the whole of the Bible. "Systematic Theology" starts making sense, and no one systematizes quite like Calvinists. We come close to going OCD on it. lol

BTW, I also don't think you're dumb. I consider you smarter-than-me.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You said it or it wouldn't be in his signature. Not trying to say anything to ignite your fuse, just saying he isn't being dishonest. The thing is you said it, and have edited it out, right? Nonetheless it does reflect your beliefs.

Someone else questioned him about it, too. Can't remember who it was, though. :-/

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You said it or it wouldn't be in his signature. Not trying to say anything to ignite your fuse, just saying he isn't being dishonest. The thing is you said it, and have edited it out, right? Nonetheless it does reflect your beliefs.

I did not say it, It was posted by Valient in post 16 of the thread, romans 9 I opened. He just copied it. (He made up the quote. it was not an actual quote of mine)

And I never said he was being untrustworthy, I asked valiant to prove I said it, I asked ANYONE to prove I said it, No one did, because no one could. BECAUSE I NEVER SAID IT.

once again, I am giving him the opportunity to prove I said it or remove it, or I will take action.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Someone else questioned him about it, too. Can't remember who it was, though. :-/

No one questioned me about it, because I never said it, HE MADE UP THE QUOTE.

Look at the quote, it was did not even have the mark which you could hit to look at post. because he did nto qute me, he made it up.

 

[Depleted]

That would be tenet Bill.

Then what are tenants' tenets called?

 

[preacher4truth]

I did not say it, It was posted by Valient in post 16 of the thread, romans 9 I opened. He just copied it. (He made up the quote. it was not an actual quote of mine)

And I never said he was being untrustworthy, I asked valiant to prove I said it, I asked ANYONE to prove I said it, No one did, because no one could. BECAUSE I NEVER SAID IT.

once again, I am giving him the opportunity to prove I said it or remove it, or I will take action.

If this is true, he was only crystallizing your beliefs with a concise statement.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

here is the link to the thread where it was posted.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/162538-romans-9-really-hard.html

I challenge again for anyone to show where I said this!

I will not ask again

 

[Depleted]

No, You have no defense.

1. You were not discussing the topic with ANYONE, this you had no reason to jump into a conversation and just attack anyone
2. All you did was attack someone, based on no given reason, only than to attack his faith.
3. I do not care who you are, if I do it, I am in sin, and I need corrected.

As for what Precher said, I stopped paying attention to what he said awhile ago. If you have a problem with what he said Quote his comment, Show how you disagree with his comment, and then move on. You do not do it the way you did it. Teenagers do that kind of stuff. it should not be coming from Mature believers in christ.

A shame really. He can be funny at times. (Got to check out the post he made right after you said that. I think you'll laugh.)

And, he has good points sometimes.

I see you both as quite a like. If you agreed on the theology, you'd probably be good friends. lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If this is true, he was only crystallizing your beliefs with a concise statement.

lol.. So I never said it, thus his quote was a fabrication as I said.

And your perfectly fine with someone putting me in quotes as saying something I have never said?

By the way, I have never said such a thing, nor have I ever hinted at such a thing,

 

[1ofthem]

I knew about the concept of God, that some people did believe He existed. I never did believe He existed. One day I read the gospel (because I watched a show on Nostradamus and thought Jesus might be the same, where people believed He could tell the future, but I wasn't sure about if He predicted the future or not). So I was looking for if He told the future.

I wasn't sure where to find The part of the book where Jesus came in so I started at the beginning but I saw the literary device of fairytale, even down to the poisoned piece of fruit and the prince and princess, although I thought it was a poorly written fairytale.

So then I skipped to the end. I recognized the literary device there right away too. It was science fiction, but once again, I thought it poorly written science fiction., but it piqued my interest as to why some of the words were in red ink. So I found more red ink and figured out that the red ink had led me to the part I wanted, to see if Jesus said anything about the future.

So I began reading where the red ink started. Sometime between Mathew and john, I suddenly saw that impossible as it seemed, it was the truth. I was very distraught. Not about sin. I still didn't even understand exactly what was sin and what wasn't. I was so distraught because I had ignored God all my life because I hadn't even believed He existed.so when I was on the floor shrieking and breaking into a million pieces, my only thought, over and over again was: I'm so sorry I didn't know I didn't know oh my god I'm so sorry.

So if you need me now to say it didn't happen in one moment that I could see, I can't. I saw in one moment when the moment before I hadn't seen.

Good testimony sister. I enjoyed reading it. It sounds to me like you were looking for Jesus even though you didn’t know it at that time, but God was drawing you. You started out reading it as a fairy tale and could have just stopped there, but you chose to continue reading and were saved…Amen God is merciful….

I would like to try to give you another perspective on it, and hopeful clarify what is being said by a difference in “belief and faith.”

I’ve always believed that Jesus was real and that he died for sins, as long as I can remember. Even though, I believed he was real I wasn’t saved. I think God was conditioning me and working with me for quite some time. Then when he began to draw me and started convicting me, it still wasn’t an automatic thing. I think I went through it for about a week or longer.

I felt God pulling on my heart and wanted to be saved, but I also felt the enemy trying to pull me back and keep a hold on me. It was a spiritual battle so intense, I felt like I was going to lose my mind, at times. I felt God drawing me and I wanted to be saved, but the enemy keep telling me that I wasn’t good enough and God didn’t want me, HE only “chose” certain people, and I could never be saved because I just wasn’t good enough.

But God kept, telling me to come, all I had to do was put my trust and faith in his Son and give it all to Him and he would save me. So I finally stepped out on faith (not just believing that he was real, but trusting and having Faith in him), asked him to forgive me, cleanse me and come into my life. And when I did, He saved me and gave me a joy and peace like I had never known before.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A shame really. He can be funny at times. (Got to check out the post he made right after you said that. I think you'll laugh.)

And, he has good points sometimes.

I see you both as quite a like. If you agreed on the theology, you'd probably be good friends. lol

I am good with people who do not agree with my philosophy, one doe snot have to agree wiht me to be my friend. I am saddened you may think so.

and no. we do not see things even closely resembling each other.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You said it or it wouldn't be in his signature. Not trying to say anything to ignite your fuse, just saying he isn't being dishonest. The thing is you said it, and have edited it out, right? Nonetheless it does reflect your beliefs.

I owe him an apology. I reread it and it was a response to trofimus. I will remove it from my sig.

But God did not elect nations, either.