Calvinists: The Just Shall Live BEFORE Having Faith
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God is the One who prepares the heart to receive the word, the gospel. How do ppl know they have sinned against a thrice holy God? The gospel. So as the one hears the gospel and receives it, they had their heart prepared by God. All of this is through the gospel. The Spirit brings ppl to saving faith through the means of the gospel.
Natural revelation does not do this. Only the gospel can.
Natural revelation does not do this. Only the gospel can.
But to say God uses external sources, and not the word, to soften hearts, is not Sola Scriptura. Salvation also includes the work of grace wrought on the heart by God. Softening of the heart is also a grace of God. And all this work, from softening the heart unto conversion, is via the word.
That's Sola Scriptura.
That's Sola Scriptura.
I have a thought on why we don't see those amazing things happening today from your last paragraph. I think its because we are the church He said to: you have a little strength. We are big on doctrine but small on the radical trust that would see those miracles.
I have never seen a miraculous healing. I don't go the direction of saying, well then, because I have never seen such a miracle, God no longer does such miracles.
Instead, I think it is because I don't yet have the radical trust that would see them.
And He could not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.
And Paul, seeing that he had the trust/ faith to be healed...
Lord, I DO believe, please help my unbelief!
I think we hit some blocks, mostly by accepting the teachings of men as fact and then repeating them ( such as, God isnt doing those big miracles any more), and can take counsel of His words to another church also: strengthen what little remains.
When I don't see those radical miracles they saw, I think its a problem of trust rather than thinking God just stopped doing huge miracles.
And no, that doesn't mean I think His will is to heal everyone of every sickness. Sometimes we learn the obedience of a more radical trust through the things we suffer.
Perhaps not right away. But we are not to take what we see around us as the criteria for truth. As far as God is concerned the Gospel is the "seed" of the New Birth and the "power of God unto salvation", while the Holy Spirit is the Divine Agent who uses the Gospel to draw men to Christ. It may be immediately, and it may be after some time. But that is not the issue. We are commanded to sow the seed of the Gospel, and God gives the increase.
I have a thought on why we don't see those amazing things happening today from your last paragraph. I think its because we are the church He said to: you have a little strength. We are big on doctrine but small on the radical trust that would see those miracles."
I liked your post God bless. this part i would suggest maybe those things arent happening in peoples churches, because people arent teaching the same Gospel that produced those things to begin with. Jesus always connects something to the promise of those things, those promises and those things that were done later were all made to Jesus disciples, meaning those who believed He was the Christ, and therefore understood His words were Gods words of salvation Long promised.
a disciple is a follower, One who believes in the views and ways of a teacher, followers of ones teachings. always he connects the holy spirit, to His doctrine as do the apostels. many christians today, have came to a different Gospel that actually changes the only Gospel the One that produced all of the powerful witnesses of the spirit in signs and miracles. those things were always done through follwers of Jesus, those who sought to be like the Son of God. who believed the things He taught were Gods answer to the condemnation of the Law upon sinners. Jesus actually told them in His words, that if they followed His words, God would do many greeat things through them.
we dont have to be a perfect follower who never falls or gets stuck and has to be pruned a bit, we Just have to trust His doctrine because we trust Him having our faith in Him, and accept His teachings as Gods will. if we do that faith will move us to begin practicing them because Jesus teaches us to put them into practice. How much do we really trust Jesus Christ and the things that He explained about God to man? He is the savior, the Only way, truth and Life" we have to trust Jesus words, they are the words of Life.....this is why we have to believe He is the Christ, he was to be sent with the word of Life and salvation.
john 6:68 " Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life."
I liked your post God bless. this part i would suggest maybe those things arent happening in peoples churches, because people arent teaching the same Gospel that produced those things to begin with. Jesus always connects something to the promise of those things, those promises and those things that were done later were all made to Jesus disciples, meaning those who believed He was the Christ, and therefore understood His words were Gods words of salvation Long promised.
a disciple is a follower, One who believes in the views and ways of a teacher, followers of ones teachings. always he connects the holy spirit, to His doctrine as do the apostels. many christians today, have came to a different Gospel that actually changes the only Gospel the One that produced all of the powerful witnesses of the spirit in signs and miracles. those things were always done through follwers of Jesus, those who sought to be like the Son of God. who believed the things He taught were Gods answer to the condemnation of the Law upon sinners. Jesus actually told them in His words, that if they followed His words, God would do many greeat things through them.
we dont have to be a perfect follower who never falls or gets stuck and has to be pruned a bit, we Just have to trust His doctrine because we trust Him having our faith in Him, and accept His teachings as Gods will. if we do that faith will move us to begin practicing them because Jesus teaches us to put them into practice. How much do we really trust Jesus Christ and the things that He explained about God to man? He is the savior, the Only way, truth and Life" we have to trust Jesus words, they are the words of Life.....this is why we have to believe He is the Christ, he was to be sent with the word of Life and salvation.
john 6:68 " Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life."
it actually can be much clearer if you read whats being said, one passage doesnt set itself apart from the others, just like you communicate a point and it may take you 2 paragraphs, if someone snags one line and plucks it out of your message it can be pretty murky to understand.
The Word of God is the Light and life of men, the Word from Heaven that was kept hidden until the appointed time of dalvation, manifest in Jesus Christ. its a contradiction to have faith in Jesus, and decline to accept His words on the matter.
this word bears record in Heaven it is Gods Word.
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. "
john 3 : He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
Jesus is the word from Heaven. He was teaching the word from God in Heaven.
john 18 " Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven
john 6:38 " .For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
john 17 "These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me."
john 8 " And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. 25Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. 27They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. 28Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and thatI do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. 29And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him. 30As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father."
Jesus said everything we need to know about salvation, its not understood if every scripture is made to support something it is not saying in context. the Words fo the Christ, are the very Ones we have to accept about salvation. we do have to believe in Jesus, this doesnt then exclude all the One we have to believe in , said to believe and do . hes able to save us if we come to God through Him, His way is the Only way ever offered.
This is what happens when you view the bible through Calvin colored glasses.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Christ illuminates every man providing them with the ability to respond to the gospel. In John 3:19-21 we see mans response.
In context John 1:11 is speaking to Israel as the elect peoples who should have seen Messiah. Through the rejection of Christ by His own the blessing of the gospel was opened to all men.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Christ illuminates every man providing them with the ability to respond to the gospel. In John 3:19-21 we see mans response.
In context John 1:11 is speaking to Israel as the elect peoples who should have seen Messiah. Through the rejection of Christ by His own the blessing of the gospel was opened to all men.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Okay you win. There were no unbelievers present that day in Jerusalem. There were also no foreigners. 
In the context of Acts 2 you must remember that the Jews were dispersed through occupation and were under Roman rule. These dispersed Jews did make extreme effort to return to Jerusalem to worship at the temple.
I'm simply concerned that we do not see these Jewish feast days as parties. They were part of worship and were worthy of the sacrifice and hardship involved to get to the temple to worship.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I said you win!!
Even though I think it's a little silly to expect that there were no gentiles, Romans, Syrians, etc., present in Jerusalem that day to hear the message being proclaimed. Like they locked all the gates, kicked any Romans and others out, and made you prove you were jewish before you could enter! It's just not any kind of common sense to me.
Even though I think it's a little silly to expect that there were no gentiles, Romans, Syrians, etc., present in Jerusalem that day to hear the message being proclaimed. Like they locked all the gates, kicked any Romans and others out, and made you prove you were jewish before you could enter!
It's just not any kind of common sense to me.
I said you win!!
Even though I think it's a little silly to expect that there were no gentiles, Romans, Syrians, etc., present in Jerusalem that day to hear the message being proclaimed. Like they locked all the gates, kicked any Romans and others out, and made you prove you were jewish before you could enter! It's just not any kind of common sense to me.
Even though I think it's a little silly to expect that there were no gentiles, Romans, Syrians, etc., present in Jerusalem that day to hear the message being proclaimed. Like they locked all the gates, kicked any Romans and others out, and made you prove you were jewish before you could enter!
It's just not any kind of common sense to me.
E
Sorry, But John stated plainly, God gave the authority, power ONLY to those who received him, to become Gods children.
Becoming Gods children is being adopted. and being born again.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: [SUP]13 [/SUP]who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
You see what separated the two groups. It was NOT one was born again the other was not. It WAS threat one (the ones he CALLED HIS OWN did not receive him, but those who DID receive him (whoever that may be)
They were born BY receiving him by the WILL OF GOD
what is the will of God:
John 6: [SUP]8 [/SUP]For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. [SUP]39 [/SUP]This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. (eternal security) [SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” (Believe in the name of Jesus and you will be saved, eat his flesh (chew on his words) and you will live forever, never die, etc etc)
How are we NOT born again (given the power to become sons) according to John?
1. By blood (being born into a jewish or christian family does not save you)
2. By the will of the flesh, I can not say, I am saved, because I will it, and magically I am saved and going to heaven.
3. By the will of man, I can not will my children to salvation, or my friend, or my parents or anyone else.
It's more the big picture than using scripture in the way you demand here.
It's more of a wonderment that comes on you sometimes when something you think was awful can actually be seen, when you look backwards, to have been God, where you didn't see Him. It's like you turn around and look back over the situation from start to finish and you just slightly catch a glance of the fringe of His robe, His back as He's walking away.
I guess if I had to pick a verse, it would be either, we only see the very fringes of His robe/ the outer edges of His way, or, oh my gosh, surely God was here, in this place, in this situation, and I didn't even know it!
It's more of a wonderment that comes on you sometimes when something you think was awful can actually be seen, when you look backwards, to have been God, where you didn't see Him. It's like you turn around and look back over the situation from start to finish and you just slightly catch a glance of the fringe of His robe, His back as He's walking away.
I guess if I had to pick a verse, it would be either, we only see the very fringes of His robe/ the outer edges of His way, or, oh my gosh, surely God was here, in this place, in this situation, and I didn't even know it!
I think there are really quite a few passages that speak of what stunned is speaking about brother.
[h=1]John 6:44New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][FONT="]44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Certainly part of that "drawing" is preparing a heart through the need of a Savior, to receive The gospel and receive a NEW Heart.
I think that is the juxtoposition Jesus lays out in Matthew 5. In the beatitudes He first speaks about the type of heart that can receive the fulfillment of the Law, which is Him.
He then describes the heart that is hard, that cannot receive Him, that tries to live a life of righteousness apart from Him. He does this in extreme ways by showing just how absolutely perfect a person must be to attain Heaven on their work.
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[h=1]John 6:44New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][FONT="]44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Certainly part of that "drawing" is preparing a heart through the need of a Savior, to receive The gospel and receive a NEW Heart.
I think that is the juxtoposition Jesus lays out in Matthew 5. In the beatitudes He first speaks about the type of heart that can receive the fulfillment of the Law, which is Him.
He then describes the heart that is hard, that cannot receive Him, that tries to live a life of righteousness apart from Him. He does this in extreme ways by showing just how absolutely perfect a person must be to attain Heaven on their work.
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