Calvinists: The Just Shall Live BEFORE Having Faith

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Nope. I said those that love God have been(already happened) born of Him. Until the new birth, they hated Him.

Well to bad for them, they have no hope of being justified, they will remain dead in their sin.

We will hae to agree to disagree. Thanks for the pleasant conversation. But we will never agree.

I know your still my brother though. We have the same gospel.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
The Holy Spirit draws ppl through the word. That's what sola scriptura is. He does not draw via clouds, sky, moon,stars,sun, iow, natural revelation.
The HS draws any way he desires.

Your limiting the HS, He will not go against his word. So sola scripture is not affected. he will always go by his word.
 
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He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.[John 1:11-13]

Now, who were the ones who receieved the Christ? Those who were born of God. Those who were not born of Him did not receive Him because they hated Him. Those who love God have been born of Him.[1 John 4:7]
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.[John 1:11-13]

Now, who were the ones who receieved the Christ? Those who were born of God. Those who were not born of Him did not receive Him because they hated Him. Those who love God have been born of Him.[1 John 4:7]

Who did he give this right to?

To those who recieved him. Even to those who believed in his name.

No one can will themselves to heaven, people recieve in christ are not willin gthemselves to heaven. If Jesus did not die, if the HS did not convict, if the gift was never offered. All the faith in the world would do you no good.
 
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The HS draws any way he desires.

Your limiting the HS, He will not go against his word. So sola scripture is not affected. he will always go by his word.
He does not draw outside the word of God. Paul said God chose the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe.[1 Cor. 1:21] Faith comes from hearing the word of God.[Romans 10:17] Then it says after you have heard the gospel of your salvation and believed, then you're sealed with the promise of the Holy Spirit. He draws via the word of God.[Ephesians 1:13]
 
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Who did he give this right to?

To those who recieved him. Even to those who believed in his name.

No one can will themselves to heaven, people recieve in christ are not willin gthemselves to heaven. If Jesus did not die, if the HS did not convict, if the gift was never offered. All the faith in the world would do you no good.
But its only those who are first birthed by God who received Him. God must first give the new birth before anyone will receive Him.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
He does not draw outside the word of God. Paul said God chose the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe.[1 Cor. 1:21] Faith comes from hearing the word of God.[Romans 10:17] Then it says after you have heard the gospel of your salvation and believed, then you're sealed with the promise of the Holy Spirit. He draws via the word of God.[Ephesians 1:13]
I never denied any of this. Please stop saying I do.

I am talking about softening a persons heart. God does not need the word to do this.
 
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Being a missionary baptist, I have had the pleasure of speaking with a few missionaries. Granted, none witnessed this first handed, they said they had other missionaries tell them what you've been told.

I totally reject it. God speaks to us via His word. I don't believe these extra-biblical accounts at all.
I kind of do believe them...there's an example of this in the NT isn't there? I'm going on memory but...an apostle was told to go to a certain mans house and they were waiting for him. Was it Cornelius? I have to look it up.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
But its only those who are first birthed by God who received Him. God must first give the new birth before anyone will receive Him.

It does not say this in the passage you used.
It says he gave those who recieved him the right to be children of God. Nothing more nothing less. Children of God are those who are born of God. It says they were given this right by recieving him.
 
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It does not say this in the passage you used.
It says he gave those who recieved him the right to be children of God. Nothing more nothing less. Children of God are those who are born of God. It says they were given this right by recieving him.
But those who received Him were the same ones who were born of Him.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
But those who received Him were the same ones who were born of Him.
It does nto say this, It says those who recieved him, he gave thee POWER to become sons of God.

The greek word used is the word which means power. Authority, right. God empowered the people who recieved him so they could be born again. He did nto empower them first, then they recieved him.
 
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I kind of do believe them...there's an example of this in the NT isn't there? I'm going on memory but...an apostle was told to go to a certain mans house and they were waiting for him. Was it Cornelius? I have to look it up.
Cornelius and Peter. You can't use that account for what goes on today. This was written in what many called the apolstolic age. Ppl were being raised from the dead, ppl were healed by the Apostles' shadow, Paul's hankerchief(gross misapplying of prayer cloths), &c. Things happened then that no longer happen now.

When's the last time you saw a corpse raised from the dead? When's the last time a shadow healed the sick? How about a prayer cloth healing someone? If you think Cornelius' account is viable today, you have to accept the otheraccounts as well,seeing they happen during the same time.
 
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Cornelius and Peter. You can't use that account for what goes on today. This was written in what many called the apolstolic age. Ppl were being raised from the dead, ppl were healed by the Apostles' shadow, Paul's hankerchief(gross misapplying of prayer cloths), &c. Things happened then that no longer happen now.

When's the last time you saw a corpse raised from the dead? When's the last time a shadow healed the sick? How about a prayer cloth healing someone? If you think Cornelius' account is viable today, you have to accept the otheraccounts as well,seeing they happen during the same time.
Exactly! No one can claim the same things as Peter and what happened with Cornelius simply because these things were written in the Word and given authority in the Word. Anything else is extra-biblical.

I still want to see where Timothy was told by Paul that he had enough faith to save himself before he heard of Christ, or however he put it. Simply made up nonsense!
 
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And that is why we should simply believe the Word of God and reject the doctrines of men. Once again, here is how saving faith is generated in human hearts (Rom 10:17):

FAITH COMETH BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD (ALSO CALLED THE GOSPEL).

But this is too simple for those who prefer a complicated and convoluted Gospel.

Some grow up hearing the gospel and that hearing doesn't result in belief. But God knows when each of us is ready for love. :)
 
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This thought worries me, Romans 1 is quite clear.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

This makes it clear. God did not hide the truth from us, We hid it from ourselves. And suprised it. Thats why we hae no excuse, If this is wrong, we can cast the book of romans out, it is not trustworthy. Which would make paul questionable
And the verse in contrast to this one? We have to take them together or we are just choosing one and rejecting one. The verse in contrast to says the god of this world has blinded men. Should I choose that verse and reject the one you gave and then we each put on our boxing gloves? Or should we accept both as true and ask God for wisdom on the matter?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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The Holy Spirit draws ppl through the word. That's what sola scriptura is. He does not draw via clouds, sky, moon,stars,sun, iow, natural revelation.
That is NOT what Sola Scriptura is.

Sola Scriptura = Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian.
 
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Yes, there are different kinds of faith, thank you.,

Amen, it will never be destroyed, Because unlike our wife, our husband, our parents or even our freinds.

God never lets us down, he is always faithful, He can always be relied on and trusted, and he continues to prove his faithfulness every time we try to test him.

That is why the thought that a man who is born of God can lose faith in God is one of the most illogical things I have ever heard. And why I question if someone actually believes this if they have ever found God, because I do Not think if they did,. They would even contimplate that this could even happen.
I used to think it. And that's AFTER I met God! I believe I was wrong now.
 
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I really do not think the Jewish feast days were for amusement or recreational purposes. The one exception might be Purim. Travel was difficult and expensive because it required time away from the subsistence living that the apostolic times demanded.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Okay you win. There were no unbelievers present that day in Jerusalem. There were also no foreigners. :)